Author Topic: I'm confused? Is 308 enough? (Read 3082 times)

Freezer · « **on:** June 06, 2009, 06:34:35 PM »

A friend invited me on an evening pig hunt. I took my Savage 99 chambered in 308 with a 2x7 Leupold. The load was 46 gr. of Varget under a 165 gr Sierra Game King moving at 2850fps. We saw a heard of pigs and dismounted in time to see them cross in front of us at 50 yrds. I passed on the first two and took a neck shot at the third figuring if I miss judged the shot it would hit the chest. I believe I hit the shoulder. The pig dropped in it's tracks and I began to scope other pigs. My friend didn't shoot and when I went to where I shot the pig it was gone. There was no blood where I saw him drop. Mark went above the ravine and I went low trying to locate them. After half an hour I retrned to where I dropped it and began to track it. Thirty yards in the ravine I found my first blood. After 100 yrds I lost the trail at a cross intersection. We searched all three paths witout finding any blood. I know I hit it high in the chest. Where's the blood? Did I use the wrong bullet? Is 308 not enough? Is that just the way it goes with pigs? I'm confused I thought I hit it good, I don't take junk shots. I have a 450 Marlin but don't like it after thre shoulder surgeries but I'm reconsidering it.

STexhunter · « **Reply #1 on:** June 06, 2009, 07:25:51 PM »

Probably just a bad hit. I shot too far back with a 30/06 one time and had to track it in the thick south Texas brush country, but I found it dead about 150 yds in. You may have hit it in the shoulder. As you probably know they have a thick plate of grisel and hid on their shoulders and it will sometimes closes back up on bullet holes. I have known a lot of large hogs killed with a 22lr. The old 30/30 is used a lot in our brush for hogs and it works good. Down here if you can't kill it with a 270, 308 or 30/06 you probably don't need to be shooting at it. The 308 should work fine as I said probably just a bad hit.

41 mag · « **Reply #2 on:** June 07, 2009, 12:59:47 AM »

You absolutely have enough gun and bullet for hogs. The thing is where you hit it. From the sounds of it, you probably hit through the onside shoulder and the bullet lodged under the offside shoulder, or you went high through the abdomen.

The fat and hide on them will plug the hole up a lot of times in the mid sections, an not allow much of a blood trail, same issue with only one sided penetration. The hide or surrounding fat will cover up the entry hole and not allow them to bleed.

I use a Ruger Compact and 150gr Remington Cl's for about 98% of my hog hunting with a rifle. Most times, unless it is a head shot or a smaller hog, I do not get much of a blood trail even with a complete pass through.

For heart and lung shots most folks shoot too far back on hogs, their kill zone is more forward than other critters.

I had a similar experience to your last Thanksgiving. I got on two sows that were roughly 200# each and busted them out of their beds. The first broke out across an open cotton field, the other broke right and into a ditch out of sight. I swung, centered, and fired on the one in the cotton field rolling it head over hind end into a dusty flop. The second came out of the ditch about 50 yards down and caught the second round in behind the right shoulder and out through the front of the left drooping instantly as well. As I walked over to the first, there was nothing there. No hair, blood, and anything but a big scuff mark in the dirt where it hit and rolled. Looked for it for close to an hour and still nothing. Loaded up the second and headed in. Back in February, I was over there again with my 454, and walked up on another pack in their beds. Got two right off the bat before they even got to threir feet, and another on it's way out. When we loaded the second one up there was something about that just wasn't right. Upon further inspection, we found close to a 12" gash down the top of it's back, right along the side of the spine. Turned out to be the one I hit back in Nov. that had made it fine up till then. The wound was still not completely healed and had some infection so we decided to forgo anything further. Still it goes to show how tough and resilient a critter they are.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #3 on:** June 07, 2009, 01:55:20 AM »

I don't know whether the Sierra Game King 165 grain bullet traveling 2,800+ fps is the right choice for hogs or not. IMO, you were probably well over the ballistics needed to "do the job" di minimus (in the least possible way).

In general, I think that slower lumbering bullets pack a wallop on hogs better than their hotter faster cousins...not withstanding where you hit them as others have said. Putting a hole in both the entrance and exit side of a hog is more often than not a very good thing, but no guarantee of a blood trail or a successful recovery.

Imparting disruptive energy on its passing is what a good caliber hog bullet should do vs. small hole in and out (or no hole out). Fast bullets that fall apart on impact from rotational forces, light and thin outer jackets, lack of core retention, lack of penetration, etc. just make for trouble in a hog hunting environment.

None of the bullet "failings" described mean anything if a good shot from a steady rest is made. For example, a bullet moving so fast that it "turns to dust" on impact is going to leave a mark if it is placed where it can do the most damage.

BBF · « **Reply #4 on:** June 07, 2009, 06:50:22 AM »

Very informative posts. Resolves my choice of cartridges for hogs when the opportunity arrives.

Freezer · « **Reply #5 on:** June 07, 2009, 06:59:26 AM »

As I study the anatomy I see I hit it in the shoulder and maybe above the lung since I was trying for a neck shot. It was running with it's head on the same level as it's back. I sitill have a hard time believing I didn't break it down. I looked at Sierra's page and they have a Pro Hunter line of bullets. Maybe I'll switch to them. What bullets would you suggest?

BBF · « **Reply #6 on:** June 07, 2009, 07:37:51 AM »

In 30 cal for hogs and bears I would prefer a 180 gr RN
Since you have a 450 Marlin would it be financially( dies etc) and healthwise( shoulder) beneficial for you to reload that caliber to something similar to a standard 45-70 level?

It would be my choice above a 30 cal.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** June 07, 2009, 07:45:18 AM »

Here's a great site for hog info including actual hog anatomy pics.

Tim

http://texasboars.com/anatomy.html

S_J_KENNELS · « **Reply #8 on:** June 07, 2009, 01:35:58 PM »

THe 308 is plenty of gun. We kill alot of hogs with the 308 round using REM Corelokts in 150 gn.

alsaqr · « **Reply #9 on:** June 07, 2009, 02:29:38 PM »

The .308 is a good hog rifle. My favorite .308 handload uses the 150 grain Sierra Game King bullet: It kills hogs really well. If a hog is broadside put the bullet in the ear or on a line between the ear and the eye.

Hogs are not that hard to kill when they are shot right. Shoot them in the guts with a .338 Winchester magnum and they run off. Most of my hogs have been killed with a .50 caliber muzzleloader.

I often hunt hogs on 14,000 acres of restricted gun land. In small game season we are limited to rimfire rifles on that place. I use a .22 magnum and the CCI 40 grain FMJ ammo. My shots are picked carefully and the hogs usually bang flop. Have killed hogs that weighed over 225 pounds with my .22 magnum.

This boar was killed with my .22 magnum-bang flop.

Mohawk · « **Reply #10 on:** June 07, 2009, 03:40:09 PM »

41 mag · « **Reply #11 on:** June 07, 2009, 06:08:30 PM »

Freezer,

I have been shooting the Remington 150gr CL's almost exclusively from my short Compact .308. Mainly due to I was getting them at about $10 a box, and just never worked up anything to replace them . The shot close enough at 100 ad 200 to call it good for me, and have dropped just about everything I put a good hit on in it's tracks.

One that you might try if your having issues with your shoulder, that has shot very well for me, is the 150 or 170gr CL made for the .30-30. These you can drop the load down a bit and still have plenty of punch, and guarantee expansion as well.

Hogs can be taken with a number of firearms with the proper shots, but they are tough buggers as well and can tote a good lick off in a hurry. When we first started to really hit them hard we ended up trailing a bunch into the thick stuff for a finishing shot. We learned however as has been mentioned to shoot for the head and front of the body and that rally has made the biggest difference in how far they go after the initial hit. I generally try to shoot to the offside shoulder from which ever angle I get on them. IF broadside and still I will ear hole them, but moving through the brush, I settle the horizontal wire on their center line and put the vertical on their head or nose, and let the games begin.

You have plenty of gun, and as bad as you feel that one got away, don't beat yourself up overly due to it. It happens and even to folks who shoot them all the time.

Freezer · « **Reply #12 on:** June 09, 2009, 11:30:05 AM »

Thanks Tim, thats a good web site. The shot was too high

I may have cliped the lung but I'll never know. That web site suggests 180 gr partitioned bullets.

Default · « **Reply #13 on:** June 10, 2009, 06:29:57 AM »

Freeze,

I dont have any experience with the Game King line from Sierra , I do how every have plenty experience with hogs and losing them too .. Made a 35 yard hit on what I suspect to be a 200+ pounder with a 250 gr Speer Gold-Dot HP bullet out of my 45LC lever action , Shoulder strike *bang-flop* And Then back to the hoove and off to the races it went... Took 30 minutes and 50 yards to locate the first blood , after several hours of tracking a one sided blood trail ( was only getting blood from the entrance side , I conclude no exit hole due to the trail) and low and behold after all was said and done the trail faded and the animal was lost.. This was before I was reloading for the 45 LC , Now it punches out a 250gr cast RNFP and I havent gotten on game since that hunt with this rifle ... But my big bore weapon was fine for the 150 and down wt. pigs easy pass through just not on the bigger hogs..

Next trip out I took my 270 WSM using the Win. Supreme 130 gr ballistic tips ... It at 40 maybe 45 yards connected with a 125 pound pig and left a 5 foot trail of blood and lung etc. out the exit side of the animal .. The animal fell backwards it direction of travel about 7 foot and was DOA .

But since those trips I have read that with certain calibers it is best to look for a neck or head shot .. I would in my belief think a 308 to be perfect medicine for pigs of any size, I say this because it was a 150 gr. Hornady inter-bond ballistic tipped 308 that I used to down my first buffalo with (1400+) , both shots fired were pass throughs... I think in most hunting situations that a Nosler partition is a superior bullet , Its Rep. is forged in african game hunts

and is just a well designed bullet..

But that aside it looks like you have found the shot placement to be the culprit .... Like you read with a .452 caliber bullet that grissle plate and fat can hide a 45+ caliber entrance hole from bleeding to much so dont feel to bad , Have been told before those hogs dont like to bleed this just re-enforces that that I already know, shot placement is key..

Good luck on the next hunt. It happens to us all at some point ,

Default

Hodr · « **Reply #14 on:** June 10, 2009, 08:11:35 AM »

Last time in Texas I used a 357 winchester for hogs in brush and went three hogs for three shots out to 50 yards. I did cheat a little and used buffalo bores. I bought a 308 handi for elk in Az this year and as soon as the season is over I plan to swap out to a 45-70 barrel and take a trip back to Texas. Now I am going to have to try the 308 also.

blindhari

Freezer · « **Reply #15 on:** June 10, 2009, 01:55:02 PM »

I'm just disapointed. That was my first shot at a pig. As I repalyed the shot in my head I could see where I went wrong. I didn't have enough room to get a good lead before he headed into the ravine. I took a shot the same way I would have a deer. Bad mistake! There were other pigs that ran by and I had another round in the chamber but I had one tag and thought the first was DOA. I never saw him get up! If I had I would have lit him up! I'm not bragging but I've never wounded an animal, I missed once when my foot slipped as I pulled the trigger but never.... Next time I'll aim a lot lower or take a head shot. I'm also buying premium bullets. It's kind of a bummer those 165 gr Game Kings put 5 shots on a dime at 100 yrds.

rickt300 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 10, 2009, 06:44:05 PM »

I think it would be a neat trick to get 2800fps out of a 165 grain bullet in a 308 with a model 99. I have used the 165 grain BTHP rom Sierra on a bunch of animals including hogs and I find this bullet a bit tougher than the Pro Hunter version of the Gameking. I probably get pretty close to 2800fps out of my 30-06 with it and find this load to be a devastating wound creator with lots of penetration. I think you might of hit a bit high and slightly stunned the spine knocking the pig down for a bit before he took off. Blaming the bullet when you didn't recover the animal is always wrong.

Freezer · « **Reply #17 on:** June 11, 2009, 02:46:25 AM »

This 99 has had some touch ups, trigger litened and barrel polished. The load is a max load but doesn't show presure signs. My son and I were doing our first load work up for acuracy, this was the most acurate. We set the chrony to calculate down range trajectory. We were shocked but I'm not complaining.
I'm dumfounded by the lack of blood trail. I've shot deer with this load it leaves a great wound channel and drops them in their tracks. Alas I wasn't hunting deer and as fast as this whole thing transpired I didn't have much time to think and shot it like a deer. Bad shot.

BBF · « **Reply #18 on:** June 11, 2009, 03:39:08 AM »

blindhari:
I am confused with the 357 Winchester, is this a typo and you meant 375 Win?

Hodr · « **Reply #19 on:** June 12, 2009, 07:10:39 AM »

Hello BBF
My Texas Hog hunter is a Winchester 94 trapper carbine chambered in .357 magnum. When I use Buffalo Bore cartridges I tend to get one shot kills out to about 60-70 yards. I have always found that I am a better snapshot with a ghost ring, although I can use a scope. I have a .308 handi for larger game. Sorry about the confusion,

blindhari

BBF · « **Reply #20 on:** June 13, 2009, 06:48:32 AM »

Got it.

LunaticFringeInc · « **Reply #21 on:** June 13, 2009, 08:51:08 PM »

The .308 Winchester is plenty of gun to anchor a hog. Put a properly constructed bullet where it should go and it will work wonders on even a hog on the large side. A 180 gr Partition would be an excellent bullet to use to achieve this end.

41 mag · « **Reply #22 on:** June 14, 2009, 03:35:35 AM »

Freezer,

Hey bud don't beat yourself up too much. I understand your feelings, but it happens, you learned from it, and next time will be better.

As to your load, I personally believe it is fine just the way it is. I shoot the Ruger Compact with a 16.5" barrel. Factory Remington or really any factory stuff, will only get tops 2650fps or so from it with 150gr bullets.

I have taken big hogs with one shot out to ranges past 400yds with this same ammo, so I know what your shooting will work. Granted I did hit just where I was shooting but still in all, at 200+ yards the 150gr is loosing ground fast from my little popper.

This one was taken when I had the Hogue stock mount on it, at 285'ish yards. I put it literally right in her ear hole. Took two of us and a flashlight to finally figure out where it hit. There was no blood, simply a small hole deep in the ear canal. At first I figured I just scared her to death.

and this old bruiser was at 400+yds. It required a follow up due to me not allowing for the wind, but he hit the ground and stayed put. Similar to your shot, I wasn't expecting to even see a hog, and when we did, we were out on the side of an open hill and no way to close the distance with out him hitting the cover. The grandson told me I could hit him so I did.

Good luck with your loads, but I would give them another chance before calling it quits.

Dee · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2009, 02:00:36 PM »

Is the 308 enough for hogs? Well, it's enough for elk, and other larger critters. It is not hard to kill a hog. They have no mystical powers, as some portray them, but hit a fat one bad, and the fat sometimes plugs the hole, leaving very little blood. Or so they tell me. I've personally never lost one. I downed one a couple years ago that a friend hit high with a 3040 Krag, and didn't even know she was hit till I started dressin her. She weighed about 375 lbs, and the hit high in the back (about three to four inches from the back strap) never slowed her down.
I switch back and forth between a Model 92 Winchester clone in 357 mag, and an AR15 in 223. Neck shots when I can, and punch the ribs when I can't.

superdep · « **Reply #24 on:** August 01, 2009, 02:29:31 AM »

From what I've read, the .308 should be perfect. However, being one of those who just HAS to have an excuse to buy another rifle, I picked up a steel receiver BLR in .358 Win. Factory stuff is a 200 gr. softpoint and I ordered some 225 gr Nosler Partition loads from Conley Precision........hopefully, these will give me some pretty good "bang flops"....lol......

Chappers · « **Reply #25 on:** August 18, 2009, 03:22:19 AM »

Mate, .308 is plenty i just got back from a hunt when i got a pig with my .308 in the centre of the neck (pic and story http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,180181.0.html ). That was the first shot...i would not blame the calibre. Think of it this way, there are stories of people getting shot in the head or being impaled and live... the human body or a resilient and remarkable thing just like any other living thing.

rem700-3 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 24, 2009, 02:06:42 PM »

These found a .223 55 gr sp to be quiet substantial Yes the little guy on the bottom killed that one himself, he is 4

rem700-3 · « **Reply #27 on:** August 24, 2009, 02:20:55 PM »

This 85 pound pig was really impressed at 135 yards with a 55 gr sp.....I think a 308 is plenty!

Feddog82 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 24, 2009, 02:26:37 PM »

"I have never used anything other than a .243 with 100gr remington core-lokt PSPs when hunting for hogs and I have never had a hog take a step after shooting it. Maybe I am just lucky. But I must ad that I will not shoot at any animal that is on the move (unless it's a bird in flight). It is purely unethical and loaded with bad judgement. No matter how good of a shot you are when an animal is moving the chances of something going wrong increase ten fold. If an animal is calm and still when fired upon you have an amazing increase in ability to place the shot where you intend to. This type of situation keeps the animal from reacting to the shot and loading the circulatory system with adrenaline and other hormones which make the final butchered product a lot less enjoyable than a calm clean kill."
----JUST MY OPINION

cwlongshot · « **Reply #29 on:** August 24, 2009, 02:28:38 PM »

These guys are all wet.. your first thought was correct. The 308 is not big enough for the pigs you shoot....at.

Sorry man, had to do it... I think you KNOW its enough. The way I see it, you took a high percentage shot and it didn't pay off. Simple as that, dont beat yourself up. Next time, take your time, place your shots in VITAL areas. FORGET NECK and HEAD shots on moving critters. Check that just forget them all together!! Aim small, miss small.

CW