SECOND THOUGHTS ON CONTROLLED ROUND FEED (CRF)

[razmuz]

I've shot "push Feed" bolt actions most all my shooting life.  With chagrin I admit I fell victim to the Magazine Writers and their stories of the "massive" (their word) claw extractors.  Let me tell you folks, the CRF is a pain in the donkey.  If you pull the bolt all the way back they will most always bind and if your like me most of your shooting is at the range getting ready for the four or five shots you will use during hunting season.  You can't put one round at a time in the breech, you've got to shove the round down into the magazine and then close the bolt.  It might be easier with a detachable magazine, I don't know.  Within the last two weeks I sold (gave away) five L/H push feed rifles and immediately bought two R/H CRF's, a Tikka and a CZ.  Both good rifles and accurate, but as I said a pain in the butt.  My son is going to have a good christmas and guess who I'm going to visit?  MR. Remingington.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Unless you're going for something that bites back---controlled round feed is more of a useless gimmick-----and I'm not so sure on dangerous game rifles either----as my new .338 is a push feeder.

[High Brass]

I have a Ruger M77mkII that is CRF and works flawlessly.   I can drop a round in the breech and close it without loading it into the mag.  If I put the rounds in the mag, then the CRF comes into play.

[Sean]

I am not sure about the rifles you mentioned but I do know that on Mauser 98s the extractor can be reshaped and polished some to allow the extractor to snap over the loaded round as it chambers. Sean

[Dave in WV]

A good pushfeed design with a large extractor is probably just as efficient as a CRF design. This is where a Remington 700 is weak with it's spring steel insert for an extractor. When a CRF rifle chambers a round you don't have to turn the bolt down to get the extractor to grab the cartridge and a new cartridge can't be stripped from the magazine until the ejector knocks the captured round off of the bolt. Mauser designed the controlled round feed for military use as it's more fool proof (you can't double feed it). If operated properly both feed designs are probably equal in reliability. I like my Ruger M77 MKII and Win. M70 Classic. I can close the bolt on a chambered round that was not stripped from the magazine. A drop of CLP oil smeared on the bolt body of my Ruger stops the binding. My M70 bolt doesn't bind.  Dave

[razmuz]

If you have to modify the claw to get it to perform like the P/F why not buy the P/F in the first place?  I know most people stand up for what they already have, but when buying a new rifle one should think about the quirks of the CRF.  As the man said, if your hunting Rhino the CRF might be the thing.  Additionally, I've heard of the Remingtons weak extractor before.  I've never had a problem with Big Green extractors and have never hunted with anyone that has.

[Zachary]

Unless you're going for something that bites back---controlled round feed is more of a useless gimmick-----and I'm not so sure on dangerous game rifles either----as my new .338 is a push feeder.

I agree.  I think the CRF is more important in theory than in practice.  Don't get me wrong, I too have fallen victim to this "theory" and, as a result, I have bought about 5 M70 Winchester rifles with the CRF - of which include a .338 and .375H&H.  Still, I'm sure that I bought them, inter alia, beause of this CRF hype.

Zachary

[razmuz]

Hey Zack, I never had a rifle from "inter alia".  Where can I get in contact with them.

[Lawdog]

razmuz,

If you pull the bolt all the way back they will most always bind

Out of all of my CRF's(4 FN 98 Mauser's, 8 Ruger M77's, 7 Win. M70's and a couple of older Sako's) none have ever bound up at any time.  Never a feed problem either.  Maybe you were doing something wrong?  The only both action rifle to ever give me a feeding problem was a Remington.  Lawdog

[gunnut69]

I own both CRF and Pushfeed designs.  The CRF rifles are a bit slicker when fed from the magazine and there is a considerable difference in the amount of case rim the normal CRF extractor grabs than that of say a M700 or even the M70 pushfeed.  I've been working on guns to one degree or another for over 30 years and the only CRF extractors I've seen fail were Mausers broken trying to close the bolt on a chambered round and ignorant of how to go about it.  The Current M70 as well as the pre-64's don't seem to have the problem.  I have however fixed a bunch of Pushfeeds(mostly M700's) where the extractor has failed..  As to bench shooting with a CRF they are a bit easier in my estimation as the empty round is not flipped to the ground the instant it clears the chamber.  it is simply retracted from the chamber and is easily removed from the ejection port and replaced in the box...  Better find a different reason to buy a rifle(or condem one) than the extractor type!!

[Muddyboots]

Since I also suffer from CRS (can't remember sh*t), I am not sure what the big deal is? I own both types and couldn't care less which rifle I was using whether it was CRF or PF. They all shot where I aimed them. Both have good points but that is like comparing the length of actions. They all have their good points. I'd be more concerned over fit and finish of the rifle, barrel smoothness and whether the trigger would go off under the lawyer setting of 6 pounds. If I use my CRF I use the magazine, no big deal, if I use one of Big Green's rifles, I just drop it in...so what...They both shot great. Even under dangerous game conditions, I don't think I would be overly concerned. An awful lot of big bears are killed each year with 700's. If I was that worried over it I'd buy a double to be sure. I wouldn't reject a rifle based upon feed design that's for sure.
Muddyboots