bolt action 30-30?

[R.W.Dale]

Well the swede conversion to 30/30 does work . If you had a problem with feeding then it was your rifles problem .Some where some one should be able to sort that out for you . You might not like the weight , but then these guns are old.

I would pay good money to see an Ljungman AG42 converted to 30-30 that fired more than one shot. Where have you seen such a conversion. Have you actually seen one? Or is this a buddy's cousin's brother had one type thing.

BTW Some of the earlier SWISS Schmidt Rubins were converted to 30wcf. You think this may be what you're referring to?

I still want to know how you ream the chamber from the much larger 6.5x55 to the much smaller 30-30 case

[R.W.Dale]

  Sorry, but the fact that the 7.62 Russian in standard factory load is 100 fps faster than a .30-30 doesn't mean anything in the real world of hunting.  What does mean something is the legendary effectiveness of the .30-30 with a 170 grain Remington Core-Lokt or Winchester Silver Tip bullet.   The Russian, with its 129 grain bullet, just can't compare.  So what if it shoots somewhat flatter?  Who cares?  The .30-30 is plenty flat enough for its maximum 200 yard range.  Just sight it in to be 4 inches high at 100 yards.

  The .30-30 with its 170 grain factory load will cleanly put an Elk down at 125 yards.  Shoot an Elk with a 129 grain Russian soft-point at 125 yards, and see what happens.  A wounded running Elk.

  Just my opinions.

 Regards,
 Mannyrock

OK first off who said anything about factory loadings......I didn't. YOU did

Yes the x39 can compare....how you ask? Because I shoot the same weight 30-30 bullets you mention in my AR15 that's how. My 20" ar launches 170grainers at 2K FPS, that's only 100fps slower than the same bullet from my Winchester only the ar is one heck of a lot more accurate and doesn't have a deathtrap safety.

The .30-30 with its 170 grain factory load will cleanly put an Elk down at 125 yards.

Then so will x39 if launching the same bullet at the same or higher velocity, I assure you critters don't care about headstamps. The last box of Remington 170grn ammo I chronied from the aforementioned 30-30 savage was averaging out to well under 1900fps factory 30-30 isn't exactly the gold standard of performance you guys like to believe

The .30-30 is plenty flat enough for its maximum 200 yard range.  Just sight it in to be 4 inches high at 100 yards.

LOL
I've killed deer out beyond 270yds with a x39 so don't try to tell me it can't do the same as 30-30, Thanks for making my point

[hunt-m-up]

Hornady 30-30 Win 160 gr FTX LEVERevolution 

Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle           100 yd       200 yd       300 yd       
2400/2046   2150/1643  1916/1304  1699/1025   
 
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd
-1.7      3.0       0.2    -12.1   

This ammo off the shelf will do it too
 

[R.W.Dale]

Hornady 30-30 Win 160 gr FTX LEVERevolution 

Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle           100 yd       200 yd       300 yd       
2400/2046   2150/1643  1916/1304  1699/1025   
 
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd
-1.7      3.0       0.2    -12.1   

This ammo off the shelf will do it too
 

you can't believe everything marketers tell you in gun magazines advertisements

Hornady 160grn evolution
manufacturer claims 2400fps
actual velocity recorded from a 20" bbl 2287

actual trajectory tests from a 20" bbl
0 at 100yds
-7 at 200yds
-23" at 300yds

more here
http://www.realguns.com/archives/120.htm

and I'll guarantee ya that when fired from a pokey savage 340bbl you can subtract another 100fps from the realguns figures
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,174626.0.html
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,122211.0.html

The Hornady ammo may indeed be good stuff but it's not a magic pill that'll turn your 30-30 into a 300savage, Really in my opinion it doesn't allow the 30-30 to do anything it wasn't completely capable of doing before. Sorta like a placebo that just makes 30-30 shooters more confident in taking shots they could have taken before if they'd taken the time to practice past 100yds and learn the cartridges trajectory.

[hunt-m-up]

Just like you can't expect too much from a round that was designed as a communist people killer.
Those figures would be from Hornady's website,not sure of test rifle or any other specs, probably longer barrel, but I think they've loaded enough ammo to get an idea of what they're doing by now. Regardless of the "real" figures, there will still be enough there to put a deer down at 250 with the LE 30-30 ammo.

I understand you can make them do anything you want them to do by handloading, but the 7.62X39 doesn't have anything over the 30-30 and will never account for as many whitetails or black bear as the 30-30 has.

[mannyrock]

  Well geez Krochus?  By engaging in custom, time consuming hand-loading, you an jury rig your 7.62 Russian so that it is substantially equivalent to a box of factory loaded .30-30s. :-)   So what's your point!  This doesn't make the 7.62 Russian a great round.  It makes it a poor round, that requires handloading to be on the same plain in the hunting arena as the .30-30.  You can soup-up a 6.5 mm Carcano by handloading it too.  Does that make it a great hunting round?

   The 7.62 Russian is a superb, intermediate range, assault rifle round.  That's all it is.

Regards,

Mannyrock

 

[R.W.Dale]

Yeah cause nobody on this site handloads huntin ammo. We all just buy whatever "bullets" are on sale at Kmart to hunt with. Go kill deer with a 3030 past 250 Yds with non "souped up" factory or handloaded ammo and get back to me.

All loads mentioned are within published data for both rounds so much for souping up.

You can soup-up a 6.5 mm Carcano by handloading it too.  Does that make it a great hunting round?

in a word YES provided you had a great hunting rifle so chambered

 since the new fanged 6.5 grendel and 6.8spc pretty much duplicates 6.5x50jap or 6.5 carcano ballistics, Both rounds designed to bring the AR platform to another level of hunting suitability and downrange ballistic performance.......

All of which blow 30-30 completely out of the water in terms of ballistics  BTW

I honestly don't know why you think critters care about what's headstamped on your brass. Because I assure you they don't and never will. Put a sufficiently heavy bullet that's matched to the impact velocity in the boiler room and you have a dead critter. PERIOD Cartridge history or origin have absolutely no bearing on this

The 7.62 Russian is a superb, intermediate range, assault rifle round.  That's all it is.

and the 30-30 filled the exact same role only amongst sportsman since the day it was introduced in the 1890's. It was a mid powered low pressure cartridge designed to function in a specific platform for intermediate range. That's all it is. That's all it was. And that's all it'll ever be

Remember when the 30-30 was introduced there was already plethora of cartridges available that equal some and in some cases surpass many of the most popular high velocity rifle rounds we use today

[anweis]

You can soup-up a 6.5 mm Carcano by handloading it too. 
 

Actually, i have seen the 6.5 Carcano used on several large game and it is a very good performer. It penetrates and kills well without much fuss or recoil or bullet failure or meat damage. It just works.

[anweis]

In all honesty the absolute best bolt action 30-30 made to date is the little CZ527 carbine in 7.62x39

Well, you actually answered my question. Here is where i am now:
The Savage 340 is a very good hunting rifle, but it's not what i would call a high quality rifle that i would leave behind to my kid. It's un inexpensive clunker.
The Remington 788 is a quality gun, not very cheap, and replacement stocks in nice wood are hard to come by, replacement triggers and safeties are not cheap, and by the time i am done "making it nice" it will be expensive, and still remain a Remington 788.
The CZ 527 is cute, but i have three issues with it: the protruding magazine is fuggly, the stock is shapped for shooting with open sights and i am not sure that it would give a good cheek position when shooting with a rifle scope,  and the 7.62x39 is at the loooow end of what i would consider to be a large game cartridge. Again, to fix these issues would cost money.

So, i will get a Winchester 70 from the custom shop, chambered in 30-06. It's got nice wood, nice trigger, nice everything. I will put a nice scope on it. I will make cartridges with 150 grain bullets and lower velocity. That should keep the recoil low and still offer excellent performance. It would be a nice rifle to pass on and a cartridge that could be loaded up or down as needed.

[Happy]

Well the swede conversion to 30/30 does work . If you had a problem with feeding then it was your rifles problem .Some where some one should be able to sort that out for you . You might not like the weight , but then these guns are old.

I would pay good money to see an Ljungman AG42 converted to 30-30 that fired more than one shot. Where have you seen such a conversion. Have you actually seen one? Or is this a buddy's cousin's brother had one type thing.

BTW Some of the earlier SWISS Schmidt Rubins were converted to 30wcf. You think this may be what you're referring to?
 

Yes it was the Schmidt Rubin I was refering too .I was not thinking of the Ljungman  which never came up and also never refered to rechambering a 6.5 barrel to thirty thirty. I seem to have you filling in the blanks and running the rad too hot

I said The bolt face for the 6.5 would not need to be reworked because they are about the same . So What I am saying is that they use the same shell holder . So good day sir . I do not need to get into a battle over this.  Bye!!!

I still want to know how you ream the chamber from the much larger 6.5x55 to the much smaller 30-30 case

  Change the barrel

[R.W.Dale]

In all honesty the absolute best bolt action 30-30 made to date is the little CZ527 carbine in 7.62x39

Well, you actually answered my question. Here is where i am now:
The Savage 340 is a very good hunting rifle, but it's not what i would call a high quality rifle that i would leave behind to my kid. It's un inexpensive clunker.
The Remington 788 is a quality gun, not very cheap, and replacement stocks in nice wood are hard to come by, replacement triggers and safeties are not cheap, and by the time i am done "making it nice" it will be expensive, and still remain a Remington 788.
The CZ 527 is cute, but i have three issues with it: the protruding magazine is fuggly, the stock is shapped for shooting with open sights and i am not sure that it would give a good cheek position when shooting with a rifle scope,  and the 7.62x39 is at the loooow end of what i would consider to be a large game cartridge. Again, to fix these issues would cost money.

So, i will get a Winchester 70 from the custom shop, chambered in 30-06. It's got nice wood, nice trigger, nice everything. I will put a nice scope on it. I will make cartridges with 150 grain bullets and lower velocity. That should keep the recoil low and still offer excellent performance. It would be a nice rifle to pass on and a cartridge that could be loaded up or down as needed.

sounds like a plan. however if your recoil concerned I urge you to take  a good look at 7mm-08, 6.5x55, 260rem and 7x57mauser. Cartridges that are mild recoiling without downloading yet give up virtually nothing in game killing ability

[R.W.Dale]

Now Hoppy that's not what you said earlier

The model 96 and 38 Swede 6.5x 55  could be bored out and rereamed  to take the 30/30 you would not need to do anything to the bolt face. Then too you might find an older swede auto converted to 30/30.

Older swede auto = AG42 or AG42b or HKg3 and nothing else. So what semiauto are you referring to?

Boring out and rereaming certianlly isn't something you do to a new bbl is it not

[anweis]

take  a good look at 7mm-08, 6.5x55, 260rem and 7x57mauser. Cartridges that are mild recoiling without downloading yet give up virtually nothing in game killing ability

Here is what i had in mind. For a budget of $1000-$1500 it seems the nicest rifle i can get, but they don't make them in those excellent calibers (i blame the magnum mania for that).
http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=535&type_id=107&cat=001C

[Happy]

Now Hoppy that's not what you said earlier

The model 96 and 38 Swede 6.5x 55  could be bored out and rereamed  to take the 30/30 you would not need to do anything to the bolt face. Then too you might find an older swede auto converted to 30/30.

Older swede auto = AG42 or AG42b or HKg3 and nothing else. So what semiauto are you referring to?

Boring out and rereaming certianlly isn't something you do to a new bbl is it not

Well if you wanted a thirty thirty as far as I know you would need to buy a blank barrel But you seem to be the expert KRO.

[R.W.Dale]

you can buy a nice ruger no1 or higher grade m77rsi, rem 700 or even a cz550 that's every bit as nice as the Winchester for much less and have a much wider cartridge selection.

You could also have a .223 ruger No1 sent off to oregon gunsmithing and have it rebored and rechambered to 30-30 for a classy and custom heirloom


There also may be a number of really sharp professionally built custom mausers on Gunbroker which in this market can be excellent buys

[Happy]

So getting back to the  bolt action 30/30 post .

If it is a 30/30 we want it is up to the rem788 , Savage 340 or the Handi .These could be dressed up with new stocks etc to dress them up abit , other wise we looking in some money.
Other wise there might be other calipiers in other  rifles, which would suit for less money.

[anweis]

nice ruger no1 or higher grade m77rsi, rem 700 or even a cz550 that's every bit as nice as the Winchester for much less and have a much wider cartridge selection.

You could also have a .223 ruger No1 rebored and rechambered to 30-30

Hm! A CZ 550 Full Stock in 6.5x55 scoped with a Leupy VX3 1.5-5x20 in QD rings? That should kill critters with style and fit a young lady. But the Ruger no 1 also seems nice, with many caliber choices.

[Happy]

Started my wife with my 6.5x55 bolt . She learned to shoot this gun very well, and shot deer with it too. A 7MM o8 would probably be a good choice , as mild reciol  builds confidence . this now opens many doors as to what rifle.

My wife now hunts with a 3006 Ruger and has shot many moose with this rifle . Now just as home with my 300 Wm . Shoots it better than I ever could .

Just let her pick her rifle for best fit .
Good luck

[mannyrock]

Anweis,

   Wow.  You sure came full circle on this one.  Starting out in the .30-30, and moving up to the .30-06?

   And now you're thinking about paying $1,500 for one of the new Winchester Model 70s??

   OK, now I'm with Krochus on this.  The three rifles he mentioned would be a much better choice,  and less expensive.

   And, if you're really dead set on spending $1,500.00, then why not go out and buy an ORIGINAL pre-64 Winchester Model 70.  You could get a very nice one in .30-06 or .308 Winchester.   Even if you had to pay $150 or so to refinish the stock, you would be way ahead of the game.   Then, your son would really have something classy!   Whose making the new Model 70s this week anyway?  FN?  In a few years, they too will quit, and no one will remember or care.  The original pre-64s will always be the gold standard.

Best,

Mannyrock

[yooper77]

If you don't like the Encore or Ruger #1, then I would suggest the 97D, but not the 30-30 Winchester.  I would suggest the 30-40 Krag.  Still a rimmed case but allot more velocity than the 30-30 Winchester and still .308 caliber bullets and not .311 or .312 caliber for the 303 British.

yooper77

[Tallwalker]

It might pay to keep your eye out for a nice Winchester 54 in 30-30. I passed on one of those years ago when money was tight, and have been sorry ever since.

[MGMorden]

It might pay to keep your eye out for a nice Winchester 54 in 30-30. I passed on one of those years ago when money was tight, and have been sorry ever since.

There's actually one up on Gunbroker right now:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133782156

A bit pricey (you could get a Remington 788 for less, which even as a Savage 340 owner I'd consider the best bolt .30-30 you can get), but still less than the $1500 the original poster wanted to spend.  If you really wanted you could pay a few $$$ to have a new stock put on it (plenty of manufacturers cut for a variety of actions) and have it reblued if it suits you.   

[Zachary]

I have been following these posts with much curiosity.  You know, it's kinda funny.....when I first read the topic (bolt action 30-30), I asked myself..why? Then, I have to admit that I remembered that I myself in the past have wondered if there were any rifles (not necessarily bolt-action, but just rifles in general) in .480 Ruger, .454 Casull, 500 S&W, etc.  In reading all of these threads, it reminded me that we all have special wants and desires, and there is nothing wrong with wanting a .30-30 in a bolt-action rifle, just like there is nothing wrong with having a .480 Ruger, etc. in a bolt-action rifle.  In fact, it's actually kinda cool to have such a hobby and interest.

Zachary

[mannyrock]

Zach,

   One of the appeals of a bolt action .30-30 is accuracy.  Due to the fact that the vast majority of .30-30 rifles are old lever actions, most people have the impression that the .30-30 is basically a 3 inch MOA cartrige. 

   However, the .30-30 round is inherently very accurate, and in a bolt action, this really shows up.  Even in inexpensive bolts, 1.5 inch to 1.0 inch groups with factory ammo are not uncommon.

    Plus, it is a mild cartridge that is very pleasant to shoot.  Low recoil, little muzzle blast, and relatively cheap factory ammo. It is great in a bolt.

Regards,

Mannyrock

[anweis]

Zach,

   One of the appeals of a bolt action .30-30 is accuracy.  Due to the fact that the vast majority of .30-30 rifles are old lever actions, most people have the impression that the .30-30 is basically a 3 inch MOA cartrige. 

   However, the .30-30 round is inherently very accurate, and in a bolt action, this really shows up.  Even in inexpensive bolts, 1.5 inch to 1.0 inch groups with factory ammo are not uncommon.

    Plus, it is a mild cartridge that is very pleasant to shoot.  Low recoil, little muzzle blast, and relatively cheap factory ammo. It is great in a bolt.

Regards,

Mannyrock

All that, plus endless barrel life and plenty of factory ammo or reloading components to choose from. 

[mannyrock]

  Now, if only CZ would make their little bolt action carbine in .30-30!  They would sell a ton of them!

  But, I guess that there is a mechanical reason why they can't, since the .30-30 is rimmed.

[ftlupton]

Sold my 340, 30-30 but anyone who says they can't shoot is way to fussy. I glass bedded this one, stoned a little on the trigger, that's it.
I'm having trouble with old eyes and the scope was just a Nikon 2 X 7. Maybe not the best but any mulie out to 200 yds is easy.

[R.W.Dale]

ftlupton not to take away from your pride in your rifle but your target perfectly illustrates my problems with both my 340's shifty POI and general lack of accuracy

Taking a 5 shot group picking the closest 3 holes and disreguarding 2 well apart does not make for a great shooting rifle.










even my ancient 100% stock winchester with iron sights does better than that at 50yds

[billy_56081]

My stevens 325 will shoot 130 horady SSP bullets into .75 3 shot groups if I do my part. Every load I tried with it will do 1.5" or better at 100 yards. Target rifle, no, well within the realm of a hunting rifle yes. Anyone trying to make a 3030 into a target round needs to study what makes a good target round. A long powder columb and small shoulder will not be found on a winning bench rest cartridge. People need to quit making a 3030 into something it is not, a magnum, or target round and use it as intended as a wonderful short to medium range hunting cartridge.

[Tallwalker]

Actually, if we look at the loads in the newest Hornady loading manual we see that a light .308 can make a very nice bolt action 30-30 with very little, or no extra powder. The only catch is that the brass is much stronger, and needs about 24,000 psi to expand to properly seal the bore. I have an Ultra Light Ruger that I use that way. I got tired of carrying 30-30 lever guns that weighed over a pound more but have always been satisfied with the results I could get on deer with the 30-30. I got lucky with mine, and have two loads that shoot to the right point of impact for different ranges. For  normal woods hunting I use a 170 FP at about 2300-2400 fps, and I carry a couple of 165 spitzers that are on at 200yds for the occassional stand along a power line, etc. Mild on the ears, and shoulder, and very effective indeed.