smith & wesson Nightguard 396

[44joe]

Hello, I am considering the S&W Nightguard 44 special, model 396.  I'm a sucker for the 44 cal.  Any way, looking back at an older Handloader Mag, Aug 2007, Brian Pearce recomended a few loads for the 44 special  using the 250 Keith bullet or clones that operated at 25,000 PSI.  Is the 396 with it's stainless steel cylinder strong enough to handle 25,000 PSI ?  I know recoil would be lively, but I don't plan on hundreds of rounds a day! 

If the 396 can handle that pressure level, does anyone have a load at that level using a 240 XTP?  Or the Gold Dot HP.

Thanks in advance for any advice.  If the 396 isn't up to the task, I'll just move up to the 329 Nightguard.  Recoil isn't a concern!

Joe   

[mcwoodduck]

Seems a little hot for a CCW or Home protection load.
As far as a mini magnum or +P 44 special I would not think a warm special would hurt the gun for a once in a while shooting and cary while hiking in the woods.  Even if the gun could handle a HOT special I do not think I would want one as a woods walking gun.
I think I want to be able to make multiple hits on something comming at me and make them count in as fast as possible.
I load 180 grain bullets to 1,000 FPS as a warm special for my 44s and they are plenty powerful but still a joy to shoot.
If you are looking at a 3" as a hunting gun.....I would keep looking for something with a little longer sight radius.
Well who am I to tell you what to do.
But look in the loading manuals and see what the SAMMI specs are for 44 Special and keep your reloads to with in that spec.
You may be suprised as to what you can find that will work in the 44 special.  When I was looking I was looking for a target load with enough poop to carry bowling pins clear of the table and still be able to see the pins and table.

[Mikey]

Joe:  I would check with S&W first; call them or e-mail them with your question and let them tell you what pressure ranges their different 44s are rated for.  The 44 Special is a pretty low pressure round with Winchester factory loads operating at 12-13k cup for a 246 gn slug at 800'/sec and what the Pearce article recommended is nearing 44 magnum pressure levels.

I would use the loads recommended by Pearce in a N-frame 44 magnum but would be hugely tempted not to do so in a lighter frame revolver. 

I believe those loads Pearce recommended are pretty much in the pressure range of loads Keith may have worked up when he was developing his heavy flat nosed semi-wadcutter bullet designs and his higher pressure 44 special loading for hunting large game animals.  The 44 Spl, although considered somewhat anemic by someone's standards, is more than adequate for personal defense.  Simply using a semi-wadcutter design like the Keith bullet, even while staying at factory velocites, gives the load that much more effect. 

You don't have to make a magnum of the 44 special to effectively defend yourself.  Keith and company designed the 44 magnum to hunt large dangerous game.  HTH.

[44joe]

Thanks for the replies.  I agree that Pearce's loads are max and I don't think I would feed it a steady diet, but it would be comforting to know that "if the need/want" occurred, it can handle it.   I don't want to make it a 44 mag either, I already have a Super Red Hawk for that but I do feel the factory 246 RN leaves room for improvement.  I would be happy with 900 fps with a SWC in the 240/250 range.  I will send S&W an email, but I'm not holding my breath for a reply.

Joe

[bluecow]

plese let us know.  thanks

[Mikey]

Joe:  a 240-250 gn cast slug in a 44 spl at 900'/sec is within (should be) the pressure ranges of the 44 spl cartridge and would or should be about all you should ask from the special.  You are correct about the factory 44 with the round nose slug leaving room for improvement and that one solid measure of improvement is the use of a semi-wadcutter slug - imho.  I s'pose another 100'/sec is also a improvement butany time you might have to use such a load for personal defense I am sure the recipient won't know the difference...........

BTW - I have always found the S&W folk to be extremely reliable, and responsive.

[45-70.gov]

why  are  full wadcutter  so common  in a 38 special
and unheard  of  in the 44 special

i an  impressed  with the effect of the wadcutter in  small game 
other than that  no experience

i  load  my  44 specials  with   a 280 g  WFN  from  LBT ... yet to  crony

[44joe]

what gun are you shooting the 280 gr bullet from?  I use that particular one in my SRH 44 mag.  Full dose of H110, does wonders on deer!  I think that would be too heavy a bullet for the lightweight snubbies as you would get bullet pull. 

Joe

[45-70.gov]

charter bulldog......cant remember how much  bullseye

i  like the  h110  in my  629s and ruger bh  and  handi  and winchester trapper


it is hard  to make a poor load using this slug

only shot small game  tho   
with  3 graisns  bullseye in a 22 inch  handi  it is deadly  and quiet  and accuate

[44joe]

I just got a reply from Smith & Wesson.  Quote, "No weight limits, SAMMI spec ammo only."  I really wasn't expecting much more.  The response was probably "lawyer approved", and I can understand why, but I was hoping for more.

Joe

[Mikey]

Joe:  I would find out what the SAAMI specs are.  I do not doubt the 396 will handle a occasional load of heavier rounds but I would stay away from them for the most part - simply not necessary.

45-70:  there is a nice wadcutter slug for the 44 spl/mag at 180 grains.  I havae shot some of these before and they make for a nice light and accurate load.  I would not have any problems using them on small game within 50 yds as it is hard to stabalize a wadcutter slug after that.  JMTCW.

[44joe]

Hey 45-70, I'm sure that 180 gr'r is a nice shooting load, I guess I'm looking for a bit more weight in a bullet.  I was on the Buffalo Bore web site and looked at their "Heavy 44 special" loads.  It was a 255 grain SWC @ about 1000 fps.  They said it was rated for game up to 400lb !  Just under that it said the load was safe in modern 44 specials except the Charter Arms Bulldog.  I'm not sure  but I think the factory loaded 246 RN is loaded to around 15,000 psi or less.  I don't plan to hunt with the gun, just carry for PD and I don't think I need to worry about a 400lb two legged attacker. 

I'm kind of torn now, maybe I'll just get the 329 and load it down if I want to plink, and carry somekind of 240 factory load.  I sure did like the smaller size of the 396 for carry though.

Torn!

BTW, has anyone read Mike Venterino's article "44 Not so special"  errrrrrrrrrrr

Joe

[Dr. A]

A year or two ago a buddy of mine (LEO) got one of the earlier 396's.  It was capable of handling the pressures, but had gas cutting something severe when using Pearce's loads.  We found the cast didn't work near as well as the jacketed for accuracy, and it was heck to hold onto as well. A steel gun stands out in my mind as to having big advantages when trying out these loads.   The newer ones are a bit heavier, and should bite a bit less.  They are not heavily made, and my buddy still has it, but gave up on a SWC heavier load for his purposes.  The gas cutting was dealt with by Smith, but we've not pursued the loads since then.