Author Topic: How much should we spend ? (Read 1859 times)

SHOOTALL · « **on:** June 11, 2009, 01:49:31 AM »

If you are involved in a self defense shooting it would seem reasonable that your weapon will be taken by the police . I have heard sometimes you get it back and sometimes you don't .
That said no one wants to depend on a clunker . So what level of quality is enough ? Is it better to have two OK guns one on you and one put away for a time when you may have to surrender your other one ? I have had friends who had guns taken by police and returned they don't look pretty on return . Would it be an un-wise investment to carry an expensive weapon ?
Could you buy a replacement if you were being investigated ? Don't think so in my state .
Would it be possible to loose your gun even if you were not the shooter ? YEP ! that's what happened to one man i know . There was no shooting but he had a gun in his own appartment when a fight broke out between other people . Took 4 court dates and about 6 mos. to get it back .
any thoughts ?

jhm · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2009, 03:51:00 AM »

I place NO greater value on any weapon than I do my family or my life, with that said I would NEVER carry a quote family airloom or collectors piece, but do on a daily exercize of my freedom carry weapons in the $600 to $1100 range as casual carry guns and as far as loosing one because of it being put into service to save my life or someone elses dont even come into the aquasion. If you do use a weapon to defend yourself their will be alot more to worry abt. than if you will get your gun back, if you get out for just the cost of the gun you got out vary CHEAP!!! Jim

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2009, 04:47:31 AM »

one lawyer said the cost could be $25000.00 for a clean shooting and another said up to $40000.00 so you have a good point .

rockbilly · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:25:47 AM »

One point not addressed her is "What State do you live in?"

There have been several shootings here in Texas where the shooter walked away with their gun following the initial investigation. In every case I am aware of the Grand Jury "no billed" the perswon and no criminal charges were filed. I am not sure where the cases stand in the civil courts, but in most cases, knowing the opinion of the average Terxa Citizen, the lawyer would like discourage a civil case.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:35:01 AM »

Va.
Another thing is the beating a carry gun takes .

WD45 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2009, 03:11:02 AM »

Well,
I guess it all depends on what you are looking for in a carry gun. You can get a smith J frame for a pretty reasonable price around here ,which will take a lickin and keep on tickin so to speak. I saw a real nice model 36 at the gun shop last week for 380 sawbucks.. Not a big price and definatley not a clunker.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2009, 03:15:04 AM »

That's my choice in an airweight .

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2009, 08:15:32 AM »

I'm not going to base my selection on cost of replacement. I have found a weapon that meets my criteria for every day carry. The criteria being , dependability, size, capacity, accuracy in my hands, and support of holster manufactures. I spent what I could afford, it meant going with a used gun.

I would equate the question to purchasing a car based on what if it gets taken away after a wreck. The cartridges are my car, the gun is the insurance policy. I drive all the time, never have had a wreck ( I don't want to include deer strikes). I shoot all the time and don't honestly expect to draw my gun in selfdefence but like auto insurance I have excellent coverage in case I do need it. An instance where click when you were expecting bang is worse than bang when you expected click.

A beautifuly engraved handgun like a Pininfarina Ferrari is a thing to behold but really not practical as a daily driver. A twenty year old Plymouth Horizon would be no great loss but it isn't what I would choose to be in a wreck in. Likewise would you pick up that .32 Keltec if you knew good and well that you would be drawing it that afternoon. So I choose a Glock or a SIG or S&W etc. to carry, and drive a dependable Ford or Chevy etc. Those who can afford to, carry custom 1911's or drive BMW 7 series. The Keltics and Horizons? lots better than rocks and shanks mare.

I have two by the way. Guns and cars cause I will need both if one of either is not available to me.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2009, 08:23:59 AM »

Most cars are insured if stolen . you can also get a new car 9 often provided by the insurance co. if you are involve in an accident .

If one is good having 2 is better .

williamlayton · « **Reply #9 on:** June 12, 2009, 01:41:29 PM »

I buy a weapon for defense. It is expendable--not so, my life.
If it is taken and i can't get it back, after is saves my life or anothers, Then $1,500 dollars may seem a pretty cheap tradeoff.
Now I don't say that I have spent $1,500 on all of my weapons---but on some of them and a few that were only $1000 after some work.
They are all expendable.
Blessings

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #10 on:** June 13, 2009, 02:45:12 AM »

At some point a weapon is suitable and anything more is fluff and at times takes away from the usefulness ! where is that point ?
The trend in auto loaders is to make them work like a DA revolver , get away from external safeties and go DA only . Is it worth the extra cost over a good 7-8 shot revolver ?

WD45 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2009, 04:11:26 AM »

Advantage

I would say probably reload time. Most people are probably not packing high capacity autos.
I may be wrong but the majority of people that I talk to that carry and even reading posts on this site and others it appears most of them opt for small ,light easily concealed guns such as the P3AT more often than other guns. People that post on this site do seem to care much more about what they carry and why than most people that are now getting a permit to carry... It also appears that most people that carry very seldom shoot their carry gun. Heck, I talked to one guy that packs a ruger LCP and when I asked him how it shoots He said he hasn't shot it yet.!!! That all being said advantages may have as much to do with the packer as it does with the pistol

That guy's only real advantage is hoping that at the site of the gun the situation at hand is difussed and hope he does not actually need to pull the trigger. I think we could discuss the advantages of either one on a knowlegable basis but I don't consider the people post here as the average person either. The advantage to the average person ??
Does that make any sense to you all ? or did I just open up a bigger can of worms

helotaxi · « **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2009, 04:17:55 AM »

If the goal is concealment then width is important. My Kahrs are much narrower and more concealable than any revolver and one is in .45 Auto to boot. At $645, I've not seen a 6 shot revolver suitable for concealed carry for much if any less. Consider the $400 I paid for my CW9 and the field shrinks to pretty much zero. Factor in that the CW9 is less than an inch thick and basically just vanishes on the waist in a decent holster and it seems like an obvious choice to me. Long but smooth and light trigger pull, minimum moving parts, reliable and comfortable to shoot. The frame isn't so short that I'm hanging on with only 2 fingers like the compact revolvers. The other boon for me is that I've not had any real problems finding left handed concealment holsters for the CW9 which is something I can't say for much anything else.

williamlayton · « **Reply #13 on:** June 13, 2009, 01:27:01 PM »

I disagree, Shootall.
I think the majority would say that they pack Semi-auto's and some, such as me, can often be found with high capacity ones.
I don't know of many 8 shot revolvers and I doubt that they are as comfortable to pack as my Stainless, Sig P220 in a .45 caliber.
Why don't you do a poll of those who carry Rollers versus Semi-auto's.
I could be wrong.
Blessings

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2009, 06:46:12 PM »

WD45 I fear there are more out there than we imagine who never pull a trigger. Think about where most of the population lives. It's got to be a real PITA to get to a range very often. Certainly harder to find a range than a gun store around me.

They have no concept of a gun needing a breakin or maintenance for that matter. What they know about guns came from Matlock or Fast and Furious. A gun to many is sure death and destruction, no matter what it is. We all know that if the good guy shoots a bad guy they immediately fall, or at the minimum have that "Come to Jesus" moment, and give up.

Add to all this the fact that ammo is like unicorn crap lately, and you get lotsa new guns with packing preservative stuck to the pocket or holster of the neophyte gun owner. For this fella a $125 Raven will work nearly as well anything else. There are those who rob convenience stores with pellet pistols, and feel well armed, too.

Brett · « **Reply #15 on:** June 14, 2009, 03:28:59 AM »

We have strayed slightly off track from the OP. I believe his question was do you take the price of the weapon into consideration when choosing a CCW due to the possibility of it being confiscator by the authorities if you have to use it?

My answer to that is no not really. As others have said my and my families lives are worth more than any gun in the world. That said, I also feel it is unnecessary to spend a thousand dollars to get a perfectly reliable, quality sidearm. Going back to an automobile analogy, a low mileage second hand Honda Civic can get you to the grocery store just as reliably as a Hummer H2 for a much smaller investment.

As far as revolver vs semi auto. The advantages I see to the semi auto is concealability and capacity. My Kel-Tec P11 which holds 11 rounds of 9mm Luger is narrower, easier and more comfortable to conceal than my S&W M60 which holds only five rounds of .38 spl. So even with a speed loader I have one less round available carrying the snubby.

The advantage I see with a revolver is the absolute simplicity and ease of operation. As an example; My wife has weak, arthritic hands and finds the slide of the P-11 a challenge to wrack. For the same reason it is difficult for her to even load the bullets into the P-11's magazine.

So to summarize, each type of weapon fill a particular set of needs.

WD45 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 14, 2009, 04:21:01 AM »

William, I would say you are probably right that most people carry a semi auto but how many out of that majority carry the smaller pocket pistol usually in a smaller caliber than a full size auto as their main carry gun. A poll of who packs an auto vs who packs a wheel gun will probably only tell us what we already know. I would bet that most people on here not only have more than one carry gun but multiple different carry guns in different calibers, capacity and type. While I have a preference for wheel guns it's hard to argue over the advantage of a full size large caliber auto with a couple high capacity clips. I think the result you get here from a poll would be no doubt much different than from the main stream. I wonder how many there are out there that go buy a full size gun and after trying to carry it around every where either dont carry very often or go get a little pocket gun because it's so easy to stick in your pocket and go anywhere and convince themselves that it's good enough just because it's a gun and thats all they really need. I wonder how many people carry just because it makes them feel secure versus how many carry because they do not feel secure and may need to defend or protect themselves at any time ? The answer to that question will probably tell you why someone carries what they do and not necessisarily because there is any advantage of one over the other. Am I getting off topic ?

WD45 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 14, 2009, 04:42:59 AM »

Re-reading the original post maybe it should be more of a discussion of reliability issues with some of the cheaper guns of different brands. In that light I would say spend enough to get the reliability that your life depends on.

bluecow · « **Reply #18 on:** June 14, 2009, 05:43:39 AM »

it dont mater how much or how little. if you use it the last thing that your going to be thinking about is do i get it back or how mush to replace it. your more than likly never going to usi it so carry something that ya like.
1st: i want a gun thats as close to 100% reliable as man can make. i dont care if it shoot 22 shorts as long as it goes bang when i want the darn thing to. i would rather have something with more " umph", and i dont care to have it go bang just through normal handling, but it must go bang each and every time i pull the trigger.
2nd: speed of reload dont matter that much. its nice to talk about, get all excited about, but how much dose it matter. im not going to the shoot out at the OK corral. im going to aviod that at all cost. back in court you dont want to be seen as going looking for it. if i am going to go looking for it ill have a bit more than a handgun. stay away from hand loads. they will not help you in court, and you can get factory ammo that will do just as well.
3rd: while most if not all of us are regular shooter, we should qustion the wisdom of the 357, 40, 45, 9mm, ect. in small to vary small/light handguns. even if it hurts our he man pistolaro feeling these gun are harder and more uncomfrotable to shoot. how well will we do with this type of gun ( let alone the casual shooter ) when we get a hole pile of adrenaline in our system?
4th: as i stated before, youll more that likly never use it, but ive got fire insurance also.

glockman55 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 14, 2009, 06:23:34 AM »

I would never sacrifice a quality hand gun for the thought of, I might not get it back. And I would NEVER carry a .22 because it's easier to Conceal. I own Glock and Sig. Two very dependable weapons.

williamlayton · « **Reply #20 on:** June 14, 2009, 03:44:29 PM »

WD
Some good points on the last post you wrote.
Lets see here. I can't remember the last time I carried a roller, but I have.
I tend too vary my carrying habits.
I will normally carry the PPK when I am in and out, but sometimes it is the Sig 239, even when just going into McDonalds for coffee, here in Deer Park.
If it is Fall or Winter the chances of it being one of either of several is much greater. That is not always the case, when I wear a large untucked Hawiaan shirt.
I have a new carry piece, a Lightweight Colt Commander in .38 Super, the old Standby Sig P220, or a Colt Government .45--the Sig P239 in .357sig is near or on me.
Now, I admit to not carrying all day every day. 2/3 or maybe 4 hours is probably tops---these times not being everyday.
There are always two choices in the Expedition, and they may vary---seems like the PPK is always there though.
They are all expendable, which is the main point.
Blessings

PS--If you are wondering how I manage the scabbard thing for all of these weapons. I don't, well the point is I don't use scabbards--though I have some.

WD45 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 15, 2009, 03:16:27 AM »

William,
I am claiming you as a long lost relative now wihich requires you to will me at least 3 of those guns you listed.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #22 on:** June 15, 2009, 08:01:07 AM »

The OP was how much should we spend , no other guide line given . Seems each poster has their own set of rules . I will offer some thoughts as i see it . Most attacks are settled in a matter of seconds with only a few total shots fired . This is why i said a revolver will work most of the time . Now if you live where this does not hold true then it will not work for you . For me there are times that i carry an auto , but most of the time a light weight j frame is good. Pocket carry works well with the j-frame as the cyl. opens the pocket to allow easy grip . Autos small enough to fit in a pocket are hard to get a grip for me. Full size autos are ok in winter but summer not so for me in most cases .
I always feel if one gun is good then 2 are even better . That said i would use aval. funds to have to servicesable guns if possible .
Then you have the same model gun with different trim/ finish levels . Examples - mod 28 or 27 S&W , Browning HP and others exist . The service level is often lower cost and in some cases like finish it is better suited to self defense IE; NON GLARE VS. BRITE BLUE. Then we can look at savings on new vs. used . And as posted before if you use it you can loose it . Also if you leave it in your truck to go in a PO you can have it stolen.
My point was to assy. ways to save $$$$ but not suffer problems of serviceablity .
To conclude a 230 gr hydra-shok from a $500.00 Glock not as effective as the same bullet fired from a $3000.00 LB custom ? Or a 357 125 gr hp from a $300.00 mod 19 police trade in not as good as either ? the stats say the mod. 19 has the most chance of giving you a one shot stop .
So what tool will do the job most cost effective for you .

williamlayton · « **Reply #23 on:** June 15, 2009, 08:47:07 AM »

Cost effective is the criteria?
Explain cost effective in the face of need of reliability which is the criteria.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. I look at having to give up a Good pistol rather than have one which did not work taken from my dead hands.
Blessings

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** June 15, 2009, 09:01:41 AM »

Look at it from a different point of view - how much do you really need to spend to be well protected ?
example - home $400.00 rem 870 pump. street $375.00 S&W mod. 38 airweight . throw in a deacent rifle say a Savage in 308 for under $500.00 and you have it covered . For sure not everyone will like the set up but it would work in alot of cases . It could also be a start for a family that can add extra later as funds allow .
Those who have the income to go with high end guns can but some can not and i was looking at how little you can spend and still acheve a level of protection you can have faith in .

S.S. · « **Reply #25 on:** June 18, 2009, 01:48:08 PM »

The absolute most reliable semi-auto handgun I have cost me about 130 bucks.
It has served me well for way over a decade! It is a Helwan Brigadier 9mm made in Egypt.
An exact copy of the Beretta 1951. Never once has it jammed or failed to feed. Highly
accurate to boot. Doesn't have to be high dollar to be an excellent weapon. I have just
found another one that I hope I can get before long.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #26 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:13:09 PM »

A good quality carry gun, something like a Glock, Ruger, CZ, Smith, usually runs about $300 to $600, depending on model. What's your life worth? You don't need a $1500 race gun, custom engraved, polished any thing. Nor should you buy as cheap as possible. Yea, plenty of guys will tell you how their $100 pot metal .32's are the greatest thing ever. Plenty more will tell you something else. You get what you pay for....

If you use your carry gun in a self defence shooting, you can count on it be taken by the police as evidence, until the shooter (you) is cleared of any wrong doing. From there, how fast you get it back, and in what shape is really dependant on the police dept. / court system you are dealing with. By the way, it should go without saying, that if you are ever involved in a shooting, you shaould make it clear that you do not wish to make a statement until you have a Lawyer present. Innocent people say strange things when under stress, and after a 30 year carreer in law enforcement, I can tell you some Officers / D.A's are concerned about convictions, not sometimes so much about having the right person, or doing the right thing.

Larry

teamnelson · « **Reply #27 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:29:44 PM »

Its threads like these that make me nostalgic for the good old days of open carry when I was growing up in Arizona. Was not unusual to see a mom & kids piling out of the station wagon with a full holster on her hip. Maybe not so much in Phoenix or Tucson, but further out no one raised an eyebrow. I've walked into a lot of stores carrying open - not anymore.

The beauty of open carry, besides often deterring the need for concealed carry, is that it encouraged fancy holsters and pretty (costly) guns. Ever hear of a BBQ gun or a church gun? Open carry also meant that instead of one guy with a double stack, half a dozen guys with 6 shot wheelies or single stacks were able to respond.

But today ... for home invasion a good 12ga. for under $200. For CCW, a middling snubbie, like a Charter Arms or Taurus, will only set you back $300-400.

RIjake · « **Reply #28 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:32:23 PM »

Quote from: williamlayton on June 12, 2009, 01:41:29 PM

I buy a weapon for defense. It is expendable--not so, my life.
If it is taken and i can't get it back, after is saves my life or anothers, Then $1,500 dollars may seem a pretty cheap tradeoff.
Now I don't say that I have spent $1,500 on all of my weapons---but on some of them and a few that were only $1000 after some work.
They are all expendable.
Blessings

I agree with everything written here. I carry a $1000 Kimber. I'm not a rich man by ANY stretch. That being said, I do on occasion carry my $250 KelTec P11. How can you compare the two you say? Well, the only thing they have in common is they both WORK. If I gotta use it, and I don't get either one back.........oh well, my kids still got a father and my wife's still got a husband!

glockman55 · « **Reply #29 on:** June 19, 2009, 12:22:27 PM »

Quote from: S.S. on June 18, 2009, 01:48:08 PM

The absolute most reliable semi-auto handgun I have cost me about 130 bucks.
It has served me well for way over a decade! It is a Helwan Brigadier 9mm made in Egypt.
An exact copy of the Beretta 1951. Never once has it jammed or failed to feed. Highly
accurate to boot. Doesn't have to be high dollar to be an excellent weapon. I have just
found another one that I hope I can get before long.

I do not mean to criticize or doubt, but how much do you shoot? daily, weekly, once a month? I shoot two to thee times a week for the most part. I have a Range in my back yard. I have seen cheaper hand guns fail after a few thousands rounds, my Glock has at least 5 to 7,000 rds. though it with out a problem and you can't see any wear on it as well.