Author Topic: 257 roberts vs. 260 remington (Read 8938 times)

mannyrock · « **Reply #30 on:** June 14, 2009, 05:47:12 AM »

Echoing what was said in a prior reply, I would point out that getting a .308 round (or a derivative like the .260 Rem) to feed reliably from a standard mauser magazine is NOT an easy thing. It usually takes lots and lots of tweaking, and even then, you may never get it to feed reliably. Having been through this before, my humble advice is as follows:

1. Save yourself alot of headache regarding action length and reliable feeding by just going to the 6.5 Swede. It is available in very good factory loads, and is easily hand loaded, so that it virtually duplicates the .260 Remington. (Please, no comments about 100fps or so. It is immaterial.)

2. If you don't go with the 6.5 Swede, then talk to several custom mauser gunsmiths, and just ask them which is the easier conversion to get a smooth feeding round in your mauser, the .260 or the Roberts. Then, GO with their advice!

Building your own mauser will be a totally unhappy experience if you end up with an unreliable or problem rifle. Not to mention the wasted money!!

Regards,

Mannyrock

nomosendero · « **Reply #31 on:** June 14, 2009, 04:29:01 PM »

Mannyrock & Tallwalker make a good point about cartridge feeding, always worth considering. I have owned
98 actions in the past, but were used with 7X57, which it was designed for. I did have a Siameze Mau. in 45/70 with a Shilen barrel, that was an experience. All of the other customs other than an '03 have been Rem. actions.

I don't like to talk about alternative cartridges in these ### vs *** threads, but the originator has mentioned an alternative now (257AI) so I will echo Tallwalker's remark & say the 6.5X55 is worth looking at. At a case cap. of 58gr. of H20, it has 5% or so more case cap. than the 260. The manuals load the 260 to higher pressure for obvious reasons, but good loads are easy to prepare, I found out by loading for my Wife's 6.5x55. I have a new Speer manual & they have 2 sets of data, but they still loaded the hotter loads at less pressure than the 260 by their own admission, though slight. Bottom line is you can get very slightly more vel than the 260, but not enough to be a deciding factor. And Lapua brass is readily avail for the Swede of course.

Also, most Mauser actions that I have seen have not been really short actions, more like medium in mag. length. For example my Wife's Swede came with some of those 156gr. Mil. round nose & they go right into the mag. This is good for all mentioned but the Swede can really utilize this with 130-140 gr. bullets seated out.

As I said in my first post, the 257 Roberts or 260 has more than enough energy & vel for the 350 yd. max & max animal being Deer sized. Ditto obviously for the AI or Swede. But I do know that you like to shoot at long range paper for fun & in the wind the 6.5 has a clear edge and it just seems right for a Mauser.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 14, 2009, 05:16:53 PM »

Mitch is it a true short action mauser or an intermediate length mauser desingend around the 57 mm cases?

mitchell · « **Reply #33 on:** June 15, 2009, 01:40:12 PM »

it was one of those israel rifles that was converted to 308 , so i would say intermediate its just a slight bit shorted the a 03-a3 and a K98 that i have ill have to look into what modle it is , stil brain storming this idea haven't really looked into it yet

mannyrock · « **Reply #34 on:** June 18, 2009, 04:19:46 AM »

Mitch,

You said you have an Israeli convert to 7.62 NATO? Well, that is somewhat different. With that said, I would take it out to the range, and just cycle, not fire, about 200 rounds through it. If it is totally reliable on the feed and ejection, then this weighs heavily in favor of the .260, which is built on the .308 Winchester case (externally, identical dimensions to the 7.62 Nato). You would just need a new barrel.

On the other hand, these Israeli convert rifles were made by Israel under stressfull circumstances with a shoe string budget. So, it is possible that it won't reliably feed the .308. And if not, then you are back to square one in the analysis. In such case, again, I would recommend the Swede.

P.S.- I just got through reading a lengthy set of posts where a person bought a K-98 in 8mm, and then when through a very lengthy and obviously expensive sporterization, including a new 26 inch stainless barrel, plus stock, plus trigger, plus reworking the bolt handle. He left it in 8mm. I would imagine that his total costs were in the neighborhood of $800 to $1,000?

In the end, he has a very very nice looking rifle, which shoots .84 inch groups with handloads. This is very impressive, but it is only .26 inches tighter shooting than the beautiful Interarms Mark X Mauser that I had, shooting .308 Winchester factory ammo, that I only paid $375 for in excellent used condition. So really, in doing these things, you've got to stop yourself, take a deep breath, and ask yourself whether all of this is really worth it.

Regards,
Mannyrock

bill439 · « **Reply #35 on:** June 18, 2009, 04:41:32 AM »

Both cartridges are great in their own right, But for me, the 6.5 made their fame by shooting big stuff (mule deer, elk, bear, elephant ect.) with 160gr. bullets and of course what sweetwater said, your ability to hit what you shoot at is everything. I have both .257 and 25-06 and several 6.5mm cartridges, to me the 6.5s get the nod on shooting big game. Oh, before everyone gets upset, I don't advocate anyone hunting elephant with any 6.5, however Bell filled many a frezzer with elephant burgers using a 6.5 x 54 MS

mitchell · « **Reply #36 on:** June 18, 2009, 11:45:49 AM »

Mannyrock i do all my own work so the cost will be parts only. plus if i ever want to part ways with it i know ill get more then my money back.

i have a lot of big game guns this one is going to be only for deer and just a go to gun for randomly killing things.

im kinda leaning towards the bob mostly caz if i dont like it i know a 257 roberts in a mauser action will be gone as soon as i put it up for sale. but i've always wanted a 260?

? i really need a new hobby , i guess this means i just have to build two

mjbgalt · « **Reply #37 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:07:46 PM »

then you'll have to tell all the sheep and elk and mule deer that got shot that they shouldn't have died.

-Matt

nomosendero · « **Reply #38 on:** June 18, 2009, 04:13:31 PM »

Quote from: mjbgalt on June 18, 2009, 03:07:46 PM

then you'll have to tell all the sheep and elk and mule deer that got shot that they shouldn't have died.

-Matt

I have been in Memphis since Monday for business, he showed up again didn't he? Oh well

mjbgalt · « **Reply #39 on:** June 20, 2009, 09:47:54 AM »

his post is gone...odd.

maybe he decided i was right?

-Matt

nomosendero · « **Reply #40 on:** June 20, 2009, 06:20:54 PM »

Quote from: mjbgalt on June 20, 2009, 09:47:54 AM

his post is gone...odd.

maybe he decided i was right?

-Matt

Read page 1 & you will know why, I am trying to keep this thread open.

jro45 · « **Reply #41 on:** June 23, 2009, 01:23:22 AM »

You've got alot of information here. But I still would go with the 257 Roberts. They are fun to shoot and can kill game.

mitchell · « **Reply #42 on:** July 06, 2009, 11:00:10 AM »

just put a order in today for a .257 barrel blank. so its the bob for me , thanks for all your help guys. i'm hoping to have it done in time for deer season if i do ill write up a story for yall from startto finish

nomosendero · « **Reply #43 on:** July 06, 2009, 01:39:48 PM »

Quote from: mitchell on July 06, 2009, 11:00:10 AM

just put a order in today for a .257 barrel blank. so its the bob for me , thanks for all your help guys. i'm hoping to have it done in time for deer season if i do ill write up a story for yall from startto finish

Any of your choices would have been more than enough for your stated application, so congrats on getting the project started!!

Let us know how it turns out.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #44 on:** July 06, 2009, 07:27:06 PM »

Quote from: nomosendero on July 06, 2009, 01:39:48 PM

Quote from: mitchell on July 06, 2009, 11:00:10 AM
just put a order in today for a .257 barrel blank. so its the bob for me , thanks for all your help guys. i'm hoping to have it done in time for deer season if i do ill write up a story for yall from startto finish

Any of your choices would have been more than enough for your stated application, so congrats on getting the project started!!

Let us know how it turns out.

Congrats on making a decision!! Keep us posted.

Regards,
Sweetwater

jdt48653 · « **Reply #45 on:** July 07, 2009, 09:00:32 AM »

great classic,great choice!

Trooper Jeff · « **Reply #46 on:** July 07, 2009, 11:12:19 AM »

I've had a 257 Roberts and really liked it. It was my mom's rifle actually...I just got to use it when I was younger. I now own a .260 and absolutley love it. It's one of my favorite rifles.

mitchell · « **Reply #47 on:** July 07, 2009, 04:53:08 PM »

awe man come on now jeff i just made my mind up and now your telling me the 260 is your favorite!!!! your killin me

pastorp · « **Reply #48 on:** July 10, 2009, 03:39:19 AM »

It really dosen't matter what Jeffs favorite rifle is if your shooting it.

At the moment I have one 257bob and 2 260s. But thats just because I gifted my other bob to a friend. I believe I could be perfectly happy shooting either for deer. However I'm not a bolt fan so my bob is in a BLR.

Regards,

jasonprox700 · « **Reply #49 on:** July 11, 2009, 05:08:29 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 13, 2009, 02:45:36 AM

I don't like the .260 at all, but the Bob probably isn't a good choice for the short acton.

Why? Because the .260 recoils like a .243 but hits like a 7mm-08, has great ballistics, and smokes the .257 Roberts? Please explain.

FW Conch · « **Reply #50 on:** July 11, 2009, 07:37:43 AM »

700 , I to would like to hear that explanation ! Truth is, they are both good & , I think, it is just a matter of useage & personal preferance.

nomosendero · « **Reply #51 on:** July 11, 2009, 08:38:36 AM »

Quote from: jasonprox700 on July 11, 2009, 05:08:29 AM

Quote from: Swampman on June 13, 2009, 02:45:36 AM
I don't like the .260 at all, but the Bob probably isn't a good choice for the short acton.

Why? Because the .260 recoils like a .243 but hits like a 7mm-08, has great ballistics, and smokes the .257 Roberts? Please explain.

You already know it can't be explained & is not logical. I encourage you to read the entire thread. If you do, you will see we don't want to go there & I would hate to lock the thread.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 13, 2009, 05:22:33 AM »

Go the 260 Rem.
I like 25 cals but 6.5s have it.
My preference is for 6.5x55 as it is a superior performer IMO and 6.5/284 is even better.
But 6.5x55 often involves fiddling with the mag and even the bolt face at times and American ammo is anaemic.....it totally immasculates the true capabilities of the '55.
It also likes an intermediate (57mm) or standard ('06 length) action best.
And 6.5/284 is a reloading option only and means the feed rails have to be modified.
So 260 Rem is the best option.
A wide range of heavier pills that the 25 cal simply doesn't offer, premium factory ammo with good projectiles and a case specifically designed for short actions.

nomosendero · « **Reply #53 on:** July 13, 2009, 11:33:20 AM »

Kombi, he has made his choice.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #54 on:** July 13, 2009, 05:03:36 PM »

I apologise.
I failed to notice that.
The 257 Roberts is a fine cartridge and will serve him well.
It just would not be my choice for big game.
If a bullet companies decided to experiment with a 135gr or 140gr pill in 257 cal they would increase the capabilities of rounds like the Roberts, 25-06 and 257 Wby Mag.
It is only the ceiling of 120gr that I feel limits 25 cals.

nomosendero · « **Reply #55 on:** July 13, 2009, 05:16:42 PM »

Quote from: kombi1976 on July 13, 2009, 05:03:36 PM

I apologise.
I failed to notice that.
The 257 Roberts is a fine cartridge and will serve him well.
It just would not be my choice for big game.
If a bullet companies decided to experiment with a 135gr or 140gr pill in 257 cal they would increase the capabilities of rounds like the Roberts, 25-06 and 257 Wby Mag.
It is only the ceiling of 120gr that I feel limits 25 cals.

No problem

But about his choice, keep this in mind. His application is Deer & out to 300 yds, not a stretch for the Roberts at all.
He stated he had plenty of rifles for bigger game & this rifle has the limited use stated above.
The .25cal 120 Nos. Part. has a SD of .260 & the 140gr. 270 has a SD of .261, so virtually identical penetration. And the Roberts can push that bullet fast enough to expand @ 300yds & complete penetration even a sharp angles, not lacking in any way.

jedman · « **Reply #56 on:** July 16, 2009, 03:33:23 PM »

Years ago I owned a Mauser 98 in 257 Roberts that my uncle had custom built in the 1950/s. It was a great gun , very smooth bolt and accurate and had real pretty wood and checkering. Like a fool I traded it and have regretted getting rid of it ever since. I used it mostly for varmits but never shot any deer with it.
But knowing what I know now, ( 35 years later ) If I was building one up for DEER HUNTING as the main purpose , I would go with the 260 REM.
The two are very similar in power when handloaded in a bolt rifle but the chioce of bullets in a 6.5 mm are just plain better for deer sized game. Jed

Sweetwater · « **Reply #57 on:** July 16, 2009, 07:15:33 PM »

Quote from: jedman on July 16, 2009, 03:33:23 PM

Years ago I owned a Mauser 98 in 257 Roberts that my uncle had custom built in the 1950/s. It was a great gun , very smooth bolt and accurate and had real pretty wood and checkering. Like a fool I traded it and have regretted getting rid of it ever since. I used it mostly for varmits but never shot any deer with it.
But knowing what I know now, ( 35 years later ) If I was building one up for DEER HUNTING as the main purpose , I would go with the 260 REM.
The two are very similar in power when handloaded in a bolt rifle but the chioce of bullets in a 6.5 mm are just plain better for deer sized game. Jed

I have to disagree with the last sentence. There doesn't need to be anything better for deer than the selection available for the 25's. The shooter needs to do their part in delivering the goods. 100gr Winchester Silvertips in the anemic factory loads of the early 50's accounted for several deer in our family freezer hovering around the 400 yard mark. How? The shooter knew his rifle! In my rack are two Remington 722's chambered in 257Roberts and a Ruger Mark II in 6.5x55. I love the 6.5, but the 257's have history as "the deer rifles" in our family.

Besides, the Author already decided to go with the 257Roberts.
We should encourage his decision for what it is; a great choice!

Regards,
Sweetwater

mitchell · « **Reply #58 on:** September 06, 2009, 05:58:44 PM »

well i got the barrel and action put together i just got to bedded the stock and ill be good to go . ill post some pics here soon showin the project

Sweetwater · « **Reply #59 on:** September 06, 2009, 06:07:38 PM »

Way cool!

Be ready for this season or planning for next year?

Regards,
Sweetwater