Author Topic: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W  (Read 2780 times)

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Offline quickdtoo

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Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« on: June 26, 2009, 06:31:37 PM »
I finally got to do some shooting today, my best friend and I headed into the mountains about 100 miles away at 6:00 this morning to shoot on timber company land in our deer/elk hunting area, got to shoot the 6.5 Swede, 6mmAI Ultra, 6mmAI Optima Elite, 500S&W Handi and the 35Whelen Improved Handi. The Whelen was just for fire forming cases, I used Lyman's SR4759 35 Whelen data with a 204gr gas checked cast bullet, velocity was right at 2100fps and cases formed perfectly, all but four of them that is, I've got a bad batch of WLR primers apparently, also had one in the 500S&W that wouldn't fire after repeated tries, multiple good firing pin strikes on all of them, no fire.  :-\ I have about 600 of them left, with all the trouble it is to get new primers now, I sure hate to toss them, but they certainly aren't reliable, I'm gonna contact Winchester and see if they'll do anything. The 26 that did fire, a couple got two strikes BTW, all went into about 2½" at 100yds.

The 6.5x55 Ultra shoots good to extremely good with the entire load string that I shot, some loads were much better than others tho, I'm shooting Lapua Silver Scenar 139gr with RL22 in Lapua brass, velocity from the 26" barrel was 2511fps, I ran it up to 2740fps, but groups opened up to 1¼"-1½", that was in the afternoon and I started getting some vertical stringing cuz I was trying to get done and wasn't letting it cool off as much as I should between strings, weather was a bit warm at close to 80º and the wind wasn't helping either!!  ::)

A little over a year ago I bought Mac's 6mmAI Hornady hydraulic form die and the matching reamer from him, I sent it and my thumbhole 243 Ultra barrel and my Optima Elite 243 barrel to Wayne along with the reamer and had him rechamber both to 6mm AI in trade for the reamer, he finished them up and returned them to me in less than a month which I thought was excellent. I've had brass preformed for them for quite a while and got to shoot both, using RL19, velocity ran about 3300fps for both of the 24" barrel, accuracy was more than acceptable.

The 500 S&W loads are the Remington Core-lokt bonded 385gr w/cannelure over Lil'gun, heavily crimped with a Hornady taper crimp die, best accuracy was ½gr shy of my max at 2044fps, I may have had some more accurate loads somewhere in the mix, but the scope started slipping in the Leupold PRW rings, at first I thought the scope had gone bad, but then noticed the scope had moved and marred the camo finish on the Nikon Prostaff shotgun scope. So I removed the scope and place a piece of aluminum tape on the bottom ring and remounted it, all was well after that and the scope responded appropriately to adjustments, but by that time, I'd wasted 3 loads steps chasing bullets holes!! :o I also lost what appeared to be a nice group when the primer on the 3rd round wouldn't fire. :'(

We also had a visitor while we were shooting, the manager of the timber company heard us shooting and checked us out. I had called them Wednesday to make sure it was ok to target shoot since some timber companies don't allow it, Weyerhauser for one that I know of. The lady that answered didn't know, but said she'd check and call me back. About 30 minutes later she called, said it was fine, just no mushroom picking. As it turned out, the fella she asked was the manager that stopped to talk to us, he wanted to thank us for checking with them first and told us we could come and shooting anytime we wanted, a real nice fella and hunter himself.  ;)

Tim

"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline tykempster

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2009, 06:43:19 PM »
Pretty decent for an old guy.  ;D

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2009, 06:46:09 PM »
Two old guys, that's what I brought Jack along for, he did a lot of the 6mmAI shooting, but both of us had tired eyes after looking thru scopes all day!! ::)

Thanks Tyler,

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline spooked

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2009, 07:15:55 PM »
Not bad fer a youn'un either! 6.5 happens to be about my ideal caliber. :)
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Offline FW Conch

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2009, 01:18:47 AM »
 :D  As Billy would say "VIOLA" !  I was begining to think that "Swede" project was just something you made up  ;D !

Seriously though,  I know how hard it is to get enough range time in.  I just returned from over a month in Virginia & still didn't get to shoot as much as I'd hoped.

I would say with a little load work & barrel brakein you've got a "1 holer" there  ;) !  Congratulations & how bout some more rifle details & pictures !   ;D   Jim
Jim

Offline wreckhog

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2009, 02:58:13 AM »
Hasn't the Handi Whelan always had a misfire issue?

Offline Skunk

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2009, 03:30:55 AM »
Thanks for the excellent report Tim. Good shooting and lots of fun with a good friend. Can't beat that.
Mike

"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" - Frank Loesser

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2009, 06:07:01 AM »
Thanks, I posted pics last fall when I got it, but I've swapped the stock out for a t-hole since, so I'll get some new pics up.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,150930.msg1098634141.html#msg1098634141


Hasn't the Handi Whelan always had a misfire issue?

With factory ammo, yes, but these are handloads with the neck expanded to .375", then sized to zero headspace on the false shoulder.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Jeff H

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2009, 06:11:26 AM »
Thanks for sharing, Tim.
Anything "6.5x55" grabs my interest and your Handi' project has had me on the edge of my seat.
When I heard about it, I started thinking through the process of building one but have a No.3 I have wanted to do the same to also.  Settled on an '09 Argentine instead.  It's "done," save for front sight and bluing, which I have held off on until I got it to the range - I forget how many years later, still have not had that one out. :'(

Jeff H

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2009, 09:04:06 AM »
Here's a new pic, the frame has a gold tone pre-transfer bar hammer and Wolff dual coil spring, steel trigger guard and spacer, scope is a Mueller TacII 3-10x44 in medium Burris Signature Zee rings mounted on a Warne Maxima Tactical steel base.  ;)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline myarmor

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2009, 12:01:56 PM »
Thats a sweet 6.5! The 6mm AI is an awesome cartridge, a buddy of mine build one with a Lilja barrel and it's amazing to say the least.
Nice work Tim. Looks like the next outing will be even more outstanding ;)




-Aaron

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2009, 12:10:46 PM »
Thanks Aaron, I think I'm gonna RTV bed the 6mmAI Ultra and 6.5x55 forends, Jack shot a couple real nice groups with the Ultra early on when he was taking more time for cooling between shots and the weather was cooler, there could also have been some shooter sighting errors involved with the flyers since we both were getting a bit blurry eyed trying to shoot all those rounds in one sitting, we also lost an hour of shooting time visiting with the timber guy which didn't help.  :D

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline myarmor

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2009, 12:22:01 PM »
Sounds like a plan, it certainly looks incredibly promising. You used a Kriger barrel for your 6.5 didn't you? Just going by memory, if it serves me correctly... which sadly isn't always as good as it should be :P
They make excellent barrels, nothing wrong with a Kriger.

Offline tykempster

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2009, 12:37:59 PM »
Can't that 6.5x55 be loaded way faster?

Offline petemi

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2009, 02:24:16 PM »
Tim, I'm glad you had a good day out shooting with a buddy, in spite of the bad primers.  I would definately take that issue to Winchester.  In the right, or perhaps I should say wrong, circumstances that could cause loss of human life, or a missed trophy of a lifetime.

Now Tim, my friend, could ya confide a bit in us here........just how'd ya cook da mushrooms?? :D ;D :D ;D ;D

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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2009, 02:41:36 PM »
Aaron, it's a Shilen match barrel.

Tyler, I didn't shoot all the loads I made,  I have 1 more grain to go above where I am now at 2740 fps, primers are a bit flat now, one was slightly cratered, but the two shots following weren't.  ???  I was hoping for 2900fps, but that didn't happen, QL let me down!!  :-\  If the primers don't get too much worse and I don't get sticking brass, I may load it a bit hotter and see how it does.  I'm seriously considering sending it back to Wayne to have it improved, but I'll have to weigh the reamer and die costs first, the improved version  will do away with the more than average taper of the standard cartridge which is why the 6.5 SwedeAI has such a good performance increase. I should have considered that before he reamed it, he could have may it a true AI instead of an "improved-improved".

Pete, no shrooms now, too late for morels, but when I do find em, they get sautéed in butter, num num!!  ;D

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline myarmor

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2009, 03:06:24 PM »
and certainly nothing wrong with a Shilen Match either ;D
Seems the Swede isn't much of a hotrod to begin with, but they say the performance is what specks for itself. I have never owned one, but know many that absolutely love the performance they deliever.

Offline fish280

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2009, 06:29:39 PM »
i've had issues with a bolt-action swede and WLR primers ...
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2009, 08:38:10 PM »
I use CCI200s in the 6.5, didn't have any problems with it.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2009, 11:43:01 PM »
Nice shooting Tim. That 500 S&W group looks to be about 2". Not bad for that type of cartridge. You might be able to shrink it a little more since you got the scope locked down. It rattles the teeth a little, so not getting the scope locked down, isn't surprising.  On the plus side; having primers not go off also lets you know if you have a flinch problem or not - hey, I am just trying to put a silver lining on your primer problem. ;)
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2009, 04:42:02 AM »
Yeah, it reminds me of my early flintlock shooting!!! ;D

thanks,

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline carbineman

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2009, 06:59:55 AM »
Tim wrote, I've got a bad batch of WLR primers apparently, also had one in the 500S&W that wouldn't fire after repeated tries, multiple good firing pin strikes on all of them, no fire.   I have about 600 of them left, with all the trouble it is to get new primers now, I sure hate to toss them, but they certainly aren't reliable, I'm gonna contact Winchester and see if they'll do anything. The 26 that did fire, a couple got two strikes BTW, all went into about 2½" at 100yds. >End of quote

I had a friend with some iffy primers. Seems that all brands eventually will leave you down. This was many years ago and you could see the bad ones after we investigated further. If you put them on a primer tray and shook them anvil end up the few that were defective were easy to pick out. He used the rest of the primers for practise rounds, and the new batch he secured for hunting. That is why I now visually inspect (as you may also do) every primer before I use it. Never had one fail yet. I use mainly Remington and  Winchester with some CCI thrown in for when the primer pockets get a bit worn. Seems most everyone is kinda down on Remington and that is my favorite.

Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2009, 07:04:26 AM »
Good shooting Tim.  The old 6.5 Swede doesn't need blazing speed to do a great job, been proved for the last 100+ years, but the AI would give a pretty good increase in powder room= more speed for sure and less backthrust 8).  Glad ya got some range time in, keep us posted.  DP
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2009, 07:48:48 AM »
I've got lots of Rem and CCI LR primers, so I'm not sweating the WLRs too much, seems to me I had problems with them in the 7mm-08 too, but I don't remember now, I'll have to check my records to see what I used in them.

Thanks DP, I'm gonna load up some of the same bullets, but with RL22 for next time, Conley loads their 140gr ammo to 2850fps according to their website, I should be able to get close to that,  I also have some 129gr Hornadys to try for a hunting load, also looked at Berger VLDs, I may be able to find a clear cut that I can shoot in to test these long range bullets, it would be nice to try some at 500+yds!!  ;D

Tim
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Offline Dill45

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2009, 02:15:44 PM »
Nice shooting!

I need to find a load my 500 S&W Handi will like.  Currently I can't hit the paper at 50 yards!  (maybe shooting very high, not sure)  I know the gun can shoot, I put a 1" group at 50 yards with the iron sights using a 325 gr lead bullet over 14.3 grs of TB, but any time I venture into the faster jacketed stuff, it seems to go all over.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2009, 07:54:53 PM »
Thanks, welcome aboard Dill45! Try some Lil'gun and 350gr XTPs or 440gr Ranger Rick's or Cast Performance, they do 2" or less in mine, there are two 500S&W magazine articles in the FAQs and Help sticky, John Taffin's has load data.  ;)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2009, 08:33:39 AM »
Ah Tim me lad!  what a statement!  "groups opened up to 1¼-1½,"    :D

Can you believe there are people who still insist the Handy (and marksmen a bit long in the tooth) can't shoot!   ;) ;D
Richard
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2009, 10:20:32 AM »
Thanks Richard!!
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline tykempster

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2009, 05:48:04 PM »
When will we get long range (or extra long range) results on the 6.5 and 6mm Ackley? 

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Range Report 6.5x55, 6mmAI and 500S&W
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2009, 07:07:07 PM »
Not any time soon.  ;)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain