Author Topic: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?  (Read 2985 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DEACONLLB

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2458
  • Gender: Male
Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« on: June 03, 2009, 04:37:43 AM »
Have not shot a pellet gun in over 40 years and what we had to chose from in brands was Crossman, Benjerman and ,and one other brand. Now i see many brands to chose from some co2 some barrel brake and some pump up as well as some that have a cyl you can pump with hand pimp or air compressor. do not want to brake the bank something that shoots well and will be used only for plinking. something in the 100 to 200 price range.A friend has a Winchester barrel brake and it will not hold sight from one shot to the next
Deaconllb
Korean war vet. NRA Member
Fourth fighter wing K14 Kimpo Korea 1952 Fourth but first, the mig killers.
533rd material ,air defense Oxnard AFB 1953-1955
Pastor of the  CBCG-Fellowship group Tulsa Oklahoma.

Offline Dillohide

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 273
  • Gender: Male
Re: Thinking of gettoin a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2009, 06:01:30 AM »
That "other" brand was Sheridan. I got one new in 1958 with the "hold-down" safety. It will still drop squirrels from the tops of trees and blow the center out of a target at 40 yards. In 1976 Sheridan was bought by Benjamin to become Benjamin-Sheridan and in 1992 Crossman bought it. Both the Benjamin and Sheridan are still made and have been consistent, reliable air rifles over the years. I just bought a Benjamin 392 (22 cal) at Academy for $129.99 and expect it to be as good as my old Sheridan 5 mm. The only problem for old eyes is where to mount a scope because neither model was designed for them. Air Venturi Intermount is a mount that fits over the receiver and allows the scope to be placed where it should be, although a little high. I got it a Pyramyd Air on line. The Crossman mount is a 4 piece assembly that goes over the barrel between the rear site and the receiver but not as good a setup. Both Sheridan and Benjamin are now pre-drilled for a Williams receiver peep site.

All that to say, I'd recommend a Benjamin/Sheridan  ;D


Offline securitysix

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 558
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2009, 12:02:01 PM »
The ones pumped up with a hand pump or air compressor are called "Pre-Charged Pneumatics", or "PCPs".  A PCP gun is going to be somewhat expensive, especially since you have to buy the pump separate from the gun in most cases.  The cheapest you're likely to find a decent PCP is about $300 (the Benjamin/Sheridan Discovery, but it comes with a hand pump for that price).

In the $100-$200 range, you're probably going to be looking at more break barrel springers than anything else, and at the lower end of the mid-range of quality at best.  The Beeman RS-1 might be a good choice and can be switched between .22 and .177 calibers.  I've heard that the trigger on them is pretty rough.

Ruger evidently makes an air rifle, which Sportsman's Guide sells.  Don't know if it's any good or not, but it's in your price range.

Offline DEACONLLB

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2458
  • Gender: Male
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2009, 12:31:05 PM »
Yes I have been looking at that one at wally world and also looked at another one crossman I think and it was a springer wood stock and you could adj. triger on it. I had looked at the hand pumps ones at the gun show and they were very pricey and If I remember you had to buy the cylinder if you wanted to charge it.
Acadamy sports has the Benjerman pump up with wood stock and brass barrel for 100.00.
Trying to get all info. before I make up my mind.
Thanks
Deaconllb
Korean war vet. NRA Member
Fourth fighter wing K14 Kimpo Korea 1952 Fourth but first, the mig killers.
533rd material ,air defense Oxnard AFB 1953-1955
Pastor of the  CBCG-Fellowship group Tulsa Oklahoma.

Offline lamerabbit

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 103
    • http://airgunners.741.com
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2009, 03:08:55 PM »
Go with an RWS 34 and you won't be sorry.  It comes in both 22 and 177 calibers.   I had them all, and only shoot my custom pcps these days, but for 200 or under the rws 34/36 is a great gun.  Many of the other brands are too iffy for my money. 

They sell them with or without a scope, the choice is yours.  The really nice thing about rws, is that 20 years after I had bought an RWS 48, the main spring broke, and while checking it out I brok the rear cap/cover on the darn thing. 

RWS replace all for just the cost of shipping!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stick with round nosed pellets, in the 15 or less grain in 22, and 9 to 8 grain in 177 and you will be able to shoot darn near as well with as you can with a 10/22

Jim

PS if you buy a new gun and you should unless you know the seller real good, you should just plink with it for a couple of thousand rounds without ta scope on, and they tend to have a big breakin period, that's with all springers

Offline blhof

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 738
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 03:49:15 AM »
If you are going to do any hunting or varmit removal; I would suggest the 22, as the larger pellets have more killing power.  I have a break barrel and have taken rabbits, squirrels, and raccoons.  A fellow on Ebay sells a variety pack of pellets; groups of 10, which is a good way to find which shoots best in the gun you get, without breaking the bank.

Offline Bullseye

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1879
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2009, 06:44:05 AM »
I second the vote for the RWS 34.  Mine is plenty accurate and cost $175 at Natchez.  I have the 22 caliber and like it.

Offline His lordship.

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1018
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2009, 08:18:41 AM »
Doesn't the model 34 have wandering problems with the windage.  I had one once, and yes I thought it was a good gun for the money, but had to watch it for vermin removal when shooting out windows and between porch supports as it did go a little to the left and hit the support once or twice.

We used the Model 34 to shoot up some old cans, etc. and it worked fine for that.  Thinking about getting another one and it might be that my last one was not so good in the accuracy dept.  Have you owners of the model 34 noticed any windage problems?

Thanks.

Offline Dillohide

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 273
  • Gender: Male
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2009, 09:52:22 AM »
Since you've got an Academy, they had the Benjamin Super Streak for $269 (.177 or .22) when I picked up a model 392 pump the other day. It's a springer with wood stock and thumb hole. They also had the Ruger Air Hawk for $129.99 ... another springer with wood stock. Don't know anything about either rifle but believe the Super Streak has an adjustable trigger.

Offline Autorim

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 610
  • Gender: Male
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2009, 03:31:49 PM »
My favorite is the Beeman R7 .20 cal. Great accuracy and trigger with enough power and penetration for squirrels.

Offline Dweezil

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 126
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 01:22:31 PM »
In your price range:
For plinking: Benjamin 397 in .177cal
for plinking/hunting: Benjamin 392 in .22 cal.  8 pumps for small game hunting and 3-4 pumps for (quieter) practice indoors/outdoors. This is an important feature with all the multipumps. You don't always need, or want, full power. That stray cat in your bird feeder may not warrant 8 pumps when 3 sends him away yowling with no permanent damage.

Mostly hunting: IZH BAikal in .22.  Very accurate Russian built airgun with LOTS of power and relatively quiet once broken in. 

Spring piston airguns take a while to get used to as they have weird recoil and it takes time to learn how to hold them for best accuracy.

MY choice?  Benjamin 392...with the peep sight.

In any event, get thee hence to pyramidair.com  and do a lot of reading.  There is a wealth of info. there about all things airgun related.

Offline hanky

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Posts: 4
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2009, 05:56:05 AM »
Have not shot a pellet gun in over 40 years and what we had to chose from in brands was Crossman, Benjerman and ,and one other brand. Now i see many brands to chose from some co2 some barrel brake and some pump up as well as some that have a cyl you can pump with hand pimp or air compressor. do not want to brake the bank something that shoots well and will be used only for plinking. something in the 100 to 200 price range.A friend has a Winchester barrel brake and it will not hold sight from one shot to the next
Deaconllb

Offline hanky

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Posts: 4
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2009, 06:14:59 AM »
Got a 34 "Panther" in .22 and a 392 also in .22. Got a Center Point scope on the Panther & a Williams peep
on the 392. At 20 yards the Panther shoots touching holes or.25" and the 392 will do at best 1.5", your choice. For a few bucks more, get the 34, forget the Benjis or Phantoms, they are junks.
 

Offline S.S.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2009, 04:37:41 PM »
I am a Sheridan fan but by you saying you have not had one in 40 years,
I would think you are in my age bracket. That Sheridan will give you a workout
pumping it up! (5 round group is 40 pumps).
I am looking at a Co2 rifle from a company called Archer Airguns.
It is called a QB78 deluxe and is a Chinese copy of an old Crosman.
Everyone that has one seens to love them.
I think I am going to give one a try.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline ronbow

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 271
  • Gender: Male
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2009, 03:58:47 AM »
I have a Benjamin model 397P in .177 which is about 15 years old. It has a max of 800 fps with 8 pumps. The gun is incredibly accurate, especially with flat nose pellets. I have used it to thin out the grey squirrels that are overruning the place and tearing up my bird feeders. I only use 4 or 5 pumps and kill at out to 20 - 25 yards. I use the flat nose pellets and get killing penetration. I use the stock open sights.

Offline skarke

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1190
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2009, 05:59:11 AM »
For whatever it is worth, and humbly I serve this, but if you have the money (about 3 bills), you would be disappointed if you bought anything else but a Beeman.  You would, no pun intended :), be blown away if you were to ever shoot a quality air rifle with quality ammo.  The R1 is a classic, as is the R10.  These are wonderfully made German classics, will last several lifetimes with minor maintenance, shoot lights out (1 hole, not ragged if you are good enough), have fabulous adjustable triggers, and are worth every penny (of course, these are used prices, but people care for these like bench guns).

Avoid 22 cal pellet guns, the ballistics are inferior to 20 and 177.  The Beeman R7 and R9 are current products, the R9 looks like a kissing cousin to the venerable R1.  Regardless, buy GERMAN!!!!  Everybody elses products are a step down.

Also, with due respect to everybody's opinions, Daisy, Crossman, Sheridan, etc are several steps down to all but the base model Beemans.  Of course, the base model beemans are steps down to the real, German ones as well.

Last, get a good, airgun rated scope, or you'll trash it (yes, that includes Leupold, Burris, Nightforce, etc).
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States when men were free.  Ronaldus Maximus

Offline S.S.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2009, 01:33:24 PM »
A lot of Beemans are now made in China!
And if my figures are correct, The .22 cal pellet
strikes with about 78%+  more force than a 177
traveling at equal velocity? All of my Sheridans
will also tear one ragged hole in the target..
But so can my Beeman. And my ancient Crosman
Pellmaster. High price doesn't always make something
infinitely better. My Beeman and My Sheridan Are
both great guns and both will do the job I ask
of them.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline FourBee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1770
  • Gender: Male
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2009, 01:40:12 PM »
I've looked them over, read reviews, and still undecided.   If I could afford it, I'd just get one of each. ;D ;D :D
Enjoy your rights to keep and bear arms.

Offline skarke

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1190
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2009, 01:40:30 AM »
Yes, unfortunately in these economic times, Beeman, RWS, and the like have opted for a lesser line of Chinese made products.  However, they (Beeman) are one of the few manufacturers that also make their fine, German made line as well, and it is beyond stellar.  You might want to take a look at www.pyramidair.com.

The German made rifles (like I said it is just my very humbly offered opinion and advice), are works of art.  Good used ones exist for the same price as a new sheridan, or crossman, or daisy, or gamo.  If you are fortunate to have a range where airgun competitors shoot, ask them, and see what they shoot.  They'll point you in the right direction.  Plus, a good indicator of the quality of a product is how it holds its value.  I could sell my R10, for instance, for nearly what I paid for it 15 years ago.

Regarding 177 vs 22 vs 20, the way pneumatic rifles push the pellet is different than a traditional nitrocellulose propellant driven projectile.  Ballistically speaking, airguns more efficiently push a 20 better than a 22 (though lots of people buy 22s because lots of people buy 22s).  If you are killing varmints, you'll be pleased with either a 22 or a 20 (most sheridans are 20s).
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States when men were free.  Ronaldus Maximus

Offline Stock02

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2009, 06:32:27 PM »
Step back and take a deep breath.

Now save yer cash till ya can afford a Beeman R7 or R9.

Offline Autorim

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 610
  • Gender: Male
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2009, 04:41:57 PM »
I still vote for the Beeman R7. I also recommend the RWS night pro scope. My Gamo was destroyed by recoil. The night pro is still doing very well. This combo is deadly on squirrels.

Offline DaveShooter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 78
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2009, 05:55:54 PM »
Have not shot a pellet gun in over 40 years and what we had to chose from in brands was Crossman, Benjerman and ,and one other brand. Now i see many brands to chose from some co2 some barrel brake and some pump up as well as some that have a cyl you can pump with hand pimp or air compressor. do not want to brake the bank something that shoots well and will be used only for plinking. something in the 100 to 200 price range.A friend has a Winchester barrel brake and it will not hold sight from one shot to the next
Deaconllb
If you can afford it get yourself a Benjamin Discovery in 22 cal. I got mine with the pump for 400.00.
It is a real nice rifle and 3-stage pump it even comes with 25 pellets to boot. Go to crossmans web sight and check it out.

Offline JPShelton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 460
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2009, 11:06:35 PM »
A lot of Beemans are now made in China!
And if my figures are correct, The .22 cal pellet
strikes with about 78%+  more force than a 177
traveling at equal velocity? All of my Sheridans
will also tear one ragged hole in the target..
But so can my Beeman. And my ancient Crosman
Pellmaster. High price doesn't always make something
infinitely better. My Beeman and My Sheridan Are
both great guns and both will do the job I ask
of them.

The poster's figures above ARE NOT correct, at least in the real world sense, because the same gun in .22 isn't going to shoot with the same velocity that the .177 version will.  It could be and often is as much as 200 FPS less.

Assume that you're shooting the three common smallbore air rifle calibers out of rifles with the same powerplant, i.e. three Beeman R-1's with one being .177, one being .20, and the other being .22

I am willing to stipulate that the R-1 will be slightly more effecient in transfering spring energy to the pellet in the larger bore sizes.  Untuned .177 R-1's are normally good for 16 to 17 ft/lbs of muzzle energy.  The .20's are normally good for 17 to 18, while the .22's can get 19 ft/lb at the muzzle -sometimes more.

The problem is that we don't normally shoot game or targets right at the muzzle.

If you have a .177 R-1 and shoot Crossman Premier Light or Crosman Premier Heavies, you'll be shooting a pellet with a ballistic coeffecient of AT LEAST .028 when discharged from an R-1.

It will arrive at the fifty yard line with around 10 ft/lb of thump.  That is enough to drive the pellet DEEP into a very large jackrabbit's noggin.

The .20, on the other hand, will yeild a bc about the same as above with Kodiaks.  Velocity will be lower, but the pellets have more mass.  At the fifty yard line, this combo will typically yield a tick over 10 ft/lb of thump.  This will also be enough to drive the .20 pellets DEEP into a very large jackrabbit's noggin.

Most pellet choices in .22 don't have ballistic coeffecients that high, so they shed their already reduced velocity more quickly.  It is entirely possible for a .22 R-1 to deliver LESS power to the fifty yard mark than the smaller bore versions will, particularly if no attention is paid to the ballistic coeffecient of the pellets used and if the pellets used have a lower BC.

This is one of the reasons why Robert Beeman was a STAUNCH advocate of the .20 caliber when he still ran Beeman and why he reamins one even now, when he no longer has any financial ties to the company that bears his name.

The .177 has MANY advantages over the .22 in a springer applied to the hunting field.  First, the velocity is usually higher.  This means dwell time in the bore is reduced, which is a very good thing for consistant shot placement.  Second, that same higher velocity that reduces bore dwell time also yields a potentially flatter trajectory than can be achieved with .22.  It will be flatter if you're shooting CPL, CPH, JSB Exacts, or any of a number of other pellets with bc's over .027.

If you sight in to maximize point blank range, you'll have a flat enough trajectory to score hits on the kill zone of most small game out to an honest 50 yards without worring about how much hold over you need at distance.  You won't with a .22 R-1 and will give up somewhere between 5 and 10 precious yards of point blank range distance compared to what you could have had with the .177

Not only that, but the added velocity advantage of the .177 over .22 in guns using the same powerplant also yeilds reduced flight time to target, and it is significant enough to dramatically minimize wind drift issues at the limit of practical game taking range.

This whole deal about ballistic coefficent is why my weenie little R-9, which is both much lighter and much less bulky than its bigger R-1 brother, might start with a two or three foot-pound muzzle energy disadvantage but still deliver 9 foot pounds of thump at the fifty yard line.  There isn't a game animal around that will notice the difference between the two when hit with one or the other at 50 yards. 

That's why I hunt with the lighter, handier, R-9. 

I prefer the .20 caliber because you get the deep digging penetration that .177 is known for, with a wound channel diameter more like a .22 pellet makes, and with a max PBR closer to the .177 than the .22, assuming we're comparing the same rifle in different calibers.

-JP

Offline JPShelton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 460
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2009, 11:19:54 PM »
I would suggest the 22, as the larger pellets have more killing power. 

Ain't necessarily so.  Not only that, it often isn't.  Not downrange, anyhow, where it matters.

I had a Gamo Shadow that took:  cottontail rabbit, jackrabbit, racoon, skunk, feral pigeons, crows, quail (legal to kill with air rifle in CA in season per sec. 311(f) of the CA Code of Regulations) and chukar.  It was .177.

I have a mildly hot-rodded R-9 in .177 that has taken those animals plus tree squirrels.

I have a lube-tuned R-9 in .20 that has taken all of the above plus a couple of turkey (again, legal to do in California).

The .177's shine at long range on windy days.  Pop a bunny in the "magic spot" behind the ear and below the eye, and its "Phhhhhht Flop" every time, even if that bunny happens to be a 12 pound jackrabbit.

As long as Beeman keeps making .20 R-9's and keeps supplying FTS pellets to shoot out of them, I not be finding a use for a .22 caliber air rifle.

-JP

Offline skarke

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1190
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2009, 01:25:54 AM »
JP, fabulous post.  I know one of you avid air guys would chime in.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States when men were free.  Ronaldus Maximus

Offline Dand

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (35)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2974
Re: Thinking of getting a pellet gun which one?
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2009, 09:00:50 PM »
If quiet, accurate easy shooting is your goal the Beeman R7 in .177 is a dream and worth the price. Look on Brad Troyer's American classifieds or buy new. I love mine and it is very quiet and accurate. I have shot a couple grouse with it but on the second, when I didn't have a clear head shot, I tried a body shot and the .177 CP lites bounced off the wing feathers at about 20 yds.  For hunting I hear the R9 is much better but I haven't tried one.  I do have BSA Spitfire I think in .22 that I use for grouse now and its ok. I feel the .22 is better and kills with more authority. The BSA  I got used for much less than an R9. It doesn't have as good a trigger but I don't might it getting a little rain on it.  Its much louder than the R7.

Haven't tried an RWS 34. They get a lot of good press here for an affordable good gun. I'm wary. If you shoot some springers much you'll start noticing the recoil and l LIKE the pads on my R7 and BSA.

I've wished for an R10 or R11. Passed up an R6 and that might have been a mistake.
I've also wondered if the .20 would be as good a compromise as some say but others debate.
Might be worth a try. For plinking stay with .177 for economy.

A great site to learn about air rifles, compare rifles, and in my experience buy new stuff is Straight Shooters - google them. Good outfit tho a little more expensive than others - but they  provide a lot of service.
HTH

Oh and keep your thumb out of the breech area on springers. If the gun will allow, load before cocking. I didn't once and nearly lost a big chunk of thumb when the gun snapped closed on me when the improperly tuned trigger released prematurely.  My thumb hurts a little all the time.  Used to be a post on here with the gory details.
NRA Life

liberal Justice Hugo Black said, and I quote: "There are 'absolutes' in our Bill of Rights, and they were put there on purpose by men who knew what words meant and meant their prohibitions to be 'absolutes.'" End quote. From a recent article by Wayne LaPierre NRA