O-Ring Madness...

[Busta]

...for lack of a better term. I think I may have a lifetime supply now, this will keep me busy for awhile.



I have done some primer testing with the quad in the 7/8" MU plug, and a pretty good range session. I have also done some primer testing only with a very small diameter (thickness) 6.5mm O.D. x 4.5mm I.D. x 1mm thick with very good results. The latter is really about .040" thick and may work better in some of the tight headspaced 7/8" plugs. I will do some actual shooting with that o-ring the next time the Huntsman comes up in the rotation.

These are the o-rings I have on hand at the moment. From center (metric) then top and clockwise (1/4" O.D. x 1/8" I.D. x 1/16" thick) for the remainder, type of materiallisted at the end:

Black, round, 6.5mm O.D. x 4.5mm I.D. x 1mm thick, Buna-N
Black, square, Buna-N
Orange-Red, round, Silicone
Black, quad, Buna-N
Brown, round, Viton
Black, round, Buna-N
Green, round, Buna-N



Here is a couple shots of the Remington STS primers (Win W209 in center for control sample), note the front two were with the very thin metirc o-ring pictured center in above pic. They still maintained a perfect seal, but need to be further tested under load. Notice the carbon on the face because of larger diameter I.D.




I have done some measureing and fitting, the square cross-sectioned o-ring should be just about perfect for the 5/8" breech plugs. Especially for the guys with extra headspace. The Remington STS primers average right around .295" +/- .002" in my sample, if you need more length the Win W-209's are always .300" to .305" in my experience. Quad on left, square on right.

[Scibaer]

Busta,
 i have been following your posts, and respect your efforts. but i have a question. first let me say, i have a .50 cal. huntsman barrel that i put on a 1973 circa .410 shotgun frame, with monte carlo stock, the ml wears a scope, no sight. ok, my 7/8 plug with carriers works well ( factory application, no mods ) with 209 CCI primers. i honestly dont understand why you are going thru all this fuss, am i missing something ? i admit that the carriers can be a pain, but they work well enough for me atleast, but what are you looking to do ? gain ? get me up to speed here. help me understand.
glenn

[jenkst]

I dont pretend to know as much as Busta about the handi muzzleloader but I believe its all about having a much cleaner reciever, fireing pin, and maybe some really tight groups. He and others have done a great job geting a handi to its potenial as a great muzzleloader. I think you probably agree.    Jenks

[Busta]

Glenn,

It is real simple, try some Blackhorn 209 powder in your rifle and you will instantly see why. Last April I pretty much switched all my rifles over to Blackhorn 209, except for the #11 ignition rifles.

The standard primer carriers work for most powders, but not reliably for BH209. BH209 needs a hot primer and contained pressure for instant ignition,the carriers just allow too much flame and blowback to leak out the breech. This causes hang/delayed fires and massive blowback. I am not a fan of blowback, and always looking for ways to get rid of it.

I am using these in the Metrics Unlimited breech plugs that dont' require a primer carrier. One o-ring will last for a whole shooting session or more. The carriers list at $15 for 10, and just how long do you think Remington will still have these made and available for 2 discontinued muzzleloaders? I would bet they will not making any more, most places supplies have dried up that I have seen.

Your primer carrier cost's $1.50 a piece, my o-ring cost's from 2 cents to 10 cents a piece, depending on which type. How long do your carriers last you (how many shots)? I have shot over 40 shots on one 2 cent o-ring, and it was still sealing out blowback.

For most guys that only shoot their rifle maybe once to sight it in before season, it probably isn't a big deal at all. I have several muzzleloaders and shoot all year round, I want the most effective set-up I can shoot.

So, at least I try to think there is a "method to my madness".

[Scibaer]

Busta,
 you are probably correct in saying that the plastic primer carriers will probably disappear soon. thats reason enough to start on something new. i looked at the blackhorn 209 site, reads like its good powder, except it needing a hotter spark to ignite it. so, i can follow where you are going with  sealing the gasses and eliminating any blowback or spark loss.  thank you for taking the time to lay out what your working towards for me, i now can see whats what. i agree you do have a method to the madness, and i think it maybe time i look to getting the MU plug at least.
i will continue to follow your efforts and say a thank you for them.
glenn

[coop2564]

Busta,
Any material holding up better than others?

[Busta]

Busta,
Any material holding up better than others?

Coop,

I haven't did any testing with the Silicone or Viton yet, as they are round ones. There are several different types of o-rings, some very expensive, but the cheaper Buna-N o-rings have been doing fine. You can ge 100 of the Buna-N black round ones for $1.87 at McMaster-Carr. After testing the quad above, which is also Buna-N, I'm not sure that the other materials could do any better. After all, we are subjecting these o-rings to extreme heat and pressure, something they are not designed to do, but are doing very well IMO. I will be testing the square type next in my 26" barrel with the 5/8" MU breech plug. If you are short on compression, this is the o-ring to have. Remember the 5/8" plugs were designed by Nick to headspace the primer off the rim, I just dropped an o-ring in first to headspace off the front since the space was already there.

Here is a pic of a quad on the left that has 6 primers and 34 powder/bullet loads through it. The one on the right is a new one for comparison. I had to blow it up to show the wash out, which is very little. It still looks close to new without the magnification and would probably last for at least 100 shots, maybe more.




I am going to go out on a limb here and bet that the square type might just get twice that, just because of its construction. This o-ring will be the ultimate seal IMO, I will determine that on the range soon.

The Silicone is rated from -65 to +450 F, the Viton is rated from -15 to 400 F, the black round Buna-N is rated from -35 to + 250 F, the quad Buna-N is rated from -40 to +250 F, and the square Buna-N is rated from -20 to +225 F. Of course these ratings are really not relevant to the tourture they are being subjected to, but information none the less.

[Doug B.]

Busta,

When testing, let us know how the flash hole holds up to the BH209. I either missed a previous post(s) or more so, have not fired enough consecutive shots to see if the flash hole stays "clear".

Thanks Busta and we all appreciate your info!

[Busta]

Doug,

After 35-40 shots it will have just a little carbon ring around the flash hole, but I have never had the flash hole even come close to filling up.