Author Topic: Mod 94 Love 'em or hate 'em (Read 2628 times)

scootrd · « **on:** June 08, 2009, 05:11:37 AM »

It's interesting to read all the posts regarding the model 94 Winchester rifle.
Each post usually starts with citing all the problems each owner has had regarding this rile
Then usually end with
even though I have had so may issues with mine I will never part with it!!!!.
Owners Definitely have a love/hate relationship with this lever action.

In your opinion,

what was the best model/cal 94 you have ever owned?

jlchucker · « **Reply #1 on:** June 08, 2009, 07:27:54 AM »

30-30 Winchester, beyond a doubt. The best I've owned are sitting in my gun safe. There's a carbine and a full-length rifle and both are a joy to carry and shoot. But no more or less than my Marlins in 30-30, 35 Remington, and 45-70. Each has its purpose for me. I've also got a couple of 44 mag leverguns (EMF 92 rifle and Winchester trapper). If I had it to do over, I'd have bought the EMF as a 92 carbine with 20 inch barrel in 357 mag. I wouldn't part with any of the pieces mentioned above. Somehow, though, 30-30's, even if never shot by their owners, are such a part of Americana that it's almost a patriotic requirement for country boys (and girls) to own them. The exception is the crappy commemoratives that Winchester used to come out with at one time, nearly weekly. IMO they were a tacky effort which exemplified the tastelessness of an otherwise fine old American company. On the other hand, a fine, plain, wood-stocked 94 or Marlin 336almost tells its own story. Too bad that Marlin leaves the slenderizing of the big fat forearm up to the owners, though.

243dave · « **Reply #2 on:** June 08, 2009, 11:00:01 AM »

I've always liked the slimmed downed forearms of the winchesters. Both win and marlin makes a fine lever but my favorite is my winchester 94 45colt trapper. Its a angle eject with a tang safety. As a hunting arm its perfect(small and powerful) but for cowboy shooting it may not be ideal. I have to admit those model 92's are slick and the short throw on the lever is a bit faster. Bottom line is I love my 94 trapper even if it is a angle eject with a tang safety, I'll never get ride of it, its hits hard and always dependable---plus I enjoy shooting it more than my ar-15. Dave

Swampman · « **Reply #3 on:** June 08, 2009, 11:33:12 AM »

I really like the Model 94. I prefer the Marlin 336.

Mikey · « **Reply #4 on:** June 09, 2009, 12:51:45 AM »

The best model 94 I ever owned??? Still have them. Got 5: 2 30-30s and 3 444s. Will I part with these - naw. I just need to sit down and load up a bunch of ammo just to get them back out and shoot them. Same with the 444s. The 444 from a Winchester 94 is pretty awesome.

NickSS · « **Reply #5 on:** June 09, 2009, 12:56:17 AM »

I like both the Marlin and Winchester lever guns and have several of each. As for the 94 my first one was a brand new mid 60s one with stamped sheet metal parts. I thought the rifle so abismal that I would not touch a 94 for years after that. However, in the mid 70s I needed a cheap deer rifle so went around looking at hock shops for one. I found a used 94 30-30 that was available at an attractive price. Since then I have added about six addtional ones to my collection in different calibers. The only one that I had issues with was an angle eject in 357 mag. I broke two cartridge lifters when the rifle double feed during cowboy action shoots. After I fixed it I sold the rifle.

Oldtimer · « **Reply #6 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:29:05 AM »

There is no perfect rifle. Every ever made has its peculiarities. The important thing is that the arm fit your hunting and shooting practices. For close-in hunting on your two hind legs or a horse, a 94 is well suited to the task. When you move away from this model, then there are going to be problems. I also had feed problems with a Chief Crazy Horse in .38-55. It would not even feed the factory loads. It was designed to sit in a safe, so feeding was not a priority. I went against design and actually wanted to shoot the thing. I sent it back to the factory, they corrected the problem and I have a fine shooter.

My favorite 94 is a Timber Carbine that just fits me perfectly. My least favorite is a Trapper in .44 Magnum. I missed a deer because I got flustered after trying three shots before realizing I had to take the safety off. The Timber Carbine also has the safety, but it fits so well, I have learned to live with it. Essentially the same gun, but different experiences.

243dave · « **Reply #7 on:** June 09, 2009, 02:47:38 AM »

Oldtimer I agree the safeties are a bit irratating and I've learned to live with'em too. They haven't cost me losing any game but I'm a little embarrased at the range when I forget to take off the safety(it still happens from time to time). Normally when hunting as soon as I load up I put the safety in the fire position and leave it till its time to unload. If I don't I'll do the samething you did with your 44 trapper. Like you said "there is no perfect rifle". Dave

bluecow · « **Reply #8 on:** June 09, 2009, 04:14:26 AM »

.32 win that was made in 37/38. stock a little cared from a house fire, no but plate or enough wood to put one on. still my favorite rifle.

mannyrock · « **Reply #9 on:** June 09, 2009, 05:16:27 AM »

Hmm, sorry to end this Love-Fest :-)

Model 94s? I hate em.

Rattle, clatter, shimmy. Very sloppy actions.

Nostalgia? In fact, they were invented LONG AFTER the taming of the West and the closing of the frontier, so the image that they are an old west cowboy gun is sheer fantasy, mainly from grade B Hollywood westerns and the advertising campaigns of Winchester. No, they weren't used on cattle drives. No, they weren't used to fight Indians. No, they weren't used to supress gunfighters in cattle towns. They were, first and foremost, a farmer's rifle, or a cattle rancher's rifle, or a rifle used in the deep woods of the East to hunt deer. Sure, many were carried on horseback by folks repairing wire fences and hunting in the West, but for every one of those rifles, there were probably ten of them sitting in closets back East, owned by townspeople and factory workers who wore red plaid coats and hats, and used the rifles for their once a year deer hunts.

If, when holding a Model 94, you feel like a Cowboy, then you are reflecting on a fantasy, arising from a lifetime of seeing false movies and ad campaigns, . . . not reality.

And, when the Model 94 is compared to its closest competitor, a straight-stocked Marilin 336, there is no comparison. The Marlin 336 is crisp, quiet, locks up tight, better built, and in general far more accurate.

Regards,

Mannyrock

jlchucker · « **Reply #10 on:** June 09, 2009, 06:40:59 AM »

Quote from: mannyrock on June 09, 2009, 05:16:27 AM

Hmm, sorry to end this Love-Fest :-)

Model 94s? I hate em.

Rattle, clatter, shimmy. Very sloppy actions.

Nostalgia? In fact, they were invented LONG AFTER the taming of the West and the closing of the frontier, so the image that they are an old west cowboy gun is sheer fantasy, mainly from grade B Hollywood westerns and the advertising campaigns of Winchester. No, they weren't used on cattle drives. No, they weren't used to fight Indians. No, they weren't used to supress gunfighters in cattle towns. They were, first and foremost, a farmer's rifle, or a cattle rancher's rifle, or a rifle used in the deep woods of the East to hunt deer. Sure, many were carried on horseback by folks repairing wire fences and hunting in the West, but for every one of those rifles, there were probably ten of them sitting in closets back East, owned by townspeople and factory workers who wore red plaid coats and hats, and used the rifles for their once a year deer hunts.

If, when holding a Model 94, you feel like a Cowboy, then you are reflecting on a fantasy, arising from a lifetime of seeing false movies and ad campaigns, . . . not reality.

And, when the Model 94 is compared to its closest competitor, a straight-stocked Marilin 336, there is no comparison. The Marlin 336 is crisp, quiet, locks up tight, better built, and in general far more accurate.

Regards,

Mannyrock

I agree with your posting to a point, Mannyrock. For those who wish to indulge in a cowboy-indian fantasy, the 94 isn't really a good choice. I didn't grow up in the west so I can't say much about what may have been used in that area in the period after the closing of the frontier and World War I but I guess plenty of folks may have used them out there then. Here, in my stomping grounds, Northern New England before the invasion of the downcountry grainola crunchers, hippies, and left-wingers, there was pretty much a 94 or comparable Marlin behind most kitchen doors--along with the inevitable break-top single barrel shotgun. Uses: deer, black bear, and other things. Maybe nostalgia for that--sure. I for one don't even think about cowboys when I use my 94's. I just remember my own hunts, and the hunters who went out, ( on foot as opposed to sitting their fat butts on ATV's), that hunted my area during the previous century--as well as their descendants who still do. I'm not at all ashamed of my nostalgia for my home as I grew up in it. By the way, I have a straight-grip Marlin that was made before Marlin got foolish with forearm wood and pistol grips. It handles as well as any of my Winchesters, shoots as well as most, and, by the way, happens to be a 35 Remington. None of my Marlins (30-30, 35 Rem, and 45-70) will shoot any better than my octagon-barrelled 30-30 Model 94. As well, perhaps--but not better.

Sorry to interrupt your hate-fest. If you shoot cast bullets, an off-the-shelf 94 will, without as much load development, generally group a bit tighter than a 336 (not counting the Ballard-rifled cowboy models). Both will kill deer, bear, and a lot of other game equally dead.

Rangr44 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:32:10 AM »

[what was the best model/cal 94 you have ever owned? ]

No bout adout it - A pre-safety .356 BB94AE.

.

scootrd · « **Reply #12 on:** June 09, 2009, 08:00:15 AM »

My understanding was the "real Wild west" began somewhere in the mid 1860's and probably ended somewhere in the 1890's or so.
with it's hey day in the 70's and 80's . A relatively short period of time.

I know it's coined the model 1873 is the rifle that 'Won the west" But not being a historian I wonder why when the 1866 must have travelled west as well, and what about the model 1876?, what role did it play?

Historians in the know chime in?

Also, wasn't it the the model 1892 John Wayne used in all his westerns not the '94?.

inquiring minds want to know

mannyrock · « **Reply #13 on:** June 09, 2009, 11:53:14 AM »

Hey Scooter,

OK. You asked, and here is the answer, straight from an old History Major, Duke University (i.e., me)

The Wild West closed LONG before the late 1890s. Here are the important dates:

1849 - The start of the California Gold Rush, creating the first truly massive migration across the West. Perhaps the Wild West started then? Some say it did.

1866 - Although certain cattle drives were reported as early as 1849, the first large scale cattle drive is generally considered to be the drive from Brownsville, Texas, to Sedalia, Missouri, which occurred in 1866.

1869 - The first Transcontinental Railroad is completed. (Meaning, you could ride in a traincar across the entire U.S.!)

1876 - Death of Custer.

1877 - Last battle with the Sioux, destruction of the Sioux Nation, death of Crazy Horse.

The early 1880s, Cattle Drives are over. There are railroad lines everywhere. No need to drive your cattle across the plains.

1883 -The Capture of Geronimo

1890 - The U.S. Census Bureau announces that, based on population density across the U.S., the western frontier is officially "closed."

1890 - Massacre at Wounded Knee. (originally called the "Battle" of Wounded Knee). A large loosely-knit band of Sioux and related tribes are massacred after being rounded up for performing the "Ghost Dance," which had been forbidden by the Department of Indian Affairs.

That was it. The Wild West was over. Were there a few outlaws still around? Yea, but then there have alwasy been outlaws.

As an advertising ploy, the 1873 Winchester (which I believe was still being made into the very early 1900s?) was called "The Gun that Won the West," by the Winchester Company. Sorry. NOT.

The guns that Won the West were the 1853 Colt Navy Revolver, the Sharps big bore falling block rifle, the Henry lever action rifle, the Winchester 1866, and the 10 and 12 gauge single and double barreled shotguns.

By the time the 1873 Winchester was produced and shipped in significant numbers (being 1874 and 1875), the vast majority of the West was pretty well won. The Sioux Nation was destroyed the following year.

Interestingly, I read an article one time that showed that the per capita murder rate of people living on the frontier in the old West was far less than our murder rate today in large cities such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, and L.A. Back then, murder was rare, and it was a very big deal. It was not tolerated. When it occurred, the killers were hunted down and hung!

Why did John Wayne carry a Winchester 92 in most of his movies? I read a biography ten years ago, where Wayne was asked the same question, and he said that he preferred to carry the smaller 92 instead of the larger 94, because it made him look bigger on the screen.

Regards,

Mannyrock

scootrd · « **Reply #14 on:** June 09, 2009, 12:44:07 PM »

Very cool ...
Thanks for taking the time to respond Mannyrock

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #15 on:** June 09, 2009, 02:59:35 PM »

Well, can't say as I hate em, but I sold a 94 30-30 recently and kept the Marlin 30-30. I still have a 94 Trapper in 45 Colt that has served well, but not as smooth as my Pumas or Marlins. I pretty much like em all, just some better than others. DP

filmokentucky · « **Reply #16 on:** June 09, 2009, 03:55:13 PM »

The Colt Navy is generally referred to as the 1851 Colt Navy, not the 1853. The Trapdoor Springfield saw quite a bit of use on the frontier too as did a number of lesser known breechloaders and a great many muzzleloaders. Colt's New Model Army of 1860 and Remington's C&B revolver were in wide use as was the 1873 Winchester and the Colt S.A.A. of 1873. One brand not mentioned in historical writings is the Marlin--it arrived too late to be a factor.

While the date usually given for the closing of the frontier is 1890, this is more a beaureacratic convenience than an absolute fact. A curtain did not descend and suddenly the west became a peaceful Eden. While Indian troubles had abated, rustling and robbing of banks and all sorts of killing continued. Posses and lone lawmen still chased down badmen just as they had for generations. The west remained a wild and free place for many years after some paper shuffler decided it was dead and buried.

I've had all manner of Winchesters and Marlins for over 50 years and prefer the carrying qualities of the '94 Winchester over the Marlin any day. I don't find any difference in accuracy between them but I've never had a Winchester jam on me. Can't say the same about the Marlin. I will say that I've always had pre-'64 models and know nothing of the later ones. I do have a favorite Marlin though--the Model 1881. I wish I had kept the ones I had and would buy another nice one in a minute if the price was reasonable.

243dave · « **Reply #17 on:** June 09, 2009, 05:42:11 PM »

Manny you have brought up some good points about history while complaining about a 94--- but nobody here claimed that the 94 was the slickests, smoothests or most accurate gun ever. Matter of fact nobody claimed it tamed the west or that they even used it for anything than hunting. Hunting in the woods is what a lever-action is perfect for, now rather you like a marlin or winchester, thats like the ford vs chevy debate. I like them all. But would I take two marlins for my little trapper---nope----its just one of those guns I just happen to like for one reason, it hunts well. Dave

mannyrock · « **Reply #18 on:** June 09, 2009, 06:00:55 PM »

I apologize for my prior typo. It was indeed the 1851 Colt Navy.

Regards,

Mannyrock

mannyrock · « **Reply #19 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:08:43 AM »

Marlin lever actions did appear on the scene, but fairly late. The Model 1881 was the first lever gun by Marlin, and offered in the stout calibers of .45-70 and .38-55. Although not as popular as Winchesters, they were in wide use, and Marlin produced a more beefed up model (solid top steel receiver) just a couple of years later. Again, the Hollywood crowd put Winchesters in all of its movies, apparentlly ignorant of the Marlins, so people just don't know about them.

Regards,

Mannyrock

Hodr · « **Reply #20 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:48:38 AM »

In the West when there is competition between legend and fact, a good journalist ($$$$$) will put the legend in print. Hollywood is about as far west as you can get. I shoot a winchester 94 357 trapper not because of legend, but because it is a joy to shoot.

blindhari

scootrd · « **Reply #21 on:** June 10, 2009, 08:36:50 AM »

I saw mention of the 1851 Navy revolver,

Not being a historian I'm curious ..

what about the colt 1860 Army and the 1861 colt Navy ?
and Remington's 1858
I would have assumed these models would have saw widespread use (maybe even more so than the 1851 navy??)
with post war soldiers heading west?

skb2706 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 10, 2009, 11:20:47 AM »

best is actually a Model 64 (same as a 94 but with a pistol grip and shorter magazine tube) 32 Win Sp. 1956 my father handed down to me.

mannyrock · « **Reply #23 on:** June 10, 2009, 12:11:54 PM »

Scooter,

This is getting way off the original post, so I'll end with this one. There is no doubt that thousands and thousands of Remington 1858s, Colt 1860 Army, and Colt 1861 Navies went West during and after the Civil War, but the Colt 1851 Navy was the king of them all, having first been shipped west around 1852. They were the original, holster carry, beautifully balanced six gun, and somewhere in the neighborhood of 225,000 of them were made. They were so popular that Colt continued to make them until 1873!

The Colt 1851 was the original gunfighter's gun, being the favorite of guys like Wild Bill, who carried a pair of them until the day he died, well into the 1870s. They had octagonal barrels and were regarded as more accurate than the later round-barreled 1861 Navies, and were also regarded as better for wacking guys on the side of the head, a common practice of sheriffs and marshals. The Remington 1858, a very good pistol, was bulky and was, in its day, regarded as plainly inferior to the Colt 1851 . The Colt 1860 Army was much heavier to carry in a belt holster, being in .44 caliber.

The Colt 1851 was THE favorite revolver of the Conferate Cavalry, and was purchased by large numbers of militia units in the Northern States, and issued to their cavalry.

Even after the cartridge loading Colt 1873 was invented, the Colt 51 still reigned as king for several years thereafter. Cartridge ammo was expensive and not widely available in all corners of the west. To feed your 51 Navy, all you needed was the bullet mold, and some lead, powder and primers, available everywhere.

Best Regards,

Mannyrock

filmokentucky · « **Reply #24 on:** June 10, 2009, 04:43:32 PM »

There weren't that many Marlins available by the close of the frontier and not all of those available went west. In the period 1886-1888, Winchester produced more 1886 rifles than Marlin produced 1881s in the period 1881-1902---a period about ten times as long. Add to this the 1866, 1873, and 1876 Winchesters that were made concurrently and there is little wonder that the Marlins receive scant mention in pre 1890 western history. Factor in Remington Rolling Block rifles, Trapdoor Springfields, Sharps and Spencers plus others that caught the public's imagination, and the few thousand Marlins scattered throughout the U.S. and Canada weren't likely to stir up much notice. It wasn't necessarily that folks questioned the Marlin's quality but that they just weren't there in large numbers in the first place.

The 1894 Winchester has long served as a fine saddle gun and hunting rifle. Many see the slight loosenes when the action is opened as a negative and yet consider the same looseness when encountered in an AK-47 to be a positive attribute. The looseness allows the '94 to operate in some really nasty comditions and still keep going. I have never had a Winchester '94 jam up on me even in muddy and freezing conditions. I cannot say the same for my Marlins.

As I said before, my favorite Marlin is the classic 1881. And I'll take mine in .45-70. But for deer and for when conditions are vile, I will still reach for a Winchester '94. Experience over the last half century has taught me well.

zoner · « **Reply #25 on:** June 19, 2009, 02:14:41 AM »

only got one m94 winchester...my grandfather's hunting rifle....had it since i was 12 years old...1942 vintage .32 special with a Lyman tang sight...is it special?....if it turned up "missing" i would NEVER stop looking for it

jimster · « **Reply #26 on:** June 19, 2009, 07:05:34 AM »

I've had 94's since I was about 15 years old, 32's, and 30-30's, have not had any that busted or would not work, and it's what I learned on for lever actions. Marlins are nice for sure. But for some reason my 94's all seems a bit slimmer, which I liked, they all seems to have the front bead right on what I was looking at when I quicky threw it up on my cheek, so I do like that too. If I would have had a rattely one I simply would have replaced some pins and things probably. I now have just one 94 in my home, it's a 1963 in excellent shape that has not been shot a lot, but I spent some time sighting it in after I put a Lyman peep on it, and it's fast and accurate and feels like all the rest I've ever had. It's a good gun to tote into the back country being nice and slim. I don't know if me always having a 94 is because their "better" than other levers...they are not, but I think it's because I think they handle well and the 20" carbine is nice to tote around and it points well for me. I love having a 94, always had at least one, probably always will have at least one.

mannyrock · « **Reply #27 on:** June 21, 2009, 06:20:25 AM »

Jimster,

Try a straight-gripped Marlin, with a soudough front bead sight sometime. It is really really quick to the shoulder, and quick to get on target. You might even like it better than a 94.

Regards, Mannyrock

salvo · « **Reply #28 on:** June 22, 2009, 01:01:27 PM »

Well I guess I'll add my 2 cents, I prefer the Winchester 94 to the Marlin 336. I have ten Model 94's, four of them are post 64 and I have not had a problem with any of them, I do not care for the rebounding hammer and safety in the one AE that I own and it does not have either any more

I also prefer the obvious quality that the pre 64's have in the fit and finish. But then again I prefer the older Marlins too, for the same reason.
My two Marlin 336's are great samples of that line also, a 1947 336A and an 1969 336 Texan.
What makes me like the Winchester better is it's handling quality and sleek good looks. I'm also partial to the 94's action, the way it operates, looks and sounds. I even enjoy taking them apart for a detail cleaning. The Marlins are plenty good and very smooth and simple, just kinda boring for me.
Can't go wrong with either, but if I'm heading for the hills and one rifle is coming along it's usually a Winchester.

jlchucker · « **Reply #29 on:** June 23, 2009, 02:24:13 AM »

Quote from: mannyrock on June 21, 2009, 06:20:25 AM

Jimster,

Try a straight-gripped Marlin, with a soudough front bead sight sometime. It is really really quick to the shoulder, and quick to get on target. You might even like it better than a 94.

Regards, Mannyrock

too bad Marlin doesn't make them except in certain special configurations. I have a 336, in 35 Remington, that is as slender and as quick as a Winchester 94. It appears to have been made in the early 1960's, as a standard model (RC). I saw it used about 10 years ago at my favorite gunshop but waited a week to long to take it. The following spring, after deer season, it was back and I bought it. There are a few others around my neck of the woods in the same configuration, and they are highly prized by owners who are serious about hunting deer and black bear. Trouble is, Marlin prefers in general to make rifles with wood cut to clubby, fat configurations, and then they add some machine-cut checkering to make them look even worse. The gunmakers of Connecticut (Winchester and Marlin, mainly), killed off their own business by letting Madison Avenue flatlanders dictate the styling of newer models of the classic rifles that they produced for years.