RELOADING 101 - Presses - the basics - need input

[scootrd]

I am busy reading and digesting everything posted on this site regarding reloading. (not sure I am ready to make the jump yet)
I have a lot of Newbie questions. Any input would be most grateful.

Presses  -
Turrett VS single stage pros and cons for beginner reloaders?

Hand Primers vs Auto Primers  - Pros and cons ?

Turret Presses
Auto indexing  - Pros / cons ?
3 hole or 4 hole - is the 4th hole necessary? which leads into crimping dies - Are crimping Dies needed for Bolt action ammunition? 30-06, 7mm-08

Kits  -  are they worth the money or is it better to buy a little better individual quality components right out the gate?

[SHOOTALL]

Get a RCBS rock crusher press and kit . Add their hand primer . The hand primer allows you to feel the primer seat , the single stage press will load anything and unless you need hundreds at a time it is the way to go . For rifle it is better as far as quality control . I mesure each load of powder for my rifle . I would use Redding dies ( I do ) as i have tried Pacfic, RCBS (2nd choice ) , Hornady , Lyman , Lee and they seem the best .

[SHOOTALL]

Also get a manual from the bullet manf. of your choice as it has all the information you need to get started.

[Land_Owner]

Ditto SHOOTALL...

scootrd...when you get some experience and determine that you want a progressive press, RCBS makes a progressive top for the Rock Chucker called the Piggyback.

-or-

purchase a Dillan Press (The Cadilac - so I am told)

I will stick to my RCBS Piggyback progressive for personal pistol rounds and the good old basic Rock Chucker for persoanl rifle rounds.  No more nor less will I ever need...unless the USA enters WWIII.

[SHOOTALL]

does the piggyback work well ?

[smith85619]

I just started reloading last fall, so I know what you are going thru.  here's what I have learned. 

1.  a bench mounted press is better than a hand press.  Thats not to say you will never want or need a hand press.  I bought the Lee hand press kit and use it at the range for testing powders, bullets etc.

2.  a turret press is 1000% better for loading pistol rounds than a single stage press.  In the beginning I loaded some pistol rounds on the hand press and after I had bought a single stage press, on it as well.  I WILL NEVER LOAD PISTOL ROUNDS THAT WAY AGAIN.  I have the Lee 4 hole turret press and I can load ~200 rounds per hour, which is plenty for me.  The 4th hole is necessary, I put the sizing die in hole one, the expanding/powder charging die in hole 2, the bullet seating die in hole 3 and the Lee factory crimp die in hole 4.

3.  auto indexing is not necessary, but it's nice and saves time.  by the time I pull the lever and reach for a new case or a bullet, the turret is alreay in place.

4.  I don't crimp any rifle ammo unless it's for a lever or auto loader.

5.  Reloading has to be customized to fit your personal style and habits.  You will find your own preferences in the way you go about doing things.  You will buy some things that you will not use that much, and you will buy some things that you will not be able to live without (Lee auto prime is one).  I use my RCBS press for loading rifle rounds, my Lee turret for pistol rounds.

6.  If you buy a kit, get the RCBS Rock Chucker, you get a better set of scales with that one and you get a Speer manual. You probably won't like the Lee safety scales.

[SHOOTALL]

you might get pistol rounds faster but not better rounds .

[smith85619]

no representation was made that the quality of rounds was better than the quality of rounds of others.  they work for me.

It took me 6 hours to load 200 rounds on a single stage press, it's a time thing.  They both work and they both make shootable ammo.  It's just one is faster than the other.  the turret seems to work better for pistol ammo for me, I'm not making any statements about what others do.

[SHOOTALL]

I have a Hornady progressive and it works also but the quality is not as good . I was pointing that out to someone starting out . I shot 300 to 400 rounds a week for 7-8 years all most all loaded on a single stage press . I do agree if all you want is plinking loads or loads for IDPA the PR works fine . But if you are looking for tight groups  " Bullseye " then you might be left wanting .

[sk330lc]

Keep it simple when you start.  Start with a single stage press.  I started out with the Rock chucker kit
 many years back .  The Rock chucker press is Love. I've had some Lee presses and was not impressed with the quality. Enough so I no longer have a Lee press.  After you get started and get the hag of loading, You can add a Progressive Press later.

[Land_Owner]

does the piggyback work well ?

Sure does.  Takes just a little longer to understand its idiosyncracies (a good $5.oo word there).  But so does everything with hand loading.  I get one shootable round for every pull of the handle and I don't do everything the Piggyback is capable of doing.  I hand prime the cases for a better feel, although on occasionI have used the Piggyback for priming too. Not unlike you, I went from about 35 rounds an hour one at a time by Rock Chucker (Ruger Super Blackhawk 45 ACP and LC) to well over two hundred an hour with the Piggyback (1911 Thompson/Auto Ordnance 45 ACP).  All are reliable and pretty accurate for target shooting pistol loads.  I have never compared at the bench for Rock Chucker vs. Piggyback.  I hand crimp all loads after the Piggyback is through with them in an attempt to eliminate 1911 loading ramp failures to feed.  Probably needs some smith work on that ramp but the incidence of failures is down to less than one in a hundred vs. one in 10 since off progressive crimping ops were commenced.

[Savage]

I really don't know where the perception came from that quality pistol ammo cannot be loaded on a progressive or turret press. I'd wager that you could take 50 rds loaded on a single stage, 50rds loaded on a progressive or turret, using all the same components. Toss them in a bag, and load/shoot them.  I doubt that any of us could tell the difference! Anyone weighing every powder charge for pistol  ammo is either shooting in a very demanding discipline, or is not shooting enough.  Close as I come to loading on a single stage, is the Lee Turret. I batch load .223 for my ARs. Mine group between 5/8-3/4" weather and shooter permitting. Could I load more accurate ammo on my Rock Chucker? Frankly, I don't care. I'd rather be shooting than loading.
Savage

[wncchester]

"Presses  - Turrett VS single stage pros and cons for beginner reloaders?"

You don't say if you expect load a few boxes of precision rifle at a time or hundreds of handgun cartidges; it makes  a difference.  

For low volumes (<perhaps 300 at a time) and precision, get a single stage.  Not only is it usually stronger and better aligned than any "turret" can be, it is easier to learn on.  A single stage can be the better choice if you want both precision AND volume.  Use it to learn and add a progressive, or auto-index turret, later.  The single stage won't be a waste, you will still use it.


"Hand Primers vs Auto Primers  - Pros and cons?"  

There are no cons to "Auto Primers", even the hand operated ones.  


"Turret Presses - Auto indexing  - Pros / cons ?"

I have an old six station Lyman turret.  I got it first, in '65, because it was "clearly faster", right?  Wrong!  Manualy indexing the turret was slow, getting it accurately indexed slowed me more.  I eventally used it as a sorta funny looking single stage that could store a few dies.  

Took me awhile but in '87 I finally got one of the highly touted Rock Chuckers.  I find it okay, but it's really no better than any of its cast iron competetors such as the Redding Boss, Lyman Crusher or Lee Classic Cast.  And the primer catcher on the Classic Cast actually works, that's NICE!  (If I had to replace my RC tomorrow that's what I would get, in a flash!)  I suspect those who stand by the RC have little, if any, experience with others of simular design.


"3 hole or 4 hole - is the 4th hole necessary?"

There is never any advantage to having fewer operational options.  Four holes certainly aren't "necessary" but ... why do with less than you can get.  

In this question you must be referencing the Lee "turret" which is an auto-index press, sorta a junior progressive in my view.  It IS faster than any other turret (that is to say, any other non-progressive) and an excellant choice for semi-fast loading it seems to me.


"Are crimping Dies needed for Bolt action ammunition? 30-06, 7mm-08"

Needed? No.  But nice sometimes, especially the Lee Factory Crimp Dies.  Understand there are no blanket rules to obtaining best accuracy.  Only way to learn if crimping will help YOU, is for YOU to try it!


"Kits  -  are they worth the money or is it better to buy a little better individual quality components right out the gate?"

I don't much care for kits, don't think any brand has a lock on the most usable tools across the board.  BUT, it takes experience (code word for making mistakes!) to learn what is "best" for each of us and a kit forces us to live with a less than ideal tool or spend the money to replace it.

But, when you are new and don't KNOW what might be a better choice, item by item, kits DO make it easier to get started.  And none of the kits have bad tools so you can very well live with the choices you start with for a long time.  Many do,  forever.  And, if you never try anything else you won't even know if you would be happier with a different brand of anything...so get a kit and never use anything else!    


Over agonising about each tool choice is futile at first, it all works so you really can't go wrong with any of it.  

Good luck!

[Autorim]

I agree on starting with the single stage press. There are several good ones. You can't go wrong with RCBS or Redding. A hand primer is good - but not necessary. You can prime on the press. I prefer Redding and RCBS dies - I have a 47 year collection of them. The various other items mentioned on previous posts are good.

When you want to load more ammo faster, IMHO the Dillon is the way to go. Yes, you can produce quality ammo on a progressive or turret. I only load handgun ammo on the Dillon - 9mm, .38, .357, .44, .45 ACP and .45 AR. All other is loaded on the Rockchucker with all depriming performed on the old RCBS Jr. press.

I also use the Rockchucker to load test lots of handgun ammo - usually in 30 round lots - to test for accuracy and to chrono. You will not be disappointed in a good single stage press and you will use it forever.

[Lead pot]

I have two progressive presses, a Hornady and a Lee and both are under the bench have been for a long time.
I can load more rounds using a Rock chucker or my CH4D 4 station press.
By the time you mess with the primer feed and cases not charged or double charged primers getting seated up side down, fiddling with the primer feed I can have a very good load using the single station or the H press.
With a progressive press it is very easy to get a bad load that has a double charge or one with no powder and get a squib load.
I have seen guys on line get a squib load thinking they had a miss fire and jacking the case out and firing another round and splitting the barrel.
When you stop and think about it the thing that extends the time loading with a single station press is changing the dies. And that does not take long if the die lock ring is set.

Lp.

[Jacko]

I'm brand new to reloading and perhaps this is not that relevent but my head was swimming with all the well meaning , correct and plain bad advice I received from the net , mates and gunshops . I am loading a .357 mag and shoot 100 to 150 rounds a month . In my case the old rule KISS - keep it simple stupid -  struck a cord .

I ended up with a Lee Hand press & Lee dies I had a Lyman scale already I use for weighing arrows  . This gear is slow , yes it does get tiresome loading more than 50 cases at a time and I don't care . I decided slowly was the best coarse for me until I knew something about reloading and not just repeating the process from a book . I have broken the process down into steps and do not move onto the next stage until the task at hand is done with every case I am loading that session , the gear I have promotes this . For me a progressive press added up to strife simply due to my inexperience . I was also thinking the hand press is great for load development at the range .

In the future I will definatly be getting a bench mounted single stage press and a digital scale . I will also be considering a case tumbler and perhaps a powder trickler .

regards Jacko

[Land_Owner]

I started with a hand held Lee Loader, which is one at a time by hammering a case into the sizing die.  The sizing die is hand held and placed on the counter or floor for the hammering. 

Then you turn the die over in your hand and bang the sized case out with a rod.  Setting the primer is the most "dangerous" part with the Lee Loader and I have ignited a few in my day, but without any damage to myself. 

Using the supplied scoop, pour in the powder.  There is no weighing of charge with the Lee Loader as the provided scoop is a volume charge and the presumption is that each scoop when leveled "weighs" approximately the same.

Set the primed and powder loaded case into the cylindrical steel die base.  The base has a hole in its bottom to prevent any striking of the primer for the next most critical step.  Put your bullet on top the of the charged case and hammer the die until the bullet is seated.

There is absolutely no bench mounted anything with a Lee Loader and I made multiple THOUSANDS of super accurate 30-30 and 270 rifle and 45 ACP and 45 LC pistol rounds per year for years.

I started slowly for only a few dollars, learned the basics, attained confidence, did not blow any of my toys apart, shot a LOT of accurate ammunition that I made, killed a lot of deer and ten times as many hogs, and had a ball doing it.

Today I have not only the Lee Loaders in multiple calibers (that I no longer use at all), but a Rock Chucker bench mounted press, and the Piggyback progressive loader for that Rock Chucker.

Time is your friend.  It is hoped that you have a lot of it.  Don't rush the good stuff.  And to that I also add...to each his own.  Have fun.  Good luck.

[Autorim]

Akin to Land-Owner, I started with a Pak-Tool table top hand loader and a .243 die that I pushed the cases into with a vise or hammered them in with a hammer and wood block. It worked and I still have the Pak -Tool and use it sometimes for hand priming. That was about 1962. I still recommend a bench mounted press similar to the Rockchucker. A good powder scale is a must and you can weigh all charges and not buy a measure until you need to or want to.

I have Redding, RCBS, Dillon and Lyman measures and they all work just fine. Your biggest challenge will most likely be finding components unless you have a reloading friend who can supply you.

[SHOOTALL]

Savage , you hit the nail on the head , I was shooting a 44 mag, 357SM , 45 Colt and others out to 200 meters . You could tell the difference . If the new loader is using his ammo for hunting i would suggest SSP press if he shoots IDPA or such a PP would work good .