Author Topic: 257 roberts vs. 260 remington (Read 8936 times)

mitchell · « **on:** June 12, 2009, 02:47:38 PM »

hey guys im about to biuld a new mauser . main reason for building this gun is for deer hunting and just to have something new.

i heard great things about both of these rounds , and can't really pick one.

heres what i have to work with:

i have a short action mauser , boyd synthetic stock and i'm going to buy a dougless barrel.

i'll be using the gun mostly for stand hunting with max shots about 325 yards .

ill probibly put a leupold 3-9X40 i have on it

and i reload . i have plunty of guns for varmints and bigger game so for just shooting whitetail deer what do you like more??

the 260 rem or the 257 roberts???

billy_56081 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2009, 02:57:19 PM »

260 my buddy has one in an AR10 and it's the bomb.

BTW Mitch you might want to check into a DPMS my buddy got his from them when he returned from the sand box and it is custom made with his unit crest on it. Oh yeah and they give you one heck of a discount. Below prefered dealer cost.

nomosendero · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2009, 04:31:41 PM »

Both will do the job/application you stated very well, but I would go with the 260 for sure. The main decider for me is the fact that you aren't going to use this particular rifle for Varmits, the Roberts would be more pleasant for VOLUME Varmit shooting which you won't be doing, but for Deer the Roberts would not offer any advantage at all. A Mauser likely will not be a flyweight & with a nice recoil pad for this low volume shooting, the recoil is a non issue period. The 325 range is fine for both, but if windy the 130-140 gr. bullet would be a plus & if you ever Deer hunt in an area like I do here in AR, you may have a Bear or a large Hog venture by & again both will do it, but the 260 would be better. Yes, I am a fan of the fast 25's mainly the stout loaded 25-06 & above & yes the Roberts will work for alot of that, but for you narrow focus for this gun, I would go 260 hands down!

jro45 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 13, 2009, 01:38:03 AM »

I own the 257 WBY Mag and never shot the 260. So I'd say go with the 257 roberts

Lone Star · « **Reply #4 on:** June 13, 2009, 02:19:00 AM »

I own a .257 Weatherby and a .260 Remington. The latter will do 95% of what the former will, and most shooters can live without that last 5%. Get the .260. It makes a great LR varmint round with the 90-grain TNT or the 95-grain V-MAX, and the 140s will do things no .257 Roberts will ever do.

.

Swampman · « **Reply #5 on:** June 13, 2009, 02:45:36 AM »

I don't like the .260 at all, but the Bob probably isn't a good choice for the short acton.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #6 on:** June 13, 2009, 03:31:21 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 13, 2009, 02:45:36 AM

I don't like the .260 at all, but the Bob probably isn't a good choice for the short acton.

Jus to set the record straight:

SAAMI max COL are as follows:

2.780" = .257 Roberts
2.800" = .260 Rem

Thus, if you plan to stay with either factory ammo with the Roberts, which I doubt, or SAAMI COL, a short action is fine.

the great orator · « **Reply #7 on:** June 13, 2009, 03:32:55 AM »

I would think the .260 would be more economical, as the parent case is the .308, if I'm not mistaken. I think you'd be more likely to pick up/swap for .308 or 7mm-08 brass that you could reform into .260 if you reload. I'm thinking of this caliber as my next fun gun.

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** June 13, 2009, 04:14:37 AM »

The Bob needs a long action to shine.

JD338 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2009, 08:03:38 AM »

Since you have a short action, I would lead towards the 260 Rem. A 120 gr BT will shoot flat and far, killing deer as if lighting struck. The 125 gr PT will give you lots of penetration.

If you had a long action, the 257 Roberts is a killing maching, nipping on the heels of the 25-06. I have a Bob in a M700 Classic.

JD338

Sweetwater · « **Reply #10 on:** June 13, 2009, 08:56:52 AM »

We, Dad & I, have a pair of Remington 722's (short action) in 257Roberts. Both have been with us since the very early '50's. Both have had the barrels trimmed @ 21.5". I can't answer why, it wasn't my decision. Both will deliver 120gr Nosler Partitions at 2950fps in neat little groups. 100gr Sierra's will beat the group size and will break 3100fps. Brass is 7x57 so not exactly hard to come by. We "know" it's inhibited by the short action because we've read about it for 50 years. However, it doesn't show up in the field or in the freezer. Besides being a great carttridge for it's intended purpose, it's got decades of history.

A "relative new-comer", the 260 Remington is a great little 6.5 - I happen to prefer the 6.5x55, but that is not an option to the OP. [As an aside, the 6.5x55 lives in a long action so is unihibited, but have yet to find (since 1959) that it's superior to the 257Roberts, though it should be due to its longer action and heavier bullets.] The 260 seats heavier bullets deeper into the case, thus decreasing case capacity; same issue as the Roberts. The 260 has higher SAAMI specs for operating pressures and thus a "by the book" reloader can achieve higher velocities within the same bullet weights. That is the 260 advantage.

However, having to learn to "handload" using antiquated cartridges in modern steel receivers, a lot is learned that isn't written about anymore as most have turned to modern cartridges in modern steel receivers. We just have to read and reload, like using a cookbook.

"Handloaders are "reloaders", but "reloaders" are not necessarily "handloaders".

Sounds like the 260 Remington is what "you" want.

Regards,
Sweeetwater

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2009, 09:20:08 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 13, 2009, 04:14:37 AM

The Bob needs a long action to shine.

Just another DUMB old wives tale that keeps being repeated by folks who have no real world experience but want to sound like experts.

Definition: Expert. Ex- means USED TO BE. SPURT means a drip under pressure. So an expert is a former drip under pressure.

Stick to stuff you actually know a little about and you'll not look so stupid saying dumb things.

Swampman · « **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2009, 10:31:37 AM »

Just stating (not inventing) the facts.

I know about rifles. That's why I stick with them.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 13, 2009, 10:39:29 AM »

A 260 will also perform a bit better on larger game. I would feel better armed with a 260 while elk hunting over a 257 bob. Not that the 257 cal won't kill elk dead as a rock, but the 140 grainers out of a 6.5 have a great reputation for killing.

When I built my son his rifle I made it 6.5X55 as with it he cannot be overgunned for coyote or undergunned for elk.

Swampman · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2009, 10:43:41 AM »

That's why the .30-06 or .308 should be the min. legal cartridge for elk.

nomosendero · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2009, 10:49:25 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 13, 2009, 10:43:41 AM

That's why the .30-06 or .308 should be the min. legal cartridge for elk.

Oh that's why.

I know 30 cal. & above according to you & that means a 7STW with a 160TSX or a 175NP would never do!

Why do you post this garbage? Tell you what, I'll just delete the rest of your posts on this thread.

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** June 13, 2009, 11:37:31 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 13, 2009, 10:31:37 AM

Just stating (not inventing) the facts.

I know about rifles. That's why I stick with them.

No you are merely showing your ignorance.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 13, 2009, 11:40:11 AM »

GB you might want to have a little chat with swampy about commenting on posts from people he has on ignore. I think Matt had said that is a banning offence.

RaySendero · « **Reply #18 on:** June 13, 2009, 01:17:26 PM »

Quote from: mitchell on June 12, 2009, 02:47:38 PM

hey guys im about to biuld a new mauser. .....
and i reload.

the 260 rem or the 257 roberts???

I like'm both - Don't think you can go wrong with either.

Guess i'd pick the 257 Roberts. If for no other reason than to put a Mauser derived cartridge in a Mauser rifle.

Think you should also consider these: 7x57 and, since you reload, a 6.5 x57

mitchell · « **Reply #19 on:** June 13, 2009, 02:34:00 PM »

well let me throw a wrench in here what do yall think about the 257 roberts ai?? i dont have dies for any of these yet so doesn't really make any differance to me . its only about 100 fps behind the 26 rem with a 120gr bullet.

Tallwalker · « **Reply #20 on:** June 13, 2009, 02:45:15 PM »

I think both rounds are pretty good. Mauser "short" actions aren't really as short as you might think, and are often pretty close to 3" actions. The problem I've had building guns on Mauser actions is more from feeding issues than anything else. The .308 family of cartridges sometimes take quite a bit of tinkering before they will feed correctly. If I were making the choice that you are, actually I might choose the 6.5 x55 over the .260 Remington, or look for a different action to start with.

jdt48653 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 13, 2009, 03:37:20 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 13, 2009, 10:43:41 AM

That's why the .30-06 or .308 should be the min. legal cartridge for elk.

i think the last elk i shot,died so quick he didn`t have time to argue with my
choice of cartridge.264win mag 140sp.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2009, 06:36:07 PM »

I have 2 257 Roberts, one a Ruger MKII long action, the other a Savage that I rebarreled from 243 to 257, a short action. I use a max load of IMR 4350 under Nosler 110gr AB. I can't get any more powder in the case with out going over max so how does that make the short action a bad choice? GB is spot on, some people just spout crap they have heard with out finding out the facts.

That relates to alot of people, not just the man here. And once again we are saying .007" makes alot of difference in killing power when it comes to bullet size?

Then we are right back in the 270 VS 280 fight again $:-\$

. Only difference is bullet weight, which for the OP's requirements are not needed to be factored in. The 257 will take any deer out to the range he stated as will the 260. 257 holds more powder and at the same pressure will be a little faster even with the smaller diameter bullet than the 260. Brass is available for both from the parent cases if need be. Roll the dice and you will still be a winner.

DP

Sweetwater · « **Reply #23 on:** June 13, 2009, 06:51:37 PM »

EXACTLY the ref to the OP - no tangible difference. Certainly one no Deer will ever notice.

One small aspecty often overlooked is not what the rifle/cartridge can do, but what can you (the shooter) do with it? Some shoot the Roberts "better" than the 260 Remington, or any other cartridge, for that matter. For most, it's a coin toss. Either way - you win.

A pal of mine in Green River built a 257Roberts AI on a short action Mexican Mauser. It was a trim little rifle, and a super shooter, but not enough faster to make me rechamber my Remington 722 257Roberts to the 257Roberts AI version. Just another choice and for sure within the scope of your project.

Roll your dice; let us know 'who won'!!!

Regards,
Sweetwater

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #24 on:** June 13, 2009, 06:56:44 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 13, 2009, 04:14:37 AM

The Bob needs a long action to shine.

Quote from: Swampman on June 13, 2009, 10:43:41 AM

That's why the .30-06 or .308 should be the min. legal cartridge for elk.

Graybear pretty much sums up may opinion of the above in his response to Swampgas:

Quote from: Graybeard on June 13, 2009, 09:20:08 AM

...
Stick to stuff you actually know a little about and you'll not look so stupid saying dumb things.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #25 on:** June 13, 2009, 07:14:30 PM »

Let me state that I have no personal experience with a .260 Remington. I do, however, own a .257 Roberts on a Ruger M77 standard (.30-06) length action with a 22” barrel. That rifle is easily my favorite.

The original Roberts inheritied a low SAAMI pressure level from the parent 7x57 cartridge. Later SAAMI standardized a +P level at 58,000 PSI, well below cartridges like the .25-06 at 63,000 PSI or the .270 Winchester and others at 65,000 PSI. As a result achieving velocities similar to some of these other cartridges is difficult or impossible without exceeding SAAMI standards.

That said, I run +P data as a guide for developing my .257 Roberts loads which give up very little of a useful nature to the .25-06. If I was building or buying a short action it would probably be a .260 Remington simply because I like the ballistics available with the 130g Scirocco II and AccuBond and the 140g Berger Match BT.

In any case, whichever I chose, I wouldn’t lose any sleep wondering if I had made a bad choice.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #26 on:** June 14, 2009, 03:50:10 AM »

Quote from: mitchell on June 12, 2009, 02:47:38 PM

hey guys im about to biuld a new mauser . main season for building this gun is for deer hunting and just to have something new.

i heard great things about both of these rounds , and can't really pick one.

heres what i have to work with:

i have a short action mauser , boyd synthetic stock and i'm going to buy a dougless barrel.

i'll be using the gun mostly for stand hunting with max shots about 325 yards .

ill probibly put a leupold 3-9X40 i have on it

and i reload . i have plunty of guns for varmints and bigger game so for just shooting whitetail deer what do you like more??

the 260 rem or the 257 roberts???

mitchell –

There are great arguments for both cartridges.

Let me start by saying I have a standard-length, slide safety Ruger M77 in .257 Roberts and that it is easily my favorite rifle. Full disclosure requires that I mention it is also a big game virgin in my hands, something I hope to “fix” this year. My big game loads vary and I don’t know which I will use this year. My choices are a 100g TTSX running over 3200fps, a 110g AccuBond running 3150fps and a 120g A-Frame running 2947fps. All are very accurate loads. The Roberts gets a lot of use on varmints using a 75g V-Max running over 3500fps and has taken two coyotes at ranges between 480 and 490 yards. One of my favorite things to do at the range is set clay pigeons up on the 400 yard berm. The Roberts makes short work of them.

The .280 Rem has the advantage of a 60,000 PSI pressure rating (versus 58,000 for the Robets) plus great bullets with very high ballistic coefficients such as the 130g Swift Scirocco II at .571 and the 140g Berger Match BT at .618. It is very popular for long range target work and competition.

Recently I started work on a custom rifle. The design goal was to produce a very long range target/varmint rifle that would see use out to 1500 yards on occasion, would have low recoil, and would be suitable for occasional big game hunts, providing 2000fps/1000fpe out to at least 800 yards. The target range would extend out to 1500 yards and the bullet would have to remain supersonic at that range. After extensive evaluation of various cartridge/bullet combinations I selected a .264 caliber as best meeting these criteria. Starting out with a standard (.30-06) length Interarms Mark X Mauser action, my next step was to order a Boyd pepper laminate JRS stock.

The selection of the particular .264 caliber cartridge was more difficult. I eliminated the .264 Win Mag and wildcats like the 6.5mm-284 and 6.5mm-300WSM because I didn’t want to mess with the feed rails or other geometries of the action. That left the 6.5mm-06 or the 6.5mm-06AI. The 6.5mm-06 was appealing as new .25-06 brass can be loaded with boattail bullets and fired. In the end, because I didn’t want to run the risk of someone sticking a 6.5mm cartridge reading .25-06 on the case head into a .25-06 rifle, I opted for the 6.5mm-06AI. As a bonus, this allowed an increase in velocity while still keeping recoil fairly low. A couple weeks ago I ordered a Kreiger stainless barrel, heavy sporter (#6) contour with 6 flutes. The action face is getting trued, the action re-blued and the lugs will be lapped. It will be some months before I see my rifle but when Krieger returns the complete rifle it will be ready to have a scope mounted and go to the range. When it comes back the finishing touch will be to add a Tubb Speed Lock, which is a replacement I can do myself.

The point of all this is to suggest that if, like you, I had started with a short action the choice would have been simple – the .260 Rem would have been a foregone conclusion.

nomosendero · « **Reply #27 on:** June 14, 2009, 04:41:47 AM »

Swampie, tired of it man!!!!! It is not fair to mess up MANY threads that others start seaking info or LOGICAL advice. I already told you what would happen to any of your additional posts.It makes sense for you to forget about this thread & I hope you will be reasonable on future threads.

To others, I would appreciate no more references to what he has said here, you all know it is bogus, drop it.
Otherwise, I will have to lock it down, thanks.

crash87 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 14, 2009, 04:51:00 AM »

While I hunt deer with, reload for, and hunt with a 257 Roberts (Winchester featherweight) and my son a 260 Rem. (Model 7) which I also load for, I guess I will give an opinion or a statement or two. There are pros and cons on both albiet, quite paltry at best. Go down and read the post on the 6.5-06 or 280. Then go and find some back issues from any magazine and look for the what's better 270 or 30-06, then after that gets old, find the ones that add the 280 into the mix , then go and throw up, disgusted that they would even print that drivvle ,worst yet someone would even spend money and buy it.
Yes you can use brass from 308 for a 260, yet you can also use 7mm Mauser brass for the 257....and you would do that? WHY? SHORT ACTION 257!!!!!!!!!! You Swampman have read to much of the drivvle and I hope you paid ($$$$) dearly for it. Many thing are written for know other reason to sell copy, it is then repeated over and over and over again, by people like you, until everyone is an expert and it is now the fact as opposed to fallacy. The one downfall the 257 "HAD" was Remington "NOT" loading it to its potential, "THAT" is not an issue anymore. BUT, our questioner is a handloader so that is now or better yet, never will be an issue.
Both, will do what you want, not one better than the next. UNLESS, you believe in paper ballistics as unfortunatley most use for an excuse why one is BETTER than the other, while in the game fields, actual real life hunting, a deer hit properly, will not know the difference and neither will you. So, try this, take the bullet of choice in both 6.5mm and .257. Carry them around in your pocket all day, at the end of the day, reach in, pull "ONE" out, and that my friend is the one you cannot go wrong with. RayS.. made a good point, since you do reload, the 6.5X57, now you have the best of both worlds, OH OH!...., now that brings up a new discussion, Should or Should we not, give it one of Parkers 40 degree shoulders? Decisions decisions!!!!!!!!!!!CRASH87

crash87 · « **Reply #29 on:** June 14, 2009, 05:00:38 AM »

Nomosendero, I must appologize for my staements,after you made your wishes known. I did not get down that far to read it before I made my reply and posted it. I am sorry for that. Do what you must. CRASH87