Author Topic: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa  (Read 28885 times)

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Offline JJHACK

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Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« on: June 24, 2009, 10:52:54 AM »
Hi folks, as promised here are some observations and opinions about the performance of the Barnes TSX bullets this year. There were 52 animals shot with the TSX and a nearly equal amount of game taken with several other brands. This is the first year that every hunter in camp came with “Premium” bullets. Not a single hunter used a common “cup and core” style bullet. I hope that my rants on this subject have finally paid off regarding the advantage of the additional cost for premium bullets.

Since this is article is primarily for the TSX bullet, I will describe the events for those and use the other brands as a balance of performance. To attempt to create a document with the detail needed for each brand,….. well it would take a long time, and a lot of space here. Furthermore there was far more detail and resolution with the TSX as more game was harvested with the TSX then all the other bullet brands combined.

The best news of all is that there was not even one animal lost with the TSX bullet this season. Considering all the game shot with the TSX, both 165 grain in 30/06 and 270 grain in 375HH this is an impressive achievement. There was game wounded with several different bullets that took some time to recover, and required follow up shooting. This was as far as I could tell more likely due to shot placement and not with the projectile. As is the case every year, no matter what the skill level of the hunters, or the cartridges chosen, game will be shot poorly and we will have tracking and follow up days during each safari. There are just so many animals shot, and so many brushy and quick situations. This often creates less then perfect shots, it’s just the way things seem to happen.

We recovered only 7, 30/06 TSX bullets, and we recovered no 270 grain bullets from the 375HH. The 270 grain TSX seems to open quicker and with more violence then the smaller 30/06 bullets. That 270 grain bullet chews a hole through bone and tissue like few other bullets can. The damage path with that 270 grain bullet with a MV of 2800 fps is one of the most impressive I’ve ever seen, quite a bit more disruptive then even the 300 grain TSX has been. The typical 300-350 fps faster speed of the 270grain is a significant improvement on the terminal performance. The 270 grain in my opinion is enough bullet for anything alive on this planet. I have said many times before and will confirm this again, it’s enough for Cape buffalo. The penetration of this bullet in my experience is equal or greater then any 300 grain expanding bullet with a lead core. It takes a lot of tissue compression or an exceptional range to collect one of these bullets inside game.

We recovered well over a dozen bullets, or parts of bullets from all the other cartridges used. The skinner used for many of these hunts had very strict instructions to recover every bullet and fragment he could from the game. It’s my first experience this year with so many fragmented pieces of  the Nosler Partition. I would never have believed that so many little pieces could be found by the skinner. Nobody with any amount of experience argues the performance of the partition being somewhat of a baseline for bullet performance. Better then the Partition is all good, but worse performance is a problem that needs strict attention.

We recovered a number of jacket pieces and lead segments from several different animals shot with the Partition. This shows that even the legendary Partition will go to pieces when shot with high velocity cartridges and close range at heavy game. I have seen Partitions come apart before but this year was more then normal. The up side was that nothing was lost with a Partition. Although there was a few very long grueling follow ups looking for wounded animals. (shot placement was a strong contributor on some of these)

If my count is right 31 animals were shot with my 30/06 using the 165 grain partitions, and another 6 were shot with the same cartridge and nearly identical loads by other hunters. 37 animals this year were shot with the 165 grain 30/06 bullet.  Some notable trophies were 2 huge waterbuck, 7 Blue Wildebeest, 4 Zebra’s, 4 Gemsbok, 6 warthogs, and 4 Kudu. 7 recovered bullets, the rest simply passed right through.



The first and third bullets are from 300 meter plus shots on Zebra and wildebeest. The second bullet is from a length wise shot at a warthog from only 30 meters. The fourth bullet is from the 175 meter shot I made on the Zebra. Note the length of this bullet from a Zebra shot at 180 meters compared to the bullet used on a similiar shot on a Zebra at just over 300 meters. The reduced velocity of that longer shot still allowed a complete expansion of the bullet.


Remaining fragments from two different Partition bullets, the small lead pieces I collected seem to have vanished on my way home?  The other two partition bullets have the typical recovered appearance. Nothing wrong with this so long as penetration is sufficient. They will as a normal design lose the front half of the bullet during penetration, this is not a bullet or design failure.

I shot a zebra at about 175 yards, a rather long shot for our habitat, but it was all I had available. The bullet struck a quartering away direction and came to rest under the skin in front of the off shoulder. The entry was behind the last rib. This bullet was about one foot per second from being an exit hole. The skin in front of the bullet was cut in three places about 1/8” for each hole. Had that bullet been any faster it would have poked clean through. The hole was actually bleeding and looked like and exit hole. It was visually  bulging with the bullet just under the skin. The same bullet and load passed through several wildebeest, and other Zebras as well. One was recovered under the skin of the chest on an impala with a perfectly centered “Texas heart shot” Another from a Blesbok’s shoulder with a very far 300 yard plus quartering away shot. That was well over 30” of penetration at a laser measured 300 plus yards! I have seen countless Zebra, eland, and wildebeest in my career shot with a 375HH and a bonded core bullet. A large percentage of these animals have managed to contain the large mushroomed bullet under the skin on the exit side. Yet the 30/06 with much less energy has exited or at least equaled the penetration when the 165grain TSX bullet is used.


This is the exit side of a warthog, the blood trail would have been sufficient although in this case not needed. The warthog only ran about 50 meters.


Accuracy is unmatched with proper load development and ammunition construction techniques. This is where many of the critics come out of the woodwork where problems arise. This is not your Daddies bullet, and as such does not always work with the same procedures you have used for load development with other bullets. I’m not going into how to develop and load ammo here, just want to say that it may take some time to sort through the best combinations of powder, primer and seating depths. When it all comes together the accuracy and performance are just magic on big game.

I closely inspected every carcass shot when the skinning was complete and meat was hanging in the cool room. In every single case when a chest shot was made through the ribs, the entry was easily identified when compared to the exit. The exits were on average 4 times the size of the entries. This confirms without any question the bullets expand even when the exit holes in the hide don’t look as if they had expansion. The photo here of the warthog is a typical example of the exit hole and the blood loss.

On a few occasions there were petals broken off of the recovered bullets. Twice there was a single petal broken off, and on one rather close shot all four were broken off with the bullet entering the back of the warthog near the tail and coming to rest inside the skull. This was about a 30 yard shot on a medium female warthog used to feed the staff. The bullet actually entered with only a small partial hole right next to the wagging tail! I made this shot in a deliberate attempt to see just how far the bullet would go, or if it would still have enough power to break the skull. In addition I wanted to see just how straight it would travel through the inconsistent tissues involved through its damage path. The heavy bones of the pelvis, organs, muscle tissue and skull might cause a variance in straight bullet travel. However there was no bullet deflection at all in this test . The travel was as straight as a ruler could have made it. Overall I cannot find fault with the TSX in anyway again this year. I shot several 130 grain TTSX bullets at impala, none recovered and the internal damage was significant. Actually the same as the plain old TSX.

I don’t see a measurable difference in the performance between the two. I suppose if you’re of the mind that the plastic tip will improve the ease of the bullet opening and provide you with a flatter shooting projectile, the TTSX is made for you. I don’t see any need to change a single thing from the 165grain TSX bullet at about 2900fps from the 30/06. Several of the hunters and I joked that so many guys bring huge case capacity magnums, and then spend time looking for wounded game. I cannot stress enough that not a single plains game animal was lost with the 30/06 and the 165 grain TSX bullets again this year. There were however a number of wounded animals with magnum cartridges. One second time plains game hunter commented that his next safari will be with one of his 30/06 rifles. He used my 30/06 to finish his safari after a problem with his 338 came up.

 It’s no wonder the locals throughout much of Southern Africa regardless of the country feel so comfortable with the smaller 308, 30/06, and 270 cartridges. Once the decision is made to jump from these cartridges they move right up to the 375HH, and from there the 458. Those local Southern African hunters regardless of the country don’t really buy into the hype and need for the over bore magnums. Now with the improved bullets available like the TSX they can have an easy to shoot, economical cartridge that will easily out perform the bigger magnums using a cup and core bullet. There is no doubt that a 30/06 shooting a 165 grain TSX bullet at 2900fps will easily provide more over all lethal performance than a 300 win mag shooting a 180 grain cup and core bullet at 3100fps. I’ve seen this plenty of times where the TSX from the old non-magnum will exit while the heavier cup and core bullet will fragment into many small pieces and have no exit hole, and quite often under penetrate.

As I have written before, and a fitting close to this article. Any bullet can have a failure depending upon the definition of “failure”. For my money and with the experiences I have had since using this bullet. I would prefer a bullet fail to an un-opened solid, or lose all the petals, then to have the whole bullet crumble away or fall short of desired penetration needed. Even if the bullet fails to an unopened solid, or has all the petals break off. If the aim was true to begin with, then the bullet will impact the organs you were aiming at and destroy them. Many times a hunter will criticize the performance of the bullet or at least be left wondering how the bullet could have failed him when the game is lost. I suspect that most of these animals were not hit well, rather then having a bullet failure. We have seen a number of cup and core bullets, fall short of the penetration needed. Having that thick very elastic hide so typical of many African animals absorb much of the impact. Which then causes the rapid destruction of the bullet, while it continues to disintegrate in the next few inches falling short of the off side lung. An animal pouring blood from the entry inspires confidence at the point of impact. However after several hundred yards of tracking the hunter asks how can this be? How can that much blood be seen and the animals travel so far?  A herd animal with one good lung can run dead on its feet for a very long time trying to stay with the group.

With a bullet that crumbles or falls short of the desired organs, you will be tracking and hoping for many hours and kilometers that you find the game. This makes for long evening around the campfire while everyone else is laughing and enjoying the hunt stories, and you sit stressed out and wondering just how much of your trophy will be left from the hyenas and jackals. That is if you’re lucky enough to even find it in the morning!

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Offline FW Conch

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 05:41:38 AM »
 :)  JJ , I can't thank you enough for your post on this subject !   I am a lifelong 30/06 fan & I have dreamed of hunting Africa since the 70's.  One of your "Countryman" is married to my fishing buddy & lives 2 blocks down the street from me.  He says he's going to get me over there before we're done.  If it ever happens,  I know what bullet I'm going to use !  ;D  Keep that good information comming     Jim
Jim

Offline anweis

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 06:18:40 AM »
I wonder what the 80 grain 6mm tipped TSX at 2800 fps would do to medium sized white-tailed deer?

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2009, 10:21:07 AM »
I wonder what the 80 grain 6mm tipped TSX at 2800 fps would do to medium sized white-tailed deer?

Prolly make it quite dead if applied in the proper location. That's pretty slow from a 6mm what ya shooting it thru a 6 TCU?


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Offline anweis

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2009, 05:09:07 AM »
It's for a 6mm Rem. I load them light for my kid. It also increases barrel life.   

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2009, 04:48:29 PM »
Outstanding report. Yes, we could use a 223, 30-06 & 375H&H for everything, but it is a dreadful thought.  ;)
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2009, 07:52:55 AM »
JJ -

I've read a lot of your posts on another "24 hour" site and always welcome them as they are always very informative, well written and easy to read.

The report on the TSX is verry wwelcome, although I'm switching from TSX to TTSX and MRX wherever I can.  Just as I believe the TSX were a good step up in expansion reiability from the older X bullets, I think the TTSX and MRX are a worthwhile step up from the TSX.  That said, I have only three kills with the X (two coyotes and an antelope), no shots on game with the TSX (not for lack of trying) and one kill (antelope again) with the TTSX.  In other words, I'm going off what others have reported and basic design concepts as much or more than my own experience, which is pretty limited.

Keep the reports coming.  I'll be using the TTSX this fall for deer and elk and possibly antelope (looking less and less likely, but who knows) and hope to up the peresonal experience side of things.
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Offline Skunk

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2009, 08:11:13 AM »
Indeed, an excellent report. Also really enjoyed your Hunting article, ".338-06 or 35 Whelen, Which Is Best?," on your website.
Mike

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Offline Zachary

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2009, 02:33:46 PM »
Throughout the past years, I recall reading similar reports in the Africa Hunting forums from him.....also very comprehensive and informative.  Thank you very much for taking the time and sharing.

Zachary

Offline Savage_99

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2009, 06:19:20 PM »
Another writer reports that his observations on 150 animals taken with monometal bullets that those animals go further than if they were hit with lead cored bullets.

Also that at least six of the monometal bullets failed to expand at all.


Offline Arizona Jake

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2009, 05:08:12 AM »
Thank you very much for the article, JJ.

That Barnes makes outstanding bullets is without question. I used the original X bullers back in 1998 and 2000 to take 14 animals in South Africa and only recovered 2 bullets. One was from a black wildebeest I shot head-on at 250 meters with my .338 Win Mag. The 210 gr. XBT hit the brisket and lodged under the hide in the hip, after traveling through at least 3 feet of wildebeest, including the spine. The heart was turned into mush and the spine into a sort of gravel as the bullet went through.

The other recovered bullet was a .375 270 gr. XBT from a blue or brindled wildebeest. The first shot broke the spine and paralysed the poor critter, so we got close and I shot him again from 3 feet away. The bullet from the second shot was found on the hide on the far side of the shot. After reconstructing the incident, we determined that the wildebest was lying on its side on a flat rock, and that the bullet actually ricocheted back after hitting the hide against the rock. There was a big bruise on the hide where the bullet tried to punch through.

Now, here is the problem I've had with Barnes bullets: Barnes has probably never heard the term "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". They discontinued the XBT bullets, replacing them with the coated XCL's, then went to the TSX line.

I don't know about you, but it takes most of us considerable time developing a good load we can trust to hit point of aim time after time, andit gets to be a frustrating experience having to develop loads over and over again. 2 of my friends and I have since quit using Barnes bullets and I am perfectly happy using Hornady InterBonds and Nosler AccuBonds. I know there will be no surprises with discontinuations and design changes.

Regards,
Joaquin B.:cb2:

Offline JJHACK

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2009, 05:12:52 AM »
I've had all the same issues with changes over the years as well. I've also never been too pleased to have loaded a lot of ammo, only to find they are not making the exact bullet anylonger.

So that is a known issue with the evolution of the product. But.... lets also look at the developement of the competitions bullets, namely the Winchester versions, and now Hornady and Nosler. Seems that even though Barnes was way ahead of the curve, decades ahead of the curve, there are major manufacturers now lining up to provide the same or near identical products.

I have used a number of bullets in my life, heck I've been in this hunting business since I was in my early 20's so there have been a lot of handgun, rifle and archery projectiles launched at a whole lot of big game around the world. based on what I have used now, and what I have seen perform on game, if I had to pick only one bullet it would be the TSX as I sit and type this right now.

There are better specific projectiles for some applications. Obviousley predator hunting requires an explosive bullet, and thick skinned extra large game should use a solid. The majority of americans are hunting deer which are one of the least difficult to stop or crumple big game of the world. Deer do not not have the will to live or travel anywhere near as far after a shot as some other similiar sized big game.

So for a simple/local deer hunting trip using a cup and core bullet might be just fine. The bonded core and monolithic bullets make a lot of sense on the shot of a lifetime for serious big game and international hunting trips. With a TSX you can take the shot at any angle given. You don't need to wait on a classic broadside shot.  It makes a 30/06 perform better then a 300 mag with a cup and core bullet. ( there is no doubt about this, I've seen this example more then any other)

Also the big state on the left coast is on the verge of making hunting with lead bullets illegal. This is coming soon I fear. Enforcement is gonna be complicated but they are headed this direction. What is the future of lead core hunting bullets? I don't know, but the major manufacturers are all getting on board with the monometal designs now.
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Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2009, 12:07:55 PM »
Having followed J.J. writing on the Barnes bullets I decided to take the plunge and do some load development for my 270’s.  The bite comes with the price of the Barnes bullets; I bought the 130-grain TTSX bullets.  They cost about sixty-six percent more than the cup and core bullets I normally load. 

The amazing thing is that every test load I tried was accurate.  I decided that .5-grains from the published maximum fit my needs.  I had a lot of shooting to do that day so I did not set up the Chrony.  That will come in time.

A very positive factor was the point of impact with the 130-grain Barnes TTSX using IMR4350 is the point of impact is the same as my selected 140-grain WW Silvertip (0ld style) using WMR powder.  If I decided to use the 130-grain Barnes I will not need to make any scope adjustments.

I share Arizona Jake’s sentiments regarding the cost of load development because of changing design.  The old retirement check does not have much adjustment in it.  I was fortunate to have some IMR4350 on hand for load development because I have not seen it on the shelve for some time.  The breadth of powder selections for the Barnes bullets is rather narrow.   If I wanted to spend the money for bullets I am sure I could work up some loads using H4831.


Sharing those concerns regarding bullet development and cost of load development I plan on picking up another box of the 130-grain TTSX bullets just to have them in reserve. 

I happen to like Hornady bullets for deer hunting, and I have heard the talk, and read the advertisements but I have not seen the Hornady unleaded bullet on the dealers shelve.

If unleaded bullets become mandated I need to consider my options.  One is to become a camper, camp cook, bottle washer, and driver.  The wildlife folks can finance their program from the general fund.  At my age taking game is not as important as it has been in the past.  But I have travelled out of state in the past to hunt, and I am willing to do it again.  I have a life time supply of cup and core bullets suitable for deer, elk, antelope, and black bear.  My pleasure might be in reducing the number of tags I buy in a season.

I have already demonstrated my resolve is weak, by developing loads for the Barnes bullet.  The bottom line it proved to be accurate, and cleaning the fouling out of the bore was not difficult.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/270WinchesterWeb.pdf
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Offline Arizona Jake

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2009, 04:48:57 AM »
How ironic can life get?

After I was complaining about Barnes Bullets changing their designs, I received word that I got drawn to hunt the North Kaibab area here in Arizona. 2 weeks later, when I received my deer tag in the mail, there was also a notice stating that, because condors live and breed in the area, AZ Game & Fish is asking hunters lucky enough to hunt there to voluntarily use non-lead bullets.

Included with my tag was a certificate for 1 free box of non-leaded ammo or 1 free box of 50 Barnes TSX bullets.  :-[

Well, what the hell... I ordered the Barnes .30 caliber, 150 gr. TSX bullets, since they were a gift from AZ Game & Fish. I plan to develop a load for my 30-06 using Varget powder. If I can develop a good load, I'll order another 100 bullets, to have enough so when they again change the design, I won't get caught flat-footed.   Jeez! 
Joaquin B.:cb2:

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 06:39:44 AM »
Arizona Jake:  Congratulations on your tag, and box of bullets.  I stopped to pick up a spare box of the 130-TSX bullets and they were out of stock.  Gives me an excuse to check every once and while to see if they are in stock.  Not finding them does not create a problem but it points out that once that magic load is developed stock piling the ingredients is wise.
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Offline CGPAUL

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2009, 06:53:12 AM »
Interesting comment/experience on the Barnes bullets. We are just back from the Eastern Cape where we had a management hunt for springbok, wildebest, blesbok, mountain reed, and my son took a nice gemsbok outside the package. With the exeption of one springbok, and one wildebest, sll other snimals were shot with my 8x57 using Sierra 175 grn Pro hunter bullets.
My son and I were quized by the PH on the 3.5 hour road trip from PE to our hunt site on what cartridge and bullets we were shooting, and what experience we had with both. I`m sure he wanted to get a better picture of us as shooters and hunters. As it turned out, all animals, with the exception of the gemsbok, were killed with one shot.
Over supper one nite, conversation turned to the question of bullets. Our PH expressed, that in his experience, 20% of his hunters showing up with Barnes bullets caused 80% of his wounded game. The exception in his experience, was hunters that were experienced shooters didn`t have that problem with the copper bullet, because they placed the shot precisly. So, are some of our hunters thinking technoligy replaces bullet placement??
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Offline lucky guy

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2009, 09:53:09 AM »
Great post, thanks!

You mentioned reloading accuracy factors.  I went back to 165gr partitions shortly before elk season this year because I couldn't get the tipped 168 tsx's to shoot out of my 308.  This rifle puts 175 matchkings under half an inch reliably, and partitions in 165 and 180 under moa with a variety of loads. 

Any suggestions on what I should try to increase the tsx or ttsx accuracy? 


Offline jro45

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2010, 01:55:30 AM »
How much copper does Barns bullets Put in your barrel. Thats the reason I don't  Shoot Barnes bullets. I clean my rifle each time I shoot it. The one time I shot barnes bullets
It took me a half a day to get all the copper out of my rifle.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2010, 03:31:11 PM »
How much copper does Barns bullets Put in your barrel. Thats the reason I don't  Shoot Barnes bullets. I clean my rifle each time I shoot it. The one time I shot barnes bullets
It took me a half a day to get all the copper out of my rifle.

Were they TSX or the original X ?    There is no comparison in the diff. in fouling.
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Offline nasem

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2011, 11:20:56 AM »
Question:
The big advantage of today's technology on bullets is that they don't break-apart upon impact.

So take for example those Tipped TSX's or the normal TSX, would it be a wise idea to take one of the lighter bullets (like 110-130 grains) and drive them to max speeds on a 30-06 and still have them be effective for large game?  I mean the bullet ain't gonna fall apart, even if you drive them 3300-3500 fps

Offline Savage_99

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Re: Barnes TSX bullet Review in Africa
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2011, 05:42:23 PM »
Question:
The big advantage of today's technology on bullets is that they don't break-apart upon impact.

And thats the reason that they are slow killers of game.  Barsness found out that bullets that fragmented did more damage and killed faster and mono bullets were the worst, the slowest killers.

So take for example those Tipped TSX's or the normal TSX, would it be a wise idea to take one of the lighter bullets (like 110-130 grains) and drive them to max speeds on a 30-06 and still have them be effective for large game?  I mean the bullet ain't gonna fall apart, even if you drive them 3300-3500 fps