Uh oh. Parental overreach?

[Questor]

Since he was little my son planned to go into the military. Now that he'll be entering college in just over a year I'm talking to him more about life style and how he wants to live. I have never said anything about the military up to now except three things:
1) They're always looking for good people
2) When you're in, they own you and your only choice is to finish your duty to your contract.
3) When I was young it was just after the Viet Nam war and a lot of guys were leaving the military. It was not a good time to enter, so I didn't.

Within the past couple of months I have been trying to get him to plan where he wants to be and how to live during in five, 10, and 20 years. This was to get him to see life in the context of the time he has to live it.

I told him that he'll be 22 when he gets out of college, if he goes into the military as an officer he'd probably be there about six years. Is that how you want to spend your 20s?

In these talks I have always told him that I do not want to interfere with his dreams, but I want him to think through the important issues of life.

Shortly after I pointed out the years committed to the military, he dropped the idea altogether. He now has no interest in going into the military.

I still think I did what I should have done, but I really think I helped kill a dream, and I regret that.

[beerbelly]

It don't surprise me you didn't want your son in the military. Most liberals don't.
                                         Beerbelly

[GRIMJIM]

My son has also shown interest in going into the military. I however have been encouraging him.

Why so against the military?

He is thinking of the coast guard.

My cousin has been his inspiration. 42 and retiring next year on a full pension.

I personally regret not going in.

[Questor]

Where did I say I was against him going into the military? All I told him was to consider how he will use his time.  If he were to go into the military I think he would be fulfilling a long-held dream and I would be at peace with that decision. I offered to take him for a tour of West Point-- he could get in if he wanted to. He's just the type they want in leadership positions.

[magooch]

I would keep in mind that the "military" encompasses a very wide range of conditions, circumstances and opportunities.  The way that private enterprise seems to be headed these days, I think the military offers some huge benefits that are becoming rare in the private sector.  

That said though, it must also be kept in mind that the primary reason to go into the military is to serve your country.  If that happens to also work to your advantage along the way, so much the better.

[WylieKy]

I told him that he'll be 22 when he gets out of college, if he goes into the military as an officer he'd probably be there about six years. Is that how you want to spend your 20s?

This is the only part I don't understand...  The connotation I read from this is...Do you want to party or do you want to serve your country? Sound like he chose party...  Which is 100% within his right. I currently have 3 cousins under 25 serving...and somehow they still find ways to party!    Actually 2.  One was discharged about 4 months ago.  He caught a piece of an IED in the leg and threw several blood clots.  He's fine, but will be on Kumadin *sp? for the rest of his life. 60% disability from DoD but no work limits.

[Questor]

I don't think partying is the motive. He's smart about how he uses his time. I think that's why he was alarmed to see that he might be committed to college and a multi-year contract starting at age 18 and ending at almost age 30. I think that length of committment is what spooked him.  I can't say that I blame him. It'll be interesting to see whether he reconsiders. He's really considering his options now and it will be interesting to see what he ends up with.

[Sourdough]

I personally think every one should be required to serve a minimum of three years.  Oh, but how about the conscientious objectors you say, well give them clerical duty, health care, or move them into maintenance.

[slim rem 7]

 questar you walked into it bud.. i ll follow you.. my son  has degrees from unc-c that point him at a career in law enforcement..
 then one day a fella from alstate offered him way more than he could turn dn.. from that he now owns his own insurance adjustment agency, with 6 ,last i counted agents,,on call to some major company or something ..it changes all the time.. but to my point..
 i use to dread him being an highway patrolman an having to walk up to car loads of drunks an such at midnight..i knew real mean men.. i knew they killim without thinking a thing about it..i was glad when he went into insurance.. having said that..every chance i get i tell the bit about the midnight stops to a law officer i meet.. tellim just how much i appreciate good honest law enforcers..slim
 ps,, i didn t advise him either way,but now hes a money glut,sorta..
better to be in service to you fellow men.. but hes got six men working ,plus office staff ,so hes alrite..

[Questor]

I don't agree with that, Sourdough. It would be a great way to get a lot of people despising the military. I think you have to want to do it.

[Cement Man]

It is a parent's job to try and lay out some facts and nurture good decision making in their children.  I think that comes with telling "both sides" of any story, or as many sides as are necessary to put things in the fullest and truest perspective.

Two sides of life are giving and getting.  In the case of military service, most find that giving to something bigger than themselves - country/team/comrades results in getting and achieving something you cannot buy, do, or get anywhere else and something you would not trade for anything else. 

My only regret about the military is that I didn't do a better job of it.

[rockbilly]

I spent twenty-three years, eight months, and thirteen days active duty military; I retired with full benefits in 1977.  In 1980, I accepted a civil service job working with aircraft and stayed for twenty-six years, retiring with another full pension.  I never regretted a moment of the time I spent; even the hard times were a great learning experience.

The military IS NOT FOR EVERONE!  If you have trouble following orders, can not adhere to strict discipline, need the luxuries of home, and can not work under adverse conditions then I suggest you seek employment elsewhere.  If you can adjust to these conditions then the military is a great learning experience and helps prepares a person for anything they may face in the outside community. 

I think now is a bad time for any kid stepping out of high school or collage to expect a first class high paying job as a new employee in the civilian world. With the current economic circumstances the military is a good place to grow and prepare for a better life afterwards.

[Singleshotsam]

Questor,

My father was in the ARMY when Vietnam first broke out.  I was planning on going into the ARMY to become a helicoptor pilot right after I graduated.  I also had an relative when I was in high school who was fixing to retire from the ARMY.  He had a job lined up at the USPS and was going to be able to retire twice.

Long story short.  I let my father talk me into going to heating and air conditioning school.  It is a choice that I really regret.  I am 25 and I would have been a little over 1/2way to being retired from the forces. 

I can't say that I regret it everyday, as I have a wonderful wife and 2 kids now.  But there are days when I really wish I would have signed up, that way I would have known first hand if I made the wrong choice going into the ARMY or not. 

I worked HVAC as a trade for about 2 years. I hated it.  I took a job at a truck dealership because it had great benefits for my family.  I was laid off from there last year and now I'm working at a dead end dealership with poor benefits.  I'll find a better job soon but it's times like this I wonder where I'd been if I was in the military. 

It is wrong of you to sway your son not to join up because of your own selfish reasons.  Nobody wants their children to die in a war, but nobody wants to lose them in an auto accident either.  You need to let him know you support him in whatever endevors he chooses and that no matter what, you will be a proud pappa.  It's his life, so let him live it in the way he chooses.  If the military is a dream of his then give him your blessing and let him go.

[teamnelson]

I enlisted in '87; I'm an officer now, having served in 3 different branches along the way. Dad served in the Army in Korea; Grandfather in the RCAF in WWII. Sister is a Major in USAF, academy grad. My daughter will be spending a week at the Coast Guard Academy this summer, hoping to be accepted after high school. My son is contemplating the Navy Academy. I've seen the world, had my Bachelor's and 2 Masters covered, and probably another if not a Doctorate before I retire. My kids have been places and done things most American kids only see on TV. Whether they serve in the military or not, what I hope for them is a life spent on something bigger than themselves or their family.

For an ROTC scholarship, or an Academy appointment, the payback is one for one - a year for each year of education. If he just graduates and takes a commission, it's 4 years. Many Academy grads nowadays go straight into a Masters program; of our most recent batch of fresh officers to report to my command, 1/3 went immediately to Johns Hopkins for a highly competitive IT Masters, graduated in December. Cost to them is 9 more mos of service, for a degree worth $50K. On top of that, they got orders to Hawaii, a Top Secret clearance, and the opportunity to work in the most advanced IT environment on the planet. So at 26 they will walk into the job market with a much better resume than most, no debt, VA benefits for more education, or buying a house ... lived in Hawaii for 4 years, probably a paid off Jeep, surfboard, and Master Diver rating. Had one at my last command that bought a condo in Honolulu when he checked in as an O-1. Did his 4 years, left as an O-3, sold the condo and made enough to bankroll his own business. Not to mention travel the Pacific, and points around the world. Yeah, that's a pretty cool way to spend your 20's.

[Questor]

TeamNelson:

I want my son to read your post. Thanks. I appreciate it.

[Questor]

TeamNelson:

Did you enlist before going into college? Or did you go to college first? Can you do me another favor and explain how the education aspect of it worked?

Thanks for you time.

[Graybeard]

Like rockbilly said I do not believe military life is right for everyone and do not believe it is something that automatically should be forced on all. I do think that for those who can fit into the life style of it the military is a great option and does many good things for a person. But not everyone can or will fit into that life.

I have serious doubts I ever would have fit into it. I just am not one to blindly accept orders in the manner you absolute must to fit properly into the military. I tend to question most things and want to study the options before taking a course of action and that is just not something that is do able in the military nor is it something that should be allowed there as many times that course will get folks killed. The disciple of the military and me likely would not have been a good fit.

I didn't do anything to specifically avoid service nor did I volunteer. I failed my physical at age 18 and before they ever called me back up which they might would or wouldn't I dunno I was married and the wife wound up pregnant tho that wasn't really planned and I was just never called upon again tho I'm pretty sure I'd still have flunked the physical again if they had. Because of that it's doubtful they'd have taken me even had I volunteered.

I'm just a bit too stubborn to bend to the rules for military life. I wound up spending a career in Army civilian service instead and at times even there it was tough for me to live within the much more relaxed rule structure. I just can't help questioning orders. It's just in my nature.

[Heather]

Questor,
  I think it is great that you want your son to fully explore his options and give it much thought before making a decision.  I know one can never fully understand the consequences of their actions until after the fact, but as much information and contemplating as possible will help aide in that aspect.  

Heather

[Hodr]

I knew an eagle scout who signed with the air force right out of high school in California.  He chose medical technician.  After  he finished training he came back, got married, and started taking every night course the air force offered.  When he finished his hitch he came home and went into a full registered nurse program at Berkley.  His wife worked and in 2 years he had a bachelor RN by including his credits for military service and classes.  6 years after high school He went back in the air force as a 1st lt. RN.  he is well on his way to retire after 20 total years service with a Masters in Business and a minor in surgical RN.

He is also one of the smartest kids I ever met.
blindhari

[Questor]

GB:

I thought the military would be a good option for me, but I took a semester of ROTC and it convinced me otherwise. I deeply distrusted the officers' judgement and didn't like the idea of having them able to make life and death decisions affecting me. I also didn't like the atmosphere of group think and conformity. Obviously these are necessary elements of a fighting unit, but when I got a good up-close look at how it works I changed my mind about it.

[teamnelson]

TeamNelson:

Did you enlist before going into college? Or did you go to college first? Can you do me another favor and explain how the education aspect of it worked?

Thanks for you time.

Questor, I enlisted for the GI Bill & College Fund, did 3 years in the Army (MI and SF). Got out, wasn't ready for college yet, enlisted in the Marine Corps (2 years language school). Finished my Bachelors while in the Marine Corps using Tuition Assistance so I didn't have to dip into VA benefits. Also got accepted to a special program while enlisted and served with a particular agency that resulted in a Masters. Got out and went to Seminary, used up my VA benefits and then some. Actually because of my work history enlisted, I was hired as the Dir. of IT for the campus so the VA benefits (about $40,000) were gravy. Cost to me was $1200 ($100 for the first 12 mos of my first enlistment) and 3 years. I did over 11, but the first 3 paid for everything else. I came back in a few years ago direct commission to O-3 (skipped O-1 and O-2). Once I'm selected for O-4 I can get into all sorts of different Masters programs, or begin a funded Doctoral program - assigned as a full time student with full pay and benefits.

To my mind, the best programs in order are Academy, ROTC Scholarship, or Active Duty enlistment. If you just go to college and then decide later to pursue a commission, you may or may not get your student loans paid off for you - all depends on the President because the $ is in a different pot. Several friends are carrying $40k or more in student loans while trying to lead a platoon or company into combat. Academy is highly competitive, but awesome education, no cost, and strong chance of a Masters to boot. ROTC doesn't cover everything, but it covers most things. Today's GI Bill is "da bomb." - way better than what I got. In exchange for one tour, and no buy in, any enlisted person that complete a single enlistment will get monthly housing allowance at E-5 rate for the locality of their college, plus tuition adjusted for the highest state tuition rate (making money there), and a stipend for books & fees ... for 4 years. VA pays that to the student, not to the school. So if you're not extravagant, you'll graduate with money in the bank and no debt. Still at about 26, just without the post college work experience if you'd gone ROTC.

And if he looks at all that and picks the infantry, then he's in it for the trial, the rite of passage. And when he's looked evil in the eye and spat in it, he will be far more likely to suceed at whatever future he chooses.

[Questor]

TeamNelson:

Thank you very much for the good information, and taking the time for such a thoughtful response. I appreciate it.

[gypsyman]

Questor, in 1973, when I graduated from high school, we had the recruiters from all branch's of the service, handing out literature. I grabbed a couple to look at. A month or so after school was over, I recieved a phone call from an Army recruiter, asking if I had given any thought to joining. I said no, but would think about it.
A day or so later, I talked with my dad about it. He was a Sargent in the Marine's during WW2,South Pacific theater. So he had nothing against the military, very proud of his history. My older brother at the time was finishing up a tour in 'Nam.
My dad was against me joining. Made the comment that the military wasn't running the war, the politicians were. And alot of good men were getting killed for nothing. When my brother got back home in the fall, I talked it over with him. He had been drafted. And the draft had ended in late '72. He didn't think it was a good idea. Both of them said, if you get drafted, serve. Otherwise don't.
In a way, I regret not having served, done my part. Something I can't change now. Just give as much honor and respect to those who have served, and are now serving.
As TeamNelson points out, GI benifits can be very helpful in the long run. And, if he doesn't use them for education, I can garauntee that when he fills out a job application down the road, if he can check the box, military vetran-honorable discharge, that will put him head and shoulders above anybody else applying for the job. gypsyman

[no guns here]

Here I am trying to convince my kids to JOIN!

1.  Good pay, where else can an 18 year old kid get nearly $3000 a month legally?
2.  Professional training.
3.  On-the-job training.
4.  College paid for with Tuition Assistance while they are in.
5.  $80,000 in GI Bill college assistance after their four years.
6.  Free room and board.
7.  World travel.  Want to see London, Paris, Rome, Naples, Berlin, the Alps etc... Let Uncle Sam pay you and train you while you do it on the weekends!!!

My daughter wants to be a physical therapist.  If she joins the military she will get the following:

Basic training
Tech School
(both of these count for some college credit)

On-the-job training
(counts for college credit)

Decent basic pay
An E4 with less than two years makes almost $2K a month.

If she volunteers to go overseas like Germany she will get COLA as well, about $700 a month.

She will be expected to take college courses while she is in.  In college, courses take a semester.  Our college courses through UMUC or CTC or somewhere like that only take 8-10 weeks for the same credit.
This will be paid for by Tuition Assistance.  Very little if any money out of pocket for the student or the parents.

After four years, they get another $80K in GI Bill assistance.

While they are doing all of this, they are gaining professional experience in a career field.

Oh and the FREE MEDICAL AND DENTAL from Day 1... okay it's not 100% free but it's only a couple of dollars a month.

30 days of vacation per year

$400,000 life insurance
$100,000 death payment
(these sort of suck but are great if they happen to have a spouse or kids)




After four years, they SHOULD have:

Money in the bank
Professional Experience
About 80-100 hours of college credit (maybe more depending circumstances and dedication)
Possibly a technical certification
A great deal of life-experiences that they will NEVER gain in college

Oh and the whole time they will have a VERY experienced network of professionals backing them up and helping them with everything from finances to health care, family support, counseling, training, etc.
My kid was born in Belgium, had some problems, got a bill for about $80K.  I took it to the Tri-Care office and never saw it again.  Can't get dropped from the insurance provide either.


It's a no-brainer to me.  I have no desire for my kids to go straight into college.  Let them get education, experience, training, college, good pay, health benefits and continuing education benefits instead of only EDUCATION and DEBT.  Of course if they want to go to college and work their butt off at Wal-Mart or Burger King, more power to them.



Later,

NGH