Author Topic: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos  (Read 16164 times)

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Offline Victor3

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #180 on: August 20, 2009, 11:28:17 PM »
"This photo was taken after the tenth round, before cleaning.  See for yourself."

 Looks good. You've proven that silicone sealing is a viable option for a large mortar without a welded plug. Helpful for anyone else who might want to make one :)

 I know it might be an ordeal, but are you planning on tearing it down? Might be interesting to examine the condition of the parts and fasteners after firing.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #181 on: August 22, 2009, 07:03:42 PM »
     Victor,   You keep surprising us with your keen insight.  We too were curious what would happen to the parts of the Monster Mortar assembly after a few rounds had stressed it a bit.  A careful and thorough visual and tactile inspection was made after each of the first two rounds during our testing in Colorado.  We noticed two significant items.  A slight 1/16" gap opened between the Baseplate and the bottom edge of the Cosmetic Shroud on the vent side.  Also we felt a resistance to the cartridge bag punch sliding down the vent at the point where the vent goes from the Tube into the Chamber Piece.  It is possible that a slight kink in the vent occurred as the second tub of concrete was launched out to 400 yards by a full pound of 1Fg.  Mike ran a .220" aircraft drill down the vent 2 or 3 times and the brass cartridge punch slides effortlessly to the 6 layers of aluminum foil now.  The 10 rounds we fired in Cut Bank didn't change anything except to close the 1/16" Baseplate gap. 

     So, we will tear it down to see if any of the dozen 1/2" bolts are kinked, but it won't be anytime soon as we are on a different mission now, that of completing the four Brooke Rifles we have promised for March delivery.  We think highly of the silicone solution for Mortars ONLY which have large bores compared to chamber size and generous windage of 1/40th or larger.

Thanks, Victor, good idea.

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #182 on: August 22, 2009, 08:32:00 PM »
     Victor,   You keep surprising us with your keen insight.  We too were curious what would happen to the parts of the Monster Mortar assembly after a few rounds had stressed it a bit.  A careful and thorough visual and tactile inspection was made after each of the first two rounds during our testing in Colorado.  We noticed two significant items.  A slight 1/16" gap opened between the Baseplate and the bottom edge of the Cosmetic Shroud on the vent side.  Also we felt a resistance to the cartridge bag punch sliding down the vent at the point where the vent goes from the Tube into the Chamber Piece.  It is possible that a slight kink in the vent occurred as the second tub of concrete was launched out to 400 yards by a full pound of 1Fg.  Mike ran a .220" aircraft drill down the vent 2 or 3 times and the brass cartridge punch slides effortlessly to the 6 layers of aluminum foil now.  The 10 rounds we fired in Cut Bank didn't change anything except to close the 1/16" Baseplate gap. 

     So, we will tear it down to see if any of the dozen 1/2" bolts are kinked, but it won't be anytime soon as we are on a different mission now, that of completing the four Brooke Rifles we have promised for March delivery.  We think highly of the silicone solution for Mortars ONLY which have large bores compared to chamber size and generous windage of 1/40th or larger.

Thanks, Victor, good idea.

Tracy and Mike

YOU had better get busy ...4 brooks by march ? ...... 10 months , 4 brooks ? (thats a good one ;D) lets see 10 by 4 is two months and change, per. ........NO more wasting time for you !      you can not lay around unconsious for 6-8 hrs a day any more just cause .

get busy damn it , or i wont have a place for my trinkets to be finished .

unfinished trinkets stink BIG time .

gary

"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline dan610324

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #183 on: August 23, 2009, 04:32:55 AM »
gary
I think its your obvious duty to help them  ;D
you disturb their very tight time schedule when they help you
so I hope that you will help them in return

2,5 months each , wow thats tight
you guys sure will be busy with all the details
how many details is it in one completed cannon ??
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #184 on: August 23, 2009, 04:40:19 AM »
Actually I see more than enough time for these,

they will be doing a production run,
the barrels will all be rifled at one time,
parts will be made in batches,
most likely the last month will be dedicated to the detail work and final finishing of these fine guns.

I don't think M&T have bitten off more than they can chew.



Allen <><
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline dan610324

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #185 on: August 23, 2009, 05:02:29 AM »
of course they will put up a production run , but still  I guess that its tight
with this exact details and superb finish quality it takes much longer time then planned mostly,
at least thats my experiance from different projects   :o .

just to polish all details would be a very time consuming part of the build
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #186 on: August 23, 2009, 08:03:29 AM »
300 individule parts per parrot , each one hand made .

it takes a long time .

 
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #187 on: August 24, 2009, 03:28:23 PM »
     
get busy damn it , or i wont have a place for my trinkets to be finished .

unfinished trinkets stink BIG time .

gary

     Oh Gary, you are going way, way out on a limb here!  You must be even more naive than we had imagined!   ;) ;)

Your trinkets statement reminds me a lot of     "The Optimist"   that I read years ago.  I goes something like this:

            An optimistic, first-year, college student writes his father to plead for money.

                                    No mon,
                                   
                                    No fun

                                    Your son.

           His father, a wise man and a realist writes back.

                                    Too bad,

                                    So sad,
                           
                                    Your Dad.

     Heck, I could probably take all your partially finished trinkets lying about our shop and get 100 dollars down at the scrap yard.  And what the heck is this 10 foot long steel pole with some grabber-gadget in the middle on the kitchen floor?  Are you still thinking about going native on us?  Is this thing a giant spit for a ritual Polynesian pig roast or what?


     
gary
I think its your obvious duty to help them  ;D
you disturb their very tight time schedule when they help you
so I hope that you will help them in return

2,5 months each , wow thats tight
you guys sure will be busy with all the details
how many details is it in one completed cannon ??

      Listen to Dan, Gary.  He is a very wise man!  Just do the red, Gary, do the red.  To be fair, Gary gave us almost unlimited help on finishing the Monster Mortar, so we have a lot of respect for him on that score.

      Dan there are approx. 360 details or pieces of hardware in each 100 pounder Parrott.
In the Big Bad 7" Brooke Rifle, there are fewer, about 230, but the recoil strap and trunnions and other larger details make it equally difficult to build.  There are more than 60 pcs. of hardware in the platform alone.

      Here is a photo of the bolts for the four units of the upper Brooke carriage that Mike made during the last week of Monster fabrication.  You can quadruple the no of pieces here of course, as this pic does not show the nuts or two washers each that are required for each hardware set.  If you need an angular washer too, then you need a 5 pc. set. 



     Thank you Allen!  Sounds like you know exactly how small batch production is done.  You are right, it does take a month to do all the polishing of this large pile or parts.  The secret is to learn how to use polishing stones until you get down to 320 grit, then wet and dry snadpaper takes over.  Oh, yes, we glass plate polish hundreds of parts too for absolutely dead flat surfaces. NO BUFFING WHEELS ON ANYTHING!!

     One last thing, want a challenge?  Try drilling a straight hole through three pieces of white oak, all at different attitudes, and there is a 4" gap between two of the three pieces.  The re-entry surface is at a 45 deg. angle.  How would YOU do that?  The hole must be very straight and correctly sized because the corresponding bolt can have only .005" clearance to properly draw-up all assembled parts into a square, tight assembly.  The drill must be 10 inches long and the bolts are .167" diameter.

Thanks guys, gotta get back to work now. I have to set-up the geometric die head; we are making more bolts.  There are 20 required for the pintle-plate to secure it to the pedestal part of the platform.  It must be secure, because 140 pounds of tube, upper carriage and chassis revolve around it AND recoil against it. :o :o

Regards,

Tracy and Mike












Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline dan610324

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #188 on: August 24, 2009, 03:51:29 PM »
if it was many pieces enough I would make a fixture with brass bushings to guide the drill
takes a lot of time to manufacture , but thats better then having a sloppy result
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #189 on: August 24, 2009, 04:43:29 PM »
     
get busy damn it , or i wont have a place for my trinkets to be finished .

unfinished trinkets stink BIG time .

gary

     Oh Gary, you are going way, way out on a limb here!  You must be even more naive than we had imagined!   ;) ;)

Your trinkets statement reminds me a lot of     "The Optimist"   that I read years ago.  I goes something like this:

            An optimistic, first-year, college student writes his father to plead for money.

                                    No mon,
                                   
                                    No fun

                                    Your son.

           His father, a wise man and a realist writes back.

                                    Too bad,

                                    So sad,
                           
                                    Your Dad.

     Heck, I could probably take all your partially finished trinkets lying about our shop and get 100 dollars down at the scrap yard.  And what the heck is this 10 foot long steel pole with some grabber-gadget in the middle on the kitchen floor?  Are you still thinking about going native on us?  Is this thing a giant spit for a ritual Polynesian pig roast or what?


     
gary
I think its your obvious duty to help them  ;D
you disturb their very tight time schedule when they help you
so I hope that you will help them in return

2,5 months each , wow thats tight
you guys sure will be busy with all the details
how many details is it in one completed cannon ??

      Listen to Dan, Gary.  He is a very wise man!  Just do the red, Gary, do the red.  To be fair, Gary gave us almost unlimited help on finishing the Monster Mortar, so we have a lot of respect for him on that score.

      Dan there are approx. 360 details or pieces of hardware in each 100 pounder Parrott.
In the Big Bad 7" Brooke Rifle, there are fewer, about 230, but the recoil strap and trunnions and other larger details make it equally difficult to build.  There are more than 60 pcs. of hardware in the platform alone.

      Here is a photo of the bolts for the four units of the upper Brooke carriage that Mike made during the last week of Monster fabrication.  You can quadruple the no of pieces here of course, as this pic does not show the nuts or two washers each that are required for each hardware set.  If you need an angular washer too, then you need a 5 pc. set. 



     Thank you Allen!  Sounds like you know exactly how small batch production is done.  You are right, it does take a month to do all the polishing of this large pile or parts.  The secret is to learn how to use polishing stones until you get down to 320 grit, then wet and dry snadpaper takes over.  Oh, yes, we glass plate polish hundreds of parts too for absolutely dead flat surfaces. NO BUFFING WHEELS ON ANYTHING!!

     One last thing, want a challenge?  Try drilling a straight hole through three pieces of white oak, all at different attitudes, and there is a 4" gap between two of the three pieces.  The re-entry surface is at a 45 deg. angle.  How would YOU do that?  The hole must be very straight and correctly sized because the corresponding bolt can have only .005" clearance to properly draw-up all assembled parts into a square, tight assembly.  The drill must be 10 inches long and the bolts are .167" diameter.

Thanks guys, gotta get back to work now. I have to set-up the geometric die head; we are making more bolts.  There are 20 required for the pintle-plate to secure it to the pedestal part of the platform.  It must be secure, because 140 pounds of tube, upper carriage and chassis revolve around it AND recoil against it. :o :o

Regards,

Tracy and Mike

well ....umm sorry i guess ....i under estimated it by 60 part  ......

"Thanks guys, gotta get back to work now. "I have to set-up" the geometric die head; we are making more bolts.  There are 20 required for the pintle-plate to secure it to the pedestal part of the platform.  It must be secure, because 140 pounds of tube, upper carriage and chassis revolve around it AND recoil against it. 

Regards,

Tracy and mike , no so much .


"I have to set up "    oh lets say       .........the digital cable programer tv clicker , it's the cat that does it .....and he's been dead for years ! sorry mike i'm sure he was a great cat ! .

pig roaster thats a good one ! i told you it was a tool for your proctoelgiest .

as far as trinkets ........between having 'your trinket ' .....swinging , and knowing you will eat your own words soon  ish ....well   ;D ;D ;D.......can i still use your tools ? lest my humbble trinkets go unfinished .


CEE ? gary . btw look at that brooks cariage ......white oak and perfect ........ ;D









"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Victor3

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Re: Fabrication du Mortier de Monstre de Paixhans avec des Photos
« Reply #190 on: August 25, 2009, 12:36:13 AM »
"One last thing, want a challenge?  Try drilling a straight hole through three pieces of white oak, all at different attitudes, and there is a 4" gap between two of the three pieces.  The re-entry surface is at a 45 deg. angle.  How would YOU do that?"

 I'd use some kinda thingama - JIG.

 With the accuracy required, I'm quite sure you guys are using one (unless you've got a laser drill). :)
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes