Author Topic: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers  (Read 3845 times)

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Offline melloman

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Didn't Glock start this trigger within a trigger? Why not have a third trigger within the first two? Wouldn't that make it ever safer? How about a safety pedal in the middle of your cars gas and brake pedals for safety? Has anyone just taken off the safety trigger and its pin and spring? You could put a thin layer of epoxy down the face of the trigger and into the slot and a little on the back and have a nice smooth trigger face like a normal trigger. If you did this would men in black helicopters come for you in the middle of the night? I don't think that extra trigger really does anything.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Didn't Glock start this trigger within a trigger? Why not have a third trigger within the first two? Wouldn't that make it ever safer? How about a safety pedal in the middle of your cars gas and brake pedals for safety? Has anyone just taken off the safety trigger and its pin and spring? You could put a thin layer of epoxy down the face of the trigger and into the slot and a little on the back and have a nice smooth trigger face like a normal trigger. If you did this would men in black helicopters come for you in the middle of the night? I don't think that extra trigger really does anything.

If you “don't think that extra trigger really does anything” you have your head firmly planted in a dark and smelly place. 

First, they are not “extra triggers”, they are safety blades which help prevent accidental trigger release, especially with triggers that are tuned for a light pull. 

The old Savage triggers were fully adjustable and I took one down to about 3 pounds.  One day I had a cartridge that wouldn’t chamber and I removed it and chambered a different cartridge.  In the process I had worked the bolt back and forth several times, gloves on, and may have bumped the trigger.  When I later slipped the safety off I was surprised to hear a “Ka-BOOM” even though the gloves were then off and my finger was not on the trigger.  That was the only problem Iever had with that trigger but once was once too many.  The new AccuTrigger would have prevented that incident, as would Marlin’s Pro-Fire trigger.

Not everyone likes the new triggers and you are clearly one of them.  Nevertheless the AccuTrigger is perhaps the best factory trigger available today, especially in mainstream rifles.
Coyote Hunter
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Offline melloman

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Interesting, Coyote Hunter. I had a Savage with Accutrigger and the trigger pull was very good to me. I think what I don't like is a bunch of small extra parts that may go wrong. My favorite trigger is the 98 Mauser with just a few big steel parts.

Offline Swampman

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The problen with the Accu-Trigger is that if it isn't pulled correctly the rifle will not go off.  My friend's dad had 4 failures to fire in a row because he wasn't pulling the trigger straight back.  The rifle shot fine for the rest of us.  I wouldn't want one myself.

The current Remington 700 X-Mark trigger is the best available from the factory.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Skunk

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The problem with the Accu-Trigger is that if it isn't pulled correctly the rifle will not go off.  My friend's dad had 4 failures to fire in a row because he wasn't pulling the trigger straight back.

Gee whiz, if a guy isn't pulling a trigger correctly, maybe that says something in itself. The Accu-Trigger will at least help your friend's dad learn how to pull a trigger properly. I actually sort of like the Accu-Trigger because it requires proper technique. Well, that's my take on it anyway.

The current Remington 700 X-Mark trigger is the best available from the factory.

Swamper, I got my X-Mark on my little Remington .223 Tactical (feel sort of dumb calling it a Tactical, but that's what Remington named it) down to about 2.5 pounds without touching anything except the pull weight screw. Very crisp, no creep, perfect amount of over travel for proper follow through, no slam fires, no misfires when taking it off safety, and now the pull weight is staying consistent from shot to shot. I'm really liking it. But I have to say, my Savage with the Accu-Trigger came that way right from the factory without having to mess with it one bit.

First, they are not “extra triggers”, they are safety blades which help prevent accidental trigger release, especially with triggers that are tuned for a light pull.

+1 Coyote Hunter
Mike

"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" - Frank Loesser

Offline john keyes

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I tried out one of those triggers, dry fired a model 12 at a gun show.

I was impressed   :o
Though taken from established manufacturers' sources and presumed to be safe please do not use any load that I have posted. Please reference Hogdon, Lyman, Speer and others as a source of data for your own use.

Offline EVOC ONE

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"... Safety or pacifier for lawyers"

It may well be both.  Perhaps Savage figured out how to please the lawyers and give the firearms consumer a very nice factory trigger.  It could be wise for others to follow.  Marlin and Mossberg jumped in.

 ;)

Offline Old English

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I am absolutley amazed that anyone cannot use the accutrigger, in my mind it is unbelieveable. I presently have 3 rifles with accutriggers and they are excellent triggers, very difficult to find fault with them at all. So lets recap, nice light pull trigger which is user adjustable, totally safe as well. What is there to dislike about the accutrigger?

Offline Swampman

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The rifle may, or may not fire.  I see that as an issue.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Skunk

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The rifle may, or may not fire.  I see that as an issue.

I just don't see it as a big deal. You have to really be cranking it sideways for it to not fire. In your case, you could just take the safety blade off and it would no longer even be a factor.
Mike

"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" - Frank Loesser

Offline Swampman

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2009, 11:27:03 AM »
It wasn't a problem for me.  I just watched an experienced shooter pull the trigger 4 times in a row & nothing happened.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline trotterlg

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2009, 12:44:16 PM »
If the accutrigger was on a Remington then Swampman would think it was the best thing since sliced bread.  I have one on a 17 Remington Savage 10, and I have never had it fail to fire because of the safety trigger.  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2009, 01:20:08 PM »
The rifle may, or may not fire.  I see that as an issue.

Your friend's dad is the first person I've heard of who had a problem.  What is so hard about "straight back" which is standard for all triggers?  Pushing to one side is a good way to screw up accuracy.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Swampman

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2009, 01:31:01 PM »
I just think a real gimmick free trigger is the correct way to go.  I'm glad Remington has always had one.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2009, 01:41:17 PM »
I just think a real gimmick free trigger is the correct way to go.  I'm glad Remington has always had one.

Gimmick free but not glitch free.  And yes, I like Rems!
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2009, 01:54:12 PM »
I just think a real gimmick free trigger is the correct way to go.  I'm glad Remington has always had one.

For many years the Remington triggers had a real "gimmick" - one that caused people to get hurt and even killed.  Of course they denied it before they admitted it...
Coyote Hunter
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2009, 01:58:08 PM »
If (a big if) anyone was ever injured, it was because they violated the first rule of gun safety.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline john keyes

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2009, 02:18:49 PM »
on a Ruger Mark II you can lock the lever into a notch in the bolt.  safest safety ever IMHO
Though taken from established manufacturers' sources and presumed to be safe please do not use any load that I have posted. Please reference Hogdon, Lyman, Speer and others as a source of data for your own use.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2009, 05:05:27 PM »
If (a big if) anyone was ever injured, it was because they violated the first rule of gun safety.

No, in some cases it was because someone else did, at least once resulting in the death of an innocent bystander.

Human negligence was a contributing factor, no doubt.  So was Remington's poor trigger design, something Remington was well aware of as became clear in the court cases.
Coyote Hunter
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Offline grout-scout

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2009, 05:29:34 PM »
Well, I'm not a gun nut like some of you but I have 4 Winchesters (4 crap triggers) 2 Remingtons ( 2 crap triggers) 1 Thompson Center ( decent trigger) and 3 Marlins ( zero creep and easy to set). Give me a little blade any day if it will improve the trigger!

Offline Skunk

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2009, 02:59:48 AM »
Well, I'm not a gun nut like some of you but I have 4 Winchesters (4 crap triggers)...

The Winchester triggers have some excellent potential, Grout. They are easy to adjust and are superb once adjusted correctly. Take one of your Winchesters to a smith and have him adjust it. I'll bet you'll be pleased with the results.
Mike

"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" - Frank Loesser

Offline grout-scout

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2009, 04:25:15 PM »
Will do Skunkster, I love 3 of the Wins., they just have a lot of creep and feel inconsistent. I still like the Marlin triggers though.

Offline Augustis

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2009, 05:40:23 AM »
If (a big if) anyone was ever injured, it was because they violated the first rule of gun safety.

Swamp

AGAIN one MUST consider the source of the rule, and the intent of the message ... Which amounts to a defensive measure  developed in part by Remington through a means of blaming the owner/customer of a Remington rifle for the accident.

Remington has had safety related issues with their connector design fire control since day one, with the introduction of the M/721 in March of 1948. Wayne Leek identified a "Dangerous Condition" to exist in the design as early as April of 1947, about 11 months before the production was released to the public. Although there was a special category of M/700 rifles manufactured before Jan of 1975 that is continually being reference, that were NEVER recalled. These effected rifles have dimensional/tolerance stack up conditions and potential defects that compound deeper underlying design issues. Again, As to the estimated effected rifles... Remington estimated that 1% of 2 million rifles in the field were susceptible to what they termed "the trick condition" and would subsequently fire on safety release under certain manipulation criteria.

In a Jan. 2, 1979 PSSC record which goes on the say "That would mean a recall would have to gather 2 million rifles JUST to find 20,000" rifles susceptible to the trick condition". And, "would undercut the message Remington planned to communicate to the public concerning safe gun handling," instead of recalling the effected rifles already in the field, referencing the Feb 23 1979 PSSC records concerning the issue of "safe gun handling" and "the Trick Condition" : this message was communicated to the public through SAAMI in 1979: "PSSC" = Product Safety Sub-Committee Records

1) always keep the muzzle pointed in a SAFE direction

2) Never trust a safety which is a mechanical device and can fail (Half safe is Unsafe)

3) Never touch the trigger while the safety is in the ON safe position.

A Hemmm...

There was not any time, then or now, specific mention of Remington connector fire control susceptibility to these functional factors that could potentially result in an inadvertent discharge.

It was Remington's position (Then and now) that it should not matter if there was a potential defect in these effected rifles in the field, if the first rule of safe gun handling was ALWAYS observed, no injury or death should be attributable to these conditions that lead to several forms of malfunctions that would ultimately cause the inadvertent discharges, which are beyond the control of the gun handler. In their opinion human error was the main cause of these forms of accidents even if the rifle may fire without trigger contact being made.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2009, 11:01:05 AM »
Rule #1 - Never point a gun at anything you don't want to put a hole in.

Don't violate the rule, and nobdy get hurt or killed.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline helotaxi

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2009, 04:49:28 PM »
Amazing that people compare Remington quality favorably to Ruger in light of this, and use the SR9 recall as basis.  The SR9 recall was based entirely on a discovery and probably 1:1,000,000 occurrence of intentional mishandling by a Ruger technician.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2009, 07:14:55 PM »
Rule #1 - Never point a gun at anything you don't want to put a hole in.

Don't violate the rule, and nobdy get hurt or killed.

Not necessarily true.  Slipping a Remington safety of has been the cause of untold numbers of "fire on release" situations.  Even if the rifle isn't pointed in an inappropriate direction, ricochets could cause severe harm to someone.

Never mind that a saftey that allows a firearm to fire on its release, as the Remingtons have done, is an inherehently unsafe and piss-poor design.  Remington knew about the problem and simply decided it would be cheaper to pay off the lawsuits.

Bury your head a little deeper, don't let the light of reality bother you...
Coyote Hunter
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2009, 11:58:50 PM »
When shade tree gunsmiths try to adjust triggers, this is what happens.  People put holes in someting they pointed the gun at.  It happens with all brands.  I just don't want a rifle that doesn't go off when the trigger is pulled.  That's why I don't buy Savage rifles.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2009, 02:19:20 AM »
When shade tree gunsmiths try to adjust triggers, this is what happens.  People put holes in someting they pointed the gun at.  It happens with all brands.  I just don't want a rifle that doesn't go off when the trigger is pulled.  That's why I don't buy Savage rifles.

Not all of the problems were encountered after adjustment by “shade tree gunsmiths” and regardless, the triggers had a problem that Remington was well aware of and chose to ignore.

Having owned and fired a number of Savage rifles, I have yet to be aware of any issues with failure to fire and am aware of only a couple that were easily fixed by cleaning and lubing the bolt release lever.  Unlike the Remington triggers for several decades, there is nothing unsafe about the design of the Savage trigger or safety.  Frankly, I would rather have a rifle that failed to fire when desired than one that fired when the safety was released.  When I got an M700 with the faulty trigger design the first thing I did was send it off to Remington for the safety fix.
Coyote Hunter
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Offline Skunk

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2009, 05:05:42 AM »
I just don't want a rifle that doesn't go off when the trigger is pulled.  That's why I don't buy Savage rifles.

That's simply hilarious Swamper!  Now just remember, proper marksmanship requires that a trigger be pulled straight back. Not left or right and back, but straight back. ;)
Mike

"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" - Frank Loesser

Offline john keyes

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Re: Savage accutrigger/marlin xl7 trigger- Safety or pacifier for lawyers
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2009, 07:49:38 AM »
per the theme of this discussion, thats why I own revolvers and not semiauto pistols


what year 700's are defective?  do I need to send mine back? I have a couple 700 MTN LSS mfd probably in 06-07 or so...
Though taken from established manufacturers' sources and presumed to be safe please do not use any load that I have posted. Please reference Hogdon, Lyman, Speer and others as a source of data for your own use.