Author Topic: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos  (Read 16160 times)

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Offline GGaskill

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2009, 09:07:01 PM »


Are you going to weld those eyebolts closed?  Don't want them to be able to unwind.
GG
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2009, 03:57:44 PM »
     Double D,   We have roughly calculated the muzzle energy and have found it to be 83,925 Ft. Lbs.  This is based on a SWAG in that it uses a velocity of 200 fps of the 135 Lb. projectile.   ME = M x (V squared) / 450,400 = 83,925 Ft. Lbs.  So, not being engineers we merely take the mass of the projectile and the mass of the bed and platform and sprung trailer weight to get a really rough ratio and then calc to see how much energy is imparted to the trailer. 

                              Projectile weight……135 Lbs

Tube wt. total …720 Lbs.
Weight of bed….650 Lbs.
Platform wt.  …..450 Lbs.
Sprung Tl wt.   1,250 Lbs.
       Total wt.  3,070 Lbs.                        135  =  1
                                                        3,070     23
     So we figure that the recoil effect should be very, very approximately one twenty-third the energy of the projectile’s ME or 83,925/23 = 3,649 Ft/ Lbs. energy.  We think that may be enough to make the trailer bounce noticeably and may be enough to tweak the trailer’s angle iron frame if it is supported only by corner jacks.  We intend to block it with four cribs made of all those cut off timber pieces, 4” X 6” X 18” that we have in piles all over the shop.  We figure we will place them under the trailer at the four corners of the mortar platform on leveled pieces of plywood.  Large wedges will get 80% to 90% of the weight off the trailer tires. 

     Victor3,   Can’t wait to see big mortar platform and bed constructed like a corporate jet interior.  I hope someone has a good quality video camera there.  Our company has a very basic one which we will have there of course, but no slo-mo capability.

     George,   If we decide to use those stainless steel eye bolts with 5/8” Dia. cross section,  we will have our friend with the huge Lincoln welder fill those gaps.  Good suggestion, thanks!

     We finally got the shell hoist assembled, but all our help was busy today, so we have only a few pics when my son became available.  Looks like it works, but our rope is a bit short.  DD knows where we can get a really authentic, old-time, but strong, rope.  We will give him a call.   I braved the crawling things and did all the hardware installation under the trailer.  Mike has been so helpful on this project, that I didn’t want to tick him off. 

     Newest development, although Mike has had many spectacular ideas over the years which benefitted our company greatly, the latest one yours truly dreamt about and actually remembered the critical part of that dream, to put it to use.  For the vent piece, which has to be about 9” long, why not use a .22 barrel?  So I thought,  I will machine an old .22 cal. barrel stripped off a Ruger 10-22 to bridge that big gap between the Chamber Piece and the Cosmetic Shell.  It has the correct I.D. and enough meat to run a ½”-20 die on the O.D. of one end.  Try to find tubing with those dims.!!  It ain’t easy! 

Enjoy the pics,

Mike and Tracy


The two old farts haul the heavy Shell Hoist lifting arm toward the top plate.




Heave Ho!





With .030” clearance, it was a couple minutes to find the center of the hole;  the 6” flange blocked our view!




Mike, Please HOLD THAT LADDER!!  The eye was 10.5 feet off the platform.




The FIRST projectile is hoisted.  It works!




This is just about the right position to enter the Monster Mortar’s Bore.




Mike hams it up a bit, but he is happy to see something ENTIRELY done.


Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2009, 04:57:46 PM »
I like it traditional styling, at first I thought it looked a tad tall but seeing a jug on it

puts things in perspective.


So is the computer monitor waiting to be a target? or back yard lawn decor? 
::)
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #63 on: July 04, 2009, 02:13:33 AM »


I'm waiting to see how many firecrackers this thing will shoot!   ;D




Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #64 on: July 04, 2009, 02:18:18 AM »
That will take forever to cook on that Weber.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline Double D

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #65 on: July 04, 2009, 04:02:49 AM »
I don't think they make a Pachmayer pad that big!!!! ;D

I have about  47 feet of 1/2 , long enough enough and big enough? I can do a chain splice onto the sheave on the upper block and a back splice on the other end if you can wait until you get here. Or I can send you this very expensive imported high quality rope and you can do what you want with it.  But I'll warn you I lost a couple of feet of it just running of the learning curve.  I also have some 1/4 but Rocklock gets first crack at that, all though the amount he says he needs probably will come from the trim off I do on training tackle on the Cairo gun

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #66 on: July 04, 2009, 11:34:20 AM »
thanks DD i'll pick it up in aug.
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #67 on: July 04, 2009, 05:12:45 PM »
I've got a little over 40 feet of 3-strand 3/4" ugly brown rope if anybody wants it. Anybody coming to Kalifophony? It's been sitting unused in the garage for almost 20 years.
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline Double D

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #68 on: July 04, 2009, 05:26:28 PM »
I've got a little over 40 feet of 3-strand 3/4" ugly brown rope if anybody wants it. Anybody coming to Kalifophony? It's been sitting unused in the garage for almost 20 years.

What's it made of?

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #69 on: July 04, 2009, 05:51:14 PM »
Each of the 3 big strands are made up of smaller interwoven fibers. Beats me what it's made of. It's not cotton or nylon.
It looks like the rope M&T have on their block and tackle.
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline Double D

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #70 on: July 04, 2009, 05:54:16 PM »
I know where live, I thought it might be made of local product...mine is local product of Romania, very authentic material.  ;D

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #71 on: July 04, 2009, 06:34:04 PM »
I've got a little over 40 feet of 3-strand 3/4" ugly brown rope if anybody wants it. Anybody coming to Kalifophony?

I will be coming from the southern PRK.  PM me where you are.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2009, 07:02:58 PM »
    Those computer monitors are tough to get rid of these days with all the environmental regs, so they serve a useful function now as a substitute for expensive landscape cloth and red bark, a high-tech ground cover to keep the weeds down between the rounds of artillery tube steel.  That tube will fire more crackers in one shot than I can afford and that Weber kettle does a real good job on burgers, not too much fat in concrete though.  DD, thanks for mentioning that long rope you have, but I measured the tackle on the blocks now which is filthy, but seems to fit perfectly and it's 3/4".  Mike and I studied our requirements and figured that we would need 75 feet if we wanted to lift things off the ground as it was designed to do.  5 times 12 ft. and a bit extra if you need three guys on a heavy lift.  These blocks are rated at 1,500 Lbs. working load so we need not worry about exceeding that, but we might want to lift the mortar bed up to the platform from the ground after painting and assy. and that will be approx 650 Lbs.!  
    
     Today we just relaxed as much as a grandson will let you do that; we even went to a temporary petting zoo and fire engine rides.  No work was done at all except to pick up 75 Ft. of Manila 3/4" rope and a heavy duty awl which will be converted into a marlin spike that you need to weave and consolidate rope.  Mike, the old salt will be in charge of that.  I thought he would rely on memories of basic training at Great Lakes, but no, he finds an instructional clip on You-Tube,  "How to Weave a Rope Eye".  So much for my romantic notions about 70s Navy training!!

Hope to work on the tube and inner bed core this week.  Maybe some pics this coming weekend, hard to tell.

Happy 4th of July to all,

Mike and Tracy
    
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #73 on: July 04, 2009, 07:12:00 PM »
In the late 50's at Boy Scout camp I learned eye splicing and didn't need no Marlin spike either.  Suppose I wil just have put this exotic rope up for sale.

91 feet of the correct authentic rope would have only cost you $154 plus postage of course.

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #74 on: July 04, 2009, 08:17:00 PM »
   
I know where live, I thought it might be made of local product... ;D
Were you perhaps thinking that my rope was manufactured by Johnny Reeferseed?
Probably just old hardware store stuff. I don't think you'd want to put it in a pipe and smoke it.  ;D

Ggaskill - PM sent.
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #75 on: July 04, 2009, 08:29:28 PM »
cissal fiber too maybe . the same stuff good dart boards are made of . like a great big rope ...but only about 1.5 " long . :D

btw the south bend cohorn is easily the loudest in my neighborhood  8) happy fourth everybody

"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #76 on: July 05, 2009, 06:42:46 AM »
Ex 49'er--
   I got your PM but cannot reply (error message saying the software can't find your ID.)
Way too far out of my way.  And I guess they already have all the large rope they want.

Thanks anyway.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline Double D

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #77 on: July 05, 2009, 10:03:54 AM »
Just for discussion purposes....is splicing-rope weaving period correct?  While trying to figure out the rigging on my Cairo gun, I kept coming across pictures and drawings showing whipping and not splicing...I sure would hate to see Seacoast Artillery subject of derision for that lack of attention to such important details.....(where is the leg pulling smiley?)

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #78 on: July 05, 2009, 11:11:54 AM »
Just for discussion purposes....is splicing-rope weaving period correct?  While trying to figure out the rigging on my Cairo gun, I kept coming across pictures and drawings showing whipping and not splicing...I sure would hate to see Seacoast Artillery subject of derision for that lack of attention to such important details.....(where is the leg pulling smiley?)

Land or sea?  Splicing is stronger and better looking.  Whipping is faster.  But threating the family often works too. 
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline Soot

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #79 on: July 05, 2009, 11:15:37 AM »
I think splicing and whipping has been around as long as rope. Anything you do would be period correct.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #80 on: July 05, 2009, 09:05:00 PM »
     Subdjoe and Soot have answered Double D's query very well.  Our contribution here is merely a few photos to back up their assertions.
We credit the remarkable Whaling Museum in New Bedford, Mass. for providing the terrific exhibits of whaling men and their extremely sturdy ships. 

Regards,

Mike and Tracy

P.S.  Double D,   Given our experience in manufacturing plants as inspectors for over 30 years each, I don't think a "leg pulling smiley" is necessary or expected.  Being objects of derision is one of the easiest things we have endured.  Why, just thinking about those years now I suddenly realized that Mike and I have been, derided, berated, castigated, chewed out and chewed up, reprimanded, remonstrated,
and lambasted, but I don't think we have ever been Californicated.  There is a giant sign on the western slope of the Rocky mountains which go thru Colorado between Delta and Grand Junction.  It was put up by some pissed off rancher and has written on it in very large, hard to ignor, black letters,  DON'T CALIFORNICATE COLORADO !!


Each one of these "ratlines" or rope ladders contains at least one spliced or woven "eye".  Men's lives depend on strength here, in this application.




In another critical application, the six spliced eyes shown here, large and small, are used to secure this large cargo hook before setting sail.  Again, strength is needed in this application.




"Whipping" is used in this anchoring application where you need strength and rigidity.  The main trouble with whipping is that it can fail after being abraded when something rubs against it.  Abrasion  protection is provided here by application of hot, liquid Asphaltum until the individual wrappings are turned into a single toughened tube or casing which binds the looped line tightly.




Some of the model's background information.




This pretty much indicates that either of these methods would be perfectly acceptable in the era of the armed sailing ship and during the time of the Paixhans Monster Mortar, 1832. 


Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #81 on: July 05, 2009, 11:15:23 PM »
Actually I made the comment in jest, but now I have to wonder...when was one used in preference over another and why?

I am looking over my book on the H.M.S. Victory and the majority of the rigging is lashed-whipped.  Interestingly some items are spliced on one end and lashed on the other. Ratlines for example.  The mast hounds are all large eye splices unless some other item is attached.  Then the rope, whith an eye spliced  in one end is bent around the mast. An eye lashed for a fitting or block and the rope continues around the mast to be joined with the eye by lashing. Lines bearing great loads are all lashed.  Lashing is used where things can be abraded, it would seem because it would simplier and safe to replace an abraded lashing instead of an entire line. Splice look to be a means of connecting or attaching things

The rigging the one Victory's 32 PDR's appears to have the block for haul tackle lashed, left train whippe and right train tackl block tied on with a big knot...

While trying to get sleepy so I can go back to bed, I found this. THE MASTING AND RIGGING OF ENGLISH SHIPS OF WAR,  By JAMES LEES.  With apologies to cannonmn and Boomj for stepping into theire field of research of obscure material that alsways turns out to be interesting or fascinating..

I know an answer to this burning question will be found there or not, but won't apply probably to a Napoleanic Army because it isn't in French units of measure...

As to the status of Colorado in relationship to California.  I first saw that in the late 1960's early 70's on an Oregon logger's pickup truck referring to Oregon.  It is no longer valid, as Oregon is now the northern most county in California.  Which gives you a little better understanding why this Oregon born boy lives in Montana.

Offline Soot

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #82 on: July 06, 2009, 02:28:49 AM »

I think the lines in this pic are spliced with a lashing over top. This would pull the splice in very tight, adding strengthen and abrasion resistance. I've done this myself quite a few times but without the Asphaltum. I don't consider myself an expert, but in my youth I spliced more line than I can remember. I have books on knots and splicing packed away somewhere, and yes I have a marlin spike that I can lay my hands on in the next 10 seconds if a proper splicing job needed to be done, " I may need to retrieve a whale, ya never know"
But thats just my semi-informed opinion.

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #83 on: July 06, 2009, 04:19:37 AM »
DD,  It's like the old bumper sticker that Oregonians had about Californians:
       Welcome to Oregon, Now go home!
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #84 on: July 07, 2009, 11:59:18 AM »
I always read those signs as "Welcome to ..., Spend Your Money Freely but be sure to go back where you came from."
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline Double D

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #85 on: July 07, 2009, 12:01:20 PM »
I always read those signs as "Welcome to ..., Spend Your Money Freely but be sure to go home."

Yep, that was a favorite of Tom McCall's.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #86 on: July 07, 2009, 05:20:26 PM »
One other question your use of an iron mast with block and tackle would this have been used?
Or the more traditional tripod affair used  in earlier times for moving heavy items like artillery onto their carriages?
I'm not trying to cause issues but wanted to bring this up, because your setup got me thinking........
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #87 on: July 07, 2009, 08:35:22 PM »
     Allen,   You are pretty sharp.  We were wondering if anybody would call us on that style of shell hoist or crane.  Sure it's a compromise, but the completely historical alternative is described in the history and design thread which we posted earlier, for which a link was placed at the top of page one of this thread.  To save you a bunch of shuffling around, we have included the pertinent portion here:

                 "The shells were hoisted to a level with the mouth of the cylinder by means of a chevalet supporting a swivel bar, on the one end of which were suspended two chains with hooks to catch the rings of the shell, and on the other a weight nearly equaling that of the projectile; it was easily raised by this means, and then lowered without any jar into the chamber."

     As we did not want to be swinging any telephone pole with a sliding weight and chains and hooks around on our small trailer, we had to go with a slightly more advanced, compact, shell hoist, the type used with the Dictator and similar heavy seacoast guns.  And for those with some interest in early French artillery equipment we have this from a French/English Military Dictionary:

                 Chevalet, meaning Trestle      One other meaning is "little horse" which doesn't make much sense in this context.

                              Parts of the Chevalet de Guerre or war/service Chevalet

                                     pied de chavalet......................leg
                                     semelle de chevalet..................shoe
                                     chevalet a chapeau mobile.........elevating mech
                                     chevalet a trois pieds................tripod
                                     chevalet bigue.........................two-legged

     So, there you have it, a crude, but effective way to hoist heavy shells into the Monster Mortar's mouth.

Regards,

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #88 on: July 08, 2009, 04:39:51 AM »
When I read the intial discussion on this hoist then saw the pictures, I was immediately suspicious...that hoist has another ultimate use!!!

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #89 on: July 08, 2009, 06:53:20 AM »
When I read the intial discussion on this hoist then saw the pictures, I was immediately suspicious...that hoist has another ultimate use!!!


Yea.  Fishing pole for the BIG ones!   ;D
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)