Shipping rifles

[rickt300]

Well I am going varmint hunting in Wyoming.  I am flying to two other places to visit before I get to Wyoming so I figure to ship it.  Is USPS the only way?  I know to ship to a FFL holder.  Can I use UPS?  Can I ship the rifle in a Doskocil plastic case thoroughly and securely taped closed?  I have to ship tommorow so any quick help will be apreciated.

[quickdtoo]

You don't need to ship your own rifle to an FFL for sporting purposes, USPS is good but you can't ship ammo, that must be shipped by UPS ground if that's your intent, UPS accepts firearms also at their Customer Centers, but not at stores or 3rd party retailers, ammo must be shipped separately.  Assuming this is an H&R, I'd break it down so it doesn't look like a gun, shipping a gun case just invites trouble IMO.

Tim

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b9

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faqindex.htm

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html

[trotterlg]

It is no big deal to fly with a gun.  You can also ship the ammo in the case with the gun, so it is dead easy.  Read the airline rules, no biggie, in a locked hard sided case and a set weight of ammo in proper boxes can go with it.  I do it all the time.  A month or so ago I flew back from AZ on the weekend the NRA convention ended, the airport check in guy told me there had been 2,000 guns through the airport that weekend.  Larry

[rickt300]

Thanks Tim, you are invaluable.  Trotterlg, I have flown many times with firearms but this is a tricky trip.  I am visiting my mother in Arizona, my father in North Carolina, then going to Denver and taking a hop flight to Rock Springs.  On top of this I am flying standby as i am an ex American Airlines employee which means my rifle might get on a plane I don't.

[myarmor]

An interesting trip indeed. My best to your folks in your travels.





-Aaron

[rickt300]

Funny thing about my parents, they are always happy to see me.  Something I have noticed about time, I am only 53 and my parents are in their 70's.  I'm getting a bit creaky so I can only imagine how tough it is to be in the mid to late 70's.  I am not taking my Handi rifle on this trip as I sent it in to get a 223 heavy barrel fitted, I wanted a new 1 in 9 twist barrel that I plan on getting rechambered to 22-250 so I can shoot the heavier weight bullets at deer.  This trip came on me with little warning or I would have taken the Handi with the 223 barrel I have for it.  I am truly hoping to get the 22-250 together before deer season, my gunsmith has the reamer but the question is how long will it be till I get my rifle back from H&R/ Remington.

[rickt300]

Well even though federal law says I can ship a rifle to myself this really means nothing to UPS or Fedex.  Their company policy requires I ship to a FFL holder.  Kind of odd, they are interstate shipping companies which are under federal law yet they are under no pressure to follow the law.  I really don't expect Eric holder to stand up for me but I am going to annoy him about it.

[quickdtoo]

They're only reading part of the rules, sometimes the ignorance is on the other side of the counter, the last sentence in their rules has you covered, I'd ship it by USPS myself, I only use UPS when I have to.

Tim

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms
Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
UPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code, for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States) and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), and from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and package.

[trotterlg]

Use the USPS, they can't ask you what is in the package, only if it is breakable or prohibited.  Larry

[rickt300]

My experience with shipping USPS has generally shown poor handling of packages. Also I have had them ask what is in the packages.  As to USPS in the ATF code they can't ship a rifle out of state to a un licsenced person.  Your right though, they don't hire especially smart people at the counters. Beyond all I hate to lie about anything.

[quickdtoo]

My experience with shipping USPS has generally shown poor handling of packages. Also I have had them ask what is in the packages.  As to USPS in the ATF code they can't ship a rifle out of state to a un licsenced person.  Your right though, they don't hire especially smart people at the counters. Beyond all I hate to lie about anything.

Pack it right to begin with and you won't have any problems, in my 32yrs of postal service, THE number one cause of package loss/damage was irresponsible packing by the mailer!!! Read the regs concerning mailing long guns, as long as you're not transferring ownership, there's no reason to ship to an FFL, and the USPS cannot dictate as to the legality of shipping a rifle or shotgun.

Tim

http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.pdf

432 Mailability

432.1 General

The following conditions apply:

a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on
the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable in the domestic
mail except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0.

b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable
firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable
except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0 or C024.2.0.

c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are
generally permitted as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.2.0.

d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies
with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C.
921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or
by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from
mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.

432.3 Packaging and Marking

No markings of any kind that indicate the nature of the contents may be
placed on the outside wrapper or container of any mailpiece containing
firearms. Mailable matter must be properly and securely packaged within the
general packaging requirements in DMM C010.


433 Mailer Responsibility
Even though certain types of firearms are permitted to be mailed within the
provisions of the postal law in 18 U.S.C. 1715, it is the mailer’s responsibility
to comply with all federal and state regulations and local ordinances affecting
the movement of firearms.


434 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms

Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any
shipment of rifles or shotguns. Mailers should be referred to the nearest
regional ATF office for further advice. See 435 and Exhibit 435.

[rickt300]

It turns out that on the route between North Carolina and Wyoming I'll have to do a layover at DFW (Dallas/Fort Worth airport)  so I'll just get my rifle and fly it from there to Denver and take a short hop flight to Rock Springs.  The gophers and prairie dogs are going to be in trouble as will a couple of coyotes.

[bigvarmnt]

Sounds like a good trip! I flew to Denver for a few days, shot some PDs and some rocks. Flew from Denver to Tucson and they were giving out hassels leaving Denver. Don't know why. Wasn't a big problem, just not needed. Hope you have a good time.

[Sourdough]

Last year I flew to the states and took a two rifles and my CCW pistol with me on the plane.  To return I would be driving through Canada, so I decided to ship the rifles home.  The pistol I left with my brother, I'll pick it up later, or he can bring it to me when he flys up.

On a Saturday morning, I boxed them up and took them to the Post Office in Dallas Texas.  The woman that was accepting the package wanted to know if it was anything hazardous, I said no.  She looked at the box then asked "Is there guns in here"?  I was not going to lie, I said yes.  She told me to take them and get off the property, if I did not she was going to call the police and have me arrested for bring guns into the post office.  I asked to speak to the Post Master.  She came out and said the same thing.  I left.

The following Monday, I went to the Main Area Post Office and asked to speak to the Area Post Master.  She had heard about my incident, and at first was defending her employees.  I showed her my IDs.  She refused my Retired Military ID, because it did not show my beard.  She said she could not ship guns at first.  I told her I shipped them several times a year from North Pole through the USPS.  She called the Post Office in North Pole, they gave her the reg numbers and page numbers to find the rules for shipping guns.  She finally had to go out and order an employee to accept my guns, and they did get shipped from me to me. 

So be prepared, it may take a short time to get them shipped, but the USPS is the best way I think.