Author Topic: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive  (Read 671 times)

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Offline Matt

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US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« on: June 14, 2009, 08:46:21 PM »
Dozens of US cities may have entire neighbourhoods bulldozed as part of drastic "shrink to survive" proposals being considered by the Obama administration to tackle economic decline.

By Tom Leonard in Flint, Michigan
Published: 6:30PM BST 12 Jun 2009


The US government is looking at expanding a pioneering scheme in Flint, one of the poorest US cities, which involves razing entire districts and returning the land to nature Photo: GETTY


The government looking at expanding a pioneering scheme in Flint, one of the poorest US cities, which involves razing entire districts and returning the land to nature.

Local politicians believe the city must contract by as much as 40 per cent, concentrating the dwindling population and local services into a more viable area.

The radical experiment is the brainchild of Dan Kildee, treasurer of Genesee County, which includes Flint.

Having outlined his strategy to Barack Obama during the election campaign, Mr Kildee has now been approached by the US government and a group of charities who want him to apply what he has learnt to the rest of the country.

Mr Kildee said he will concentrate on 50 cities, identified in a recent study by the Brookings Institution, an influential Washington think-tank, as potentially needing to shrink substantially to cope with their declining fortunes.

Most are former industrial cities in the "rust belt" of America's Mid-West and North East. They include Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Memphis.

In Detroit, shattered by the woes of the US car industry, there are already plans to split it into a collection of small urban centres separated from each other by countryside.

"The real question is not whether these cities shrink – we're all shrinking – but whether we let it happen in a destructive or sustainable way," said Mr Kildee. "Decline is a fact of life in Flint. Resisting it is like resisting gravity."

Karina Pallagst, director of the Shrinking Cities in a Global Perspective programme at the University of California, Berkeley, said there was "both a cultural and political taboo" about admitting decline in America.

"Places like Flint have hit rock bottom. They're at the point where it's better to start knocking a lot of buildings down," she said.

Flint, sixty miles north of Detroit, was the original home of General Motors. The car giant once employed 79,000 local people but that figure has shrunk to around 8,000.

Unemployment is now approaching 20 per cent and the total population has almost halved to 110,000.

The exodus – particularly of young people – coupled with the consequent collapse in property prices, has left street after street in sections of the city almost entirely abandoned.

In the city centre, the once grand Durant Hotel – named after William Durant, GM's founder – is a symbol of the city's decline, said Mr Kildee. The large building has been empty since 1973, roughly when Flint's decline began.

Regarded as a model city in the motor industry's boom years, Flint may once again be emulated, though for very different reasons.

But Mr Kildee, who has lived there nearly all his life, said he had first to overcome a deeply ingrained American cultural mindset that "big is good" and that cities should sprawl – Flint covers 34 square miles.

He said: "The obsession with growth is sadly a very American thing. Across the US, there's an assumption that all development is good, that if communities are growing they are successful. If they're shrinking, they're failing."

But some Flint dustcarts are collecting just one rubbish bag a week, roads are decaying, police are very understaffed and there were simply too few people to pay for services, he said.

If the city didn't downsize it will eventually go bankrupt, he added.

Flint's recovery efforts have been helped by a new state law passed a few years ago which allowed local governments to buy up empty properties very cheaply.

They could then knock them down or sell them on to owners who will occupy them. The city wants to specialise in health and education services, both areas which cannot easily be relocated abroad.

The local authority has restored the city's attractive but formerly deserted centre but has pulled down 1,100 abandoned homes in outlying areas.

Mr Kildee estimated another 3,000 needed to be demolished, although the city boundaries will remain the same.

Already, some streets peter out into woods or meadows, no trace remaining of the homes that once stood there.

Choosing which areas to knock down will be delicate but many of them were already obvious, he said.

The city is buying up houses in more affluent areas to offer people in neighbourhoods it wants to demolish. Nobody will be forced to move, said Mr Kildee.

"Much of the land will be given back to nature. People will enjoy living near a forest or meadow," he said.

Mr Kildee acknowledged that some fellow Americans considered his solution "defeatist" but he insisted it was "no more defeatist than pruning an overgrown tree so it can bear fruit again".

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5516536/US-cities-may-have-to-be-bulldozed-in-order-to-survive.html

Matt
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Offline BBF

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2009, 12:29:55 AM »
I really don't know what to think on this. :-\ There are ghost towns of bygone times with perhaps historical value but letting parts of modern cities just crumble may not be an answer either.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2009, 01:13:26 AM »
Better than letting them sit in dis-repair. Put some of the healthy people on assistance to work by tearing down some of the old house's. Let them keep the materials to fix up where they live now. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2009, 07:48:48 AM »
Smaller cities = easier fot the government to controll the people.
They are all in one area!


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Offline burntmuch

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2009, 11:11:08 AM »
I worked in Flint as a Firefighter/Paramedic for 8 years. lay offs pushed me into greener pastures. 80% of the population of Flint is dead weight. Nastiest city in the USA. They need to put up a fence around the City & use it for Sniper training.
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Offline Questor

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2009, 03:38:43 PM »
That is a very interesting variation on the land reforms that made housing in California so expensive. The land is there but since so much of it is designated as nature land it cannot be built on. Thus the price of property increased dramatically, and consequently the price of homes went very high. It's an example of government intervention that eliminates a free market and imposes a sort of black market. It makes me wonder what they are thinking in an undesirable place like Flint Michigan, which has no industry, a harsh climate, declining society, and no prospects for improvement. Do they really see a benefit in making more difficult to own land?
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Offline Questor

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2009, 03:39:34 PM »
...by the way, Egad! Burntmuch. That place obviously left a bad taste in your mouth.
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Offline burntmuch

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 04:17:58 PM »
Just all that is wrong with this country. crooked politicians, big business sending jobs overseas, huge portion of the population on welfare with no desire to get a job. No bad taste in my mouth. Great place to get some exsperience as firefighter & paramedic.
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Offline hillbill

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2009, 04:29:32 PM »
shore hate to see them do that, one thing bout citys is that they are a excellent place for city people to live.i sure dont want them out here in the borderlands. they end up starveing and then they git rowdy and then bad stuff happens to them.sure hate to see that.might thin them out a bit tho, no harm in that.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2009, 12:54:52 AM »
Just had another thought. For the people still living in areas like this, when they tear down a couple house's, or factory, open it back up as cummunity gardens and farms.
Instead of just giving out welfare/food assistence, let them raise their own. Small 1-3 acre plots where several familys could get together and provide for themselves.
I think that is such a good idea, I think I'll go out and become a cummunity organizer.  gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 01:02:32 AM »
the places that you move the people to in many cases will soon look like where you moved them from . So what's the point ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2009, 02:23:26 AM »
why  don't they just  move  the worthless  katrina victims there

and not waste money rebuilding  new orleans  ....below sea level


i  bet you will find  some one making a lot of money  doing the demo work
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2009, 02:31:20 AM »
45-70.gov
  really , i had people making $ 18 an hour leave to make money in the high 20's rebuilding in N.O . we couldn't get material because it was being sent and stored to rebuild N.O.
somebody is making money !
If you want to change a city then make it worth while for private investors to do so . Nothing different that what they already do for off shore investors .
Wouldn't that be a novel idea treat American's as well as they treat others .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2009, 02:38:00 AM »
isn't that   what the obamanation  is  doing

to  everything  in  this country  auto,  finance,   health care 


he does everything  to tear it down

so  his  puppet master  can  rebuild  it  on  their  terms
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2009, 02:38:48 AM »
haven't seen anything start to rebuild yet have you ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2009, 02:46:08 AM »
i  heard  a while back  waring  buffet  made a killing in the stock market

big things are  coming

this guy  is  hitler....at  least  the ones pulling his strings are
they will make the trains run  on time

then try to dominate the world.....just like hitler
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Mikey

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2009, 02:52:34 AM »
A system based on constant expansion that begins to contract acts like a dying star and will eventually create a black hole - into which lots of tax money falls without any visible effect.

Some cities use abandoned houses and buildings as a basis for eminent domain decisions to remove those buildings and re-create open lands, even if only one plot size at a time, for public use such as gardening or beautification.  It is much less expensive and detracting then allowing abondoned buildings to be used as squatter shelters, drug houses or places where other crimes are rampant.  Removing delapidated buildings, adding open beautification and lighting helps to move criminal activity out of that area.  It is not meant to displace one element of the criminal society from one spot to another, it can be used to keep them moving and unable to set up a more permanet 'residence'.....

When you have crack houses, prostitutes, drug dealers and pimps in neighborhoods where kids have to pass by every day on the way to school, you endanger them; by allowing those places to remain you enable crime to more effectively prey upon school age children.  I feel it is the worst of possible scenarios.  

What do you do with the people - many leave for other places or have already left and what remains is a costly, delapidated locale that becomes a visual and societal detriment.  Some, such as the older folk, can be moved to better locations.  Many are unable to move because of age and expense; many just want society to take care of them as they have been led to believe that society will provide for them under entitlement concepts.  

Trying to maintain and constantly repair older buildings is beyond the physical and financial ability of many who live in those run down areas but it does not mean that helping (some of ) those people relocate mean you are simply re-creating another slum or ghetto elsewhere.  It means that for many, and I suspect the majority, a better existence that they will appreciate and strive to maintain.

I believe that of all the poor and impoverishted (?sp) we talk about in these areas, only a very small percentage create the type of cultural/societal situation (crime) that many portray as so incredibly rampant it would lead us to believe that all those people are criminals.  I feel that if we give those who want the chance, that the opportunity to improve their lives and conditions benefits us all.  

I also believe we should make it very tough on crime but not for those who really need the help.  I see nothing wrong with beautifying entire sections of run down cities by removing delapidated buildings in crime infested areas.  It is much less taxing financially to mow grass in parks and replace a few street lights than it is to have to maintain a constantly increasing police presence and deal with constantly increasing crime.  JMTCW.

Offline BBF

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2009, 06:53:43 AM »
shootall:
They are going full throttle on rebuilding NO. Contractors putting in12 to 15 hour days.  Money is pouring in from  the Govt and private Insurance Co.The problem I see is that NO is still in the same location at the same sea level and subject to another similar disaster.
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Offline burntmuch

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2009, 07:09:13 AM »
How dare you suggest they build their new homes somewhere other than the mud puddle that should be a lake
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Offline BBF

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2009, 07:30:16 AM »
 :o

Who me ??!!
Wouldn't think of meddling in US affairs. :-*
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2009, 08:08:34 AM »
well all righty then !
Is that why the mayor calls it a choc. city ? the mudhole ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !