Author Topic: Rifles are tools-they get wet- so what? (Read 4463 times)

melloman · « **on:** June 06, 2009, 07:38:55 AM »

I worked in a pawn shop for a year and cleaned up dozens of rusty blue and wood rifles that were to my mind neglected. Many guns had a thick black coat of dirt and oil yet rust blooming out of the bluing. Some folks just let their tools rust. Have you ever been so tired after a day of hunting in the rain that you stood your rifle in the corner wet and went to bed? Well, I'm thinking about stainless steel with synthetic stocks. Does anyone put away their stainless/synthetic wet after a hunt and it always dries just fine with never any damage? Is stainless worth the extra money?

SDS-GEN · « **Reply #1 on:** June 06, 2009, 08:35:35 AM »

Rust is an abomination on my guns and my tools, there is no excuse for it. Stainless is great for hunts in salt water areas, backpack hunts, and hunts that take you into the wilderness for a week at a time. Stainless still needs care and a coat of oil.

melloman · « **Reply #2 on:** June 06, 2009, 09:41:21 AM »

During World War I soldiers in the trenches in France lived in rain water and mud for weeks or months while the fight went on with little or no time for cleaning their soaked rifles. Their stocks would bloat up with water. Would they have been any better off with stainless rifles? Why does stainless need oiling? Do you take your stainless rifle all apart after a day in the rain and oil it? Why pay more for it if you have to put the same amount of work into it that you put into a blued rifle?

MZ5 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 06, 2009, 11:49:31 AM »

Quote from: melloman on June 06, 2009, 09:41:21 AM

Do you take your stainless rifle all apart after a day in the rain and oil it? Why pay more for it if you have to put the same amount of work into it that you put into a blued rifle?

I have these questions, too. Most particularly the second one.

bluecow · « **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2009, 12:26:59 PM »

dont have a stainless rifle but do like it on my hunting handguns...still, you take care of your horse, dog, and guns before yourself. maybe i spent to much time shooting blackpowder, or depending on my firearm.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #5 on:** June 06, 2009, 01:22:56 PM »

Quote from: MZ5 on June 06, 2009, 11:49:31 AM

Quote from: melloman on June 06, 2009, 09:41:21 AM
Do you take your stainless rifle all apart after a day in the rain and oil it? Why pay more for it if you have to put the same amount of work into it that you put into a blued rifle?

I have these questions, too. Most particularly the second one.

Stainless requires care but is not as susceptible to rust as blued steel. Scratch the blue and you have raw metal that rusts easily, scratch the stainless and you have more stainless.

My personal preference is I like them all. Good walnut and blue when I’m in a traditional mood, but the barrel I just ordered for my blued Interarms Mark X action is stainless and the stock is pepper laminate. I have synthetic stocks on several firearms and have to say they work great when hunting. One reason I bought a Rem 870 shotgun was the synthetic stock, even though I really lusted after a Browning BPS with a walnut stock – just couldn’t see laying around in the muddy ditches with the Browning when goose hunting. My Ruger .300WM has the short-lived “Canoe Paddle” skeletonized synthetic stock. Don’t care much for the recoil pad but the stock is a brute.

If I lived in high humidity areas or areas near the ocean or rainy areas, I would probably have more synthetic ad stainless.

mannyrock · « **Reply #6 on:** June 06, 2009, 01:34:36 PM »

Dear Guys,

To answer the question, yes stainless steel needs care and a coat of oil. Why? Because stainless steel is not totally stainless. Yes, it is very resistent to rust, but no, it is not rust proof. It will rust. Take a 25 year old stainless semi-auto pistol apart, and you will generally find some rust marks underneath the grips, and in the sharp corners inside the grip frame. No, you can 't wipe the rust marks off with a rag. They are permanent, unless buffed or polished out.

Hope this info helps.

Regards,

Mannyrock
.

mannyrock · « **Reply #7 on:** June 06, 2009, 01:41:27 PM »

To answer the other question, of why bother wiith a stainless rifle if they need oil and care, the answer is this: If you have a blued and walnut rifle, and get caught in the rain while hunting, you had better break it down that very night, and thoroughly dry and oil it. If you have a stainless and synthetic rifle, though, you could easily wait 5 or 6 days before you break it down, wipe it out, and oil it. Sure, you would dry it off with a cloth as best you could the very night it got soaked with water, but you wouldn't have to break the rifle down that very night. You could wait until your hunting trip was over.

Regards,

Mannyrock

melloman · « **Reply #8 on:** June 06, 2009, 04:32:01 PM »

Interesting answer, Mannyrock. With stainless you may choose to wait several days. I read about a guy in Alaska with a 458 Winchester MarkX action that he had painted with Rustolium. Yet the bolt raceways and other areas I imagine would have to be left bare and thus would still need daily drying and oil. I'm finished with this. Thanks to those who answered me.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #9 on:** June 06, 2009, 04:42:16 PM »

i had a 22 ruger single six
in a salt water tackle box for months

the bullets got corroded and stuck
a hammer, punch,and steel wool and the gun was like new...within an hour

i like stainless and black rubber

Swampman · « **Reply #10 on:** June 06, 2009, 04:43:53 PM »

Stainless synthetic rifles will take a lot of abuse. I think you could spray them out with WD-40 every night. I just think they are ugly. I used to have lots of them. I do have a stainless Remington 700ML. I wish they made a wood stock for it.

Hank08 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 07, 2009, 05:54:07 AM »

last fall someone stole a Ruger all weather rifle (synthetic stock and stainless metal) from a friends truck. This spring (6 mo. later) it was found in an irrigation ditch where someone had thrown it (probably kids) it was wet and muddy and the sun had bleached the side of the stock facing up to a light grey but there wasn't a speck of rust anywhere on the metal, inside or out. For the sun to turn that black stock almost white it had to have lain there all winter.
With a blue and wood results would have been way different.
H08

melloman · « **Reply #12 on:** June 07, 2009, 09:02:14 AM »

Very interesting, Hank08. I now remember reading an article by Finn Agaard who said when he was hunting perhaps the south coast of Alaska in the rain if he oiled he had to do it every day on a blued gun but if he wiped everything with butchers wax he could let it go without for a few days.

SDS-GEN · « **Reply #13 on:** June 07, 2009, 10:40:20 AM »

Mannyrock has it right. Stainless used in guns is not the same stainless used in your kitchen knives. It will rust, it just does it slowly. I have a stainless 300 mag savage that spent a week in South East Alaska a couple of years ago hunting coastal bears. After a week of rain, salt water, getting in and out of boats, wading streams and crawling through brush the barrel had a few spots of rust. A few minutes with some 00 or 000 steel wool and the rifle looked like new. If I tried that trick with a blued rifle I would have had a bare spot on the metal.

To add to what Mannyrock said, not all parts in a stainless firearm are stainless. Some parts are often made of plain carbon steel, especially springs.

I always figured the better you take care of a firearm the better it will take care of you. All my guns stainless, blued, parkerized, or whatever get cleaned and oiled after use. Whether its an hour at the range or a day of hunting.

leather5to1 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:34:44 PM »

sds-gen
If you can find 0000 steel wool you can get fine rust off of a blued gun without removing the blueing. It isn't easy to find but does this job good.

S.B. · « **Reply #15 on:** June 10, 2009, 04:34:47 AM »

Nickel is the element which renders stainless more stainless than blued carbon steel but, as mentioned before the alloyed steel is NOT stainless! It's alloyed with carbon steel and sometimes less machinable than carbon steel.
S&W had a heck of a time with their first series model 60s alloy just right for both stainless and machining properties.
Steve

SDS-GEN · « **Reply #16 on:** June 11, 2009, 07:19:52 AM »

Chromium is the component that makes steel stainless. At least 13% (if I remember correctly) is required for a steel to be labeled "stainless". The higher the chromium content the harder the steel is to work with, thus parts that require precision machining and forgeing, like actions and barrels, are made with low chromium stainless.

I've tried the 0000 steel wool trick on some guns I inherited, for me it works some of the time for very light surface rust. However I have polished a few bright spots on guns with 0000. I don't know if it is the blueing quality on the gun or too much elbow grease. It is much easier to keep rust off of a gun in the first place, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

leather5to1 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 11, 2009, 02:06:56 PM »

Stainless is only a surface coating though. That is why if it is welded, even with stainless wire it will rust or if scratch/marred deep enough. The steel can be retreated with oxacilic acid (Bar Keeps Friend is easy to come by) to restore its stainless properties. I have used bar keeps friend on a stainless weld to restore it's resistance. You have to mix up a paste and leave it on for a couple of hours maybe 3 or 4 times.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #18 on:** June 11, 2009, 02:35:11 PM »

Honest wear and tear on a gun is ok, it tells a story. Abuse is another thing. Can't stand to see a nice blue and walnut rifle marred by rust and gouges in the wood.

Having said that, when I was a kid, a buddy of mine gave me a badly rusted old Stevens pump shotgun. I worked the gun over with steel wool and Hoppes #9, and found the metal had taken on a dark hue, and was badly pitted. The stock was sanded, and a basic oil finish applied. Still looked like crap, but the thing was, when the action and barrel was cleaned of all the old gunk, it worked fine.

I was doing a lot of duck hunting at the time in the CT marshes, and that gun became my "trunk gun". Throw it in the trunk of the car, dont worry about using a case, out in the salt spray all day, no problem. As bad as that gun looked, it killed a ton of ducks, and never jammed. After moving to PA, I eventually gave it to a farm kid in town who needed a shotgun for jump shooting ducks on a local river. That old shotgun could tell stories my nice clean Brownings and SxS's could only dream about.

Larry

Redford Bohica · « **Reply #19 on:** June 12, 2009, 01:08:23 PM »

bluecow said....."...still, you take care of your horse, dog, and guns before yourself. "

Absolutely right!!!

jro45 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 13, 2009, 01:21:36 AM »

First thing I do after hunting in the rain is clean my rifle. Me and my rifles get along just fine.
I'll dry it off then go to the barrel and I'll and clean it free of copper and any thing else. Then I go over the hole rifle with a rag with oil on it.

kitchawan kid · « **Reply #21 on:** June 13, 2009, 01:32:33 AM »

I also found out not to forget the the ones in your safe you don't use that much,take them out and oil them up a couple of times a year,I found out the hard way rust can hide from you.

SDS-GEN · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2009, 07:24:13 AM »

leather5to1 said "stainless is only a surface coating". This isn't true, stainless is an alloy. If stainless were only a coating your stainless knife's edge would rust after sharpening. Nickle, gold, rhodium, copper, palladium, chrome and like, all pure elements, can be plated onto an object, but not steel or ferrous metals.

4296 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 25, 2009, 04:34:32 AM »

While the advantages of stainless steel are clear, I too think firearms in SS have ZERO character- something to me that is very important. I am dissapointed that there is not a pratical bluing process (not a coating) avalible. My whitetail Ruger SS Bisley is FUGLY! Found someone on the web who blues SS- told I would be contacted when they had enough pieces to justify the work- that was 9 months ago. They also were unable to provide pictures of their work. This makes me feel that there still is no practical (affordable) process out there. Or maybe there just is no demand??

Bigeasy · « **Reply #24 on:** July 25, 2009, 06:14:18 AM »

4296

I believe the "Tenifer" finish Glock uses works with stainless. That finish is incredeble in its durability, much more so then blueing. I hear there are similiar finishes out there now available to the public. Back in the early 1980's, I was with the CSP, the issue S&W 66 .357 had a "blue" finish applied by the factory. Not sure what it was, but it worked fairly well, showing average holster wear.

Larry

S.B. · « **Reply #25 on:** July 25, 2009, 08:42:47 AM »

I've pheasant hunted in an Illinois thunderstorm with heavy rain and my shotgun doesn't show any signs of rust or corrosion, just clean and reoil when I got home.
Steve

Dave in WV · « **Reply #26 on:** July 25, 2009, 08:57:25 AM »

I don't put any firearm up wet. It's usually cooler outside than inside here during hunting seasons. I wipe the water off when I get them inside and then wait for them to warm up and then wipe them down. I leave the action open so the bore and action dries out . In cold weather if you leave moisture inside the action you may get a nasty surprise in freezing weather the next day. You can strip all oil off of a blued firearm and apply car paste wax for protection. You can remove the action from the stock, remove the scope, soak the barreled ation with gun oil and set it out in the sun. Reapply the oil as needed over several hours. The oil will get in the grain of the metal. It helps control rust.

I have two stainless bolt actions. One has a synthetic stock and the other a laminated one. My 7600 pump is blued/laminated. My firearms are tools to be used, not abused.

NZFS · « **Reply #27 on:** July 25, 2009, 09:24:05 PM »

I do a lot of hunting in 1" a day rain country.
Blued rifles will rust straight through the blue, no "scratches" needed.

In WW1 trenches the only requirement was a a clean bore, a pull through and oil was used and the rifle worked regardless of the external rust. The beauty of the Lee Enfield SMLE was that it was a near perfect design with the right "slop" to chew up debis and function.

No matter how much oil or proofing a wooden stock gets, 2 weeks in Fiordland will convert you to be a ss synthetic stock rifle user.

S.B. · « **Reply #28 on:** July 26, 2009, 03:06:25 AM »

What's proofing a wooden stock mean?
Steve

Drilling Man · « **Reply #29 on:** July 26, 2009, 04:25:49 AM »

Stainless is an "alloy" that comes in many grades. If it's pure stainless, a magnet won't stick or pull on it at all... Try a magnet on your gun...

I've spend weeks at a time, on the Alaska peninsula, where at times the weather will be unbeliviable. I've seen all kinds of rust, but not all blued guns rust the same. My drilling spent long hours in the rain/snow/freezing and thawing all on the same trip, and it just didn't rust! Why? beacuse the blued steel is "properly" rust blued, and a good rust blueing "really" resist rust. I never did more than wipe the bbls off to get the water droplets off it, same with a good color case. After more than 20 years, i sent my drilling in to have the triggers lightened, and to be given a through cleaning. The smith said it had NO rust inside, and just needed a minor cleaning...

I remember one brown bear hunt, where 3 guys came along. They were a sorry mess, their tent blown down, they were cold and one was shakeing bad from exposure! I let them stay in my camp, where one of them had a model 12 Winchester. He was sitting there crying, looking at how rusty "granpa's" shotgun was... I took a small piece of aluminum foil, crumpled it up, dipped it in bacon grease, and started in on the rust. He was shocked at how much rust that foil would take off, and he did the whole gun, saving it from needing a re blue.

Taking the metal out of the stock, putting paste wax on the metal, and putting it all back together does keep the rust as bay... This is a fairly common trick in Alaska, that we did waaaay back in the 70's... I've left guns for weeks like that, and cleaned them after the trip.

While halibut fishing, nothing keeps guns from rusting... Even some stainless guns will rust when a drop of salt water hits them and sits there a while... I use to carry a S&W M-18 22lr revolver a lot on salt water fishing trips. I had it "Nitexed" to keep the rust at bay, it worked pretty good, but it's NOT a great looking finish... Does anyone else have a gun that's Nitexed?

DM