Author Topic: 10mm Vs 44 Mag  (Read 6536 times)

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Offline Lawdog613

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10mm Vs 44 Mag
« on: June 28, 2009, 06:57:06 AM »
Would like opinions on 10mm vs 44 mag for deer hunting.

Offline buck460XVR

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2009, 08:29:44 AM »
IMO, either would be fine. But since a 10mm is basically a .357 for autos it should be used with the same limitations in mind. Good luck and good hunting with whatever you decide.
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Offline Dustyvance

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2009, 10:07:53 AM »
No experience with the 10mm, but I have never had another handgun that performed as well as my Redhawk 44Magnum. It has a 7 1/2 inch barrel and really packs a punch. I hunt from a rest and don't have a scope ( yet) and have killed deer at 110 yards where they did not run more than 15 yards, usually bang-flop. 300Gr. Hornady XTP's , has a good bit of recoil but I am a big guy and it is not that bad.

Offline mauser98us

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2009, 10:37:40 AM »
I am the world's biggest 10MM freak,but alas I think I will defer to the 44 mag for any kind of handgun hunting

Offline Catfish

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2009, 10:45:12 AM »
Definately the .44 mag. While the 10mm is balsitcly about the same as the .357, the .357 is absolute min. I would consider then with a good bullet. I doubt if any of the 10mm bullets would do the job on a deer unless put into the chest from the side. That limits your shots.

Offline Mikey

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2009, 04:11:06 PM »
Lawdog613: a good 10mm load is every bit as capable as the shooter out to reasonable distances (50-75m).  A 200 gn 10mm slug at just 1100'/sec will give a clean passthrough at those distances; drop the slug weight to 180 and add another 100'/sec and you can stretch it out about as far as you can lay the sights on and place the shot properly.  A good 180 gn 10mm load is about the equivalent of the 38/40 carbine or rifle with the same slug and properly loaded 38/40s are performers. 

I feel the best all around bullet weight for the 10mm or 38/40 is the 180 gn.  The old Remington and Winchester 180 gn 3/4 jacketed slug was a great performer from both rifle and revolver and should perform  well in the 10mm if the slug is still available.  If you reload RCBS used to have a 40183 (?) mould that dropped Keith designed semiwadcutters at 170 to 185 gn depending on mixture and that was a very accurate bullet in my 10mm.  Lyman has a couple of castings for the 38/40 and so do some of the custom bullet makers, so there should be no shortage of reloading capabilities available.  If you do not reload there are a few custom cartridge companies that make some pretty good loads, so there is ample bullet choice. 


Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2009, 12:58:01 AM »
depends some on the platform your using it in. In a smith 610 the 10mm can be loaded to near 41 mag ballistics. In that platform it is a step up from a 357 but stil not in the same league as a 44 mag. that been said a 10mm is everything a 357 is and using cast it gives you the advantage of using bigger and heavier bullets and is probably ample of any deer hunting and with the proper loads very capable of taking pigs and black bear
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Offline Ken ONeill

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2009, 01:50:11 AM »
The 10 mm is adequate. The .44 Mag. is significantly better.

Offline Lawdog613

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 02:18:18 AM »
Thanks all for the responses. I will have to look around to see what I can find at a reasonable cost. I am leaning towards the 44 but I like Glocks and think the Glock 20 with the 6 inch hunting barrel would be nice.

Offline jlwilliams

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2009, 02:27:16 AM »
  Bear in mind thar Glock's polygonal rifling doesn't like cast bullets.

Offline mauser98us

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2009, 05:24:28 PM »
EAA makes a sweet 6 inch semi auto in 10MM

Offline Ak.Hiker

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2009, 07:29:16 PM »
If you do end up with a Glock 20 with the 6 inch hunting barrel check out the 200 grain loads by Double Tap. They load a 200 grain XTP as well as a 200 grain hard cast load that would work well for medium game hunting. Quite a few guys run the 200 grain hard cast in their Glocks. My buddy from work just ordered 4 boxes for his Glock 20. I like the 200 grain FMJ ( field protection load) in my Glock but he prefers the cast when he carries his Glock for animal protection. The nice thing about the Glock 20 is with the 4.6 inch standard barrel you will have a great self defense handgun when loaded with a good 165 to 180 grain hollow point and a good medium game hunting handgun with the 6 inch barrel and 200 grain loads. I would bet a few deer have ended up in hunters freezers over the years taken with the Winchester 175 grain Silvertip purchased right off of the shelf.

Offline Reed1911

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2009, 08:21:09 AM »
I'm a die hard 10mm fan, however for pure hunting the .44 Mag wins hands down.

The 10mm is fully capable of taking medium sized game (deer/pig) and has less recoil than a fully loaded .44M. Yes the .44M can be downloaded as well .44SPL cases can be used so it also has a versatility aspect to it that outshines the 10mm (which has a lot in that respect as well). For all around use however, the 10mm wins on platform as you can carry a flat compact 10mm easier than any revolver.
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Offline ALWAYSSHOOTINSOMETHING

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2009, 10:13:09 PM »
Thanks all for the responses. I will have to look around to see what I can find at a reasonable cost. I am leaning towards the 44 but I like Glocks and think the Glock 20 with the 6 inch hunting barrel would be nice.

I have used both, and, a properly placed shot, is all that is needed with either caliber. That being said, my G20 has Lone Wolf 6" barrel, and I use 200 gr hard cast. 50 yard shots are about max accuracy wise for myself, and my G20 is not, and will not be scoped. On the other hand my Blackhawk is scoped, and I have greater accuracy at all distances. For that reason alone, I prefer the 44 mag for deer hunting. 100 yard shots are not a problem. I have fluffed and buffed the Glock, and traded out the disconnect  to a 3.5 Ghost, and it still doesn't compare to the Ruger, which adds to accurate shooting, at least to me.

Offline rawhidekid

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2009, 12:39:46 AM »
If you get the Glock, remember it does not have a fully supported chamber!  I was at an indoor range with a shooter shooting the Glock with hot handloads that had a significant bulge where it wasn't supported.  When I showed him his empty case he stopped using those reloads.  You can get a Barstow barrel that has a fully supported chamber, that would also allow use of lead bullets(standard rifulling). 8)
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Offline Old Griz

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2009, 05:34:33 PM »
I just enjoy shooting .44 mags! ;D
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Offline rawhidekid

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2009, 05:05:49 AM »
The .44 Mag is also easier to reload.  The .10 mm must be taken care to have enough grip on the case mouth not to allow bullet movement upon recoil.  Easy to do with .44 Mag and a crimp grove, not so easy with just a taper crimp, even harder with no crimp.
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Offline Reed1911

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2009, 05:54:15 AM »
Quote
The .44 Mag is also easier to reload.  The .10 mm must be taken care to have enough grip on the case mouth not to allow bullet movement upon recoil.  Easy to do with .44 Mag and a crimp grove, not so easy with just a taper crimp, even harder with no crimp.

I'm guessing that you do not shoot or re-load 10mm. The 10mm does not have a problem holding onto bullets, even a light taper crimp on short bullets propelled to insane speeds is more than enough to hold them in place; and the longer heavy bullets hold better due to the increase surface area.
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Offline rawhidekid

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2009, 09:22:59 AM »
When I had a 10mm I did reload, my observasion is from three years working at an indoor range watching others attempt to shoot.  I have seen guns of most every caliber damaged by people who thought they could reload!  I also saw the results of two intown companies who tried selling reloads.  Topstraps of Dan Wesson .44Mag pealed back and the top three cylinders blown off.  .45 ACP slides blown off and enumeral barrels with stuck bullets in them.  Telling someone to get a calliber that will have high pressure spikes with just a slight mistake in a reload is not safe if the person is not experianced in reloading. ???
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Offline Reed1911

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2009, 11:08:48 AM »
Quote
When I had a 10mm I did reload, my observasion is from three years working at an indoor range watching others attempt to shoot. 


I'm not sure what that has to do with your original position that the 10mm works bullets loose on recoil any differently than any other caliber?

Quote
I have seen guns of most every caliber damaged by people who thought they could reload!
 

Again, off topic, it has nothing to do with the 10mm, that is a general statement that applies to just about all things. People that don't know what they are doing will likely screw it up. Reloading is a very precise action and MUST be done properly.


Quote
I also saw the results of two intown companies who tried selling reloads.  Topstraps of Dan Wesson .44Mag pealed back and the top three cylinders blown off.  .45 ACP slides blown off and enumeral barrels with stuck bullets in them. 

Again, a valid issue, and I'm sure those companies are no longer in business and never should have been. How does this relate to the 10mm VS .44 Mag?

Quote
Telling someone to get a calliber that will have high pressure spikes with just a slight mistake in a reload is not safe if the person is not experianced in reloading

Again, you are making an off topic point, I think? The 10mm is not hard to reload for nor is it prone to sudden pressure spkies any more than the .45 or .44 Mag.
Small  changes in any reloading operation can lead to big issues. What makes the 10mm so different?

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Offline 454Puma

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2009, 11:36:18 AM »
The 44 Mag hands down! ;D The 10mm in an Auto is good for maybe 50 yards if you can hit anything with Auto sights!  The auto sights are made for close work. Now in a revolver with adjustable sights you can get better accuracy. I prefer 45LC or 454 Casull either will take just about anything you want to shoot.  ;)
One shot , One Kill

Offline rawhidekid

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2009, 02:50:24 PM »
Reed 1911 I qoute the Lyman 47th addition:"It is important not to seat bullets toa shorter length than listed in any handgun cartridge;  but especially in this one.  Presures can be raised dramatically with deep seating."  This is from page 403 10mm automatic.  Heavy recoil in the magazine can deepseat bullets if not seated properly.  Not just my oppinion.  An I have seen plenty of people have this problem evan with .45 ACP.
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Offline Mikey

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2009, 12:14:24 AM »
rawhide:  Thank you for listing that information.  The caveats you have taken from the Lyman reloading manual are good sound advice that I hope all would follow to avoid pressure problems, and these are caveats that apply to all reloaded cartridges whether revolver or pistol, and reloaders should pay heed.

I agree with Ron Reed that the 10mm is pretty easy to reload (for me, as it is a straight case).  When proper seating and crimping procedures are used the bullets should not re-seat more deeply under recoil nor should you experience pressure spikes.  Actually, I wonder if those problems you have seen as a result of pressure spikes due to deeper seated bullets may not have been caused when the slide striped the loaded round from the magazine and slamed it into the chamber, especially if the nose of the slug takes a wallop on the way in.  I think that slugs that seat more deeply under recoil, while in a magazine, aren't properly crimped and the problem may be compounded if the slug seats more deeply under slide battery.  This just means the reloader needs to pay attention to the caveats you listed and to the advice given by Ron Reed that reloading is a very precise action and MUST be done properly.

I have had my own difficulties with slugs 'walking' out of the case under recoil with the heavier magnum rounds I did not crimp tightly enough and have seen semi-auto slugs seat more deeply in the case under slide battery when the crimp was not tight enough but fortunately (knock on wood) nothing untoward has happened. 

I have always felt the 10mm would benefit more from a good solid semi-wadcutter slug than a jacketed slug and I like the Keith 40170 (RCBS???) (or 40183 Lyman) slug he designed for the 38-40, if that slug would function properly in a semi-auto and I would like to see other cast slugs for the 10mm to wear a crimping groove.  The 10mm can be loaded to the lower ranges of the 41 magnum which makes it a fairly effective contender nearing the magnum category. 

To get back to the topic, I have 'some experience' with 10mm cartridges, including my own wildcat and have seen my own hardcast slugs penetrate through the ribcage of whitetail out to 100m.  I have also seen my own cast slugs bust through the on-side shoulder and penetrate the chest cavity to be found just under the hide on the off-side.  I believe a 200 gn 10mm round loaded to 1200'/sec (original load for the Bren 10) will perform the same or better and should be every bit as capable in the hands of a good shooter at reasonable distances (now for me only out to about 50-75m with a very clear sight picture).  I consider the 180 grain weight slug in the 10mm to be about optimal but a 200 gn slug should be heavy enough for the bore so as to add significant penetrability out to effective ranges.  Again, as in my earlier post, a 10mm loaded with a 200 gn slug to 1200'/sec, or even a 180 to the same velocity, places the 10mm squarely in the range of performance for the older 38-40 from a carbine or rifle and that load was taking whitetail, black bear and hog long before the 44 magnum was developed.  Hope this helps.  Mikey.

Offline rawhidekid

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2009, 02:25:43 AM »
Thanks Mikey.  It is interesting that you think the slide slamming a round forward can cause bullet setback.  We probly all have seen a round set back by a jammed slide during a feeding problem at one time or another.  Go to the Buffalo Bore website and read their disclaimer on the 10 mm ammo.  They say to correct large deveations in round to round Fps to increase the recoil spring poundage.  Wouldn't that increase the amount of slide slam? 8)
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Offline Reed1911

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2009, 03:09:55 AM »
Its not the slide slamming home that causes it, he is talking about the bullet jamming on the feed ramp with the force of the slide behind it. That will in fact cause bullet setback, and is of concern. On a single incident, there should be enough tension from crimp and bullet seat to prevent the problem, what tends to happen is folks load up a magazine and chamber one, drop the mag and add one round. Every time they un-load and re-load they tend to use those same two bullets back and forth and the continous chambering tends to cause bullet setback. That is why we recommend not chambering the same round over and over.
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Offline yooper77

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2009, 04:03:39 AM »
I would pick the 44 Magnum hands down; the 10mm Auto is good for defense, but not my first choice for a hunting arm.  I would also pick the 357 Magnum over it as well.

If the 10mm Auto is all you have and it’s legal in your state, then by all means use it with a good quality 180 grain for heavier jacketed hollow point bullets likes the Hornady XTP.

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Offline countryrebel

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2009, 09:51:50 PM »
10mm works for hunting but needs to run at top end IMO. Get the 44mag you will be happy, (I have owned both).

Offline ATLRoach

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2009, 02:09:59 PM »
Being that I have owned just about every 10mm model gun produced minus a 6" Fusion. 10mm is my 1st choice for hunting and personal back up.

The 10mm pros over the 44mag:
Lighter Gun
More Mag Capacity except 610s
Wider range of sight especially in the 1911 models
Concealable minus 610s
Less Recoil for Follow up shots.

44Mag Pros over the 10mm:
Ammo Availability
Bullet Choices
Longer Barrels for longer sight radius(except vs 610)
More down range energy


Offline countryrebel

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2009, 07:38:46 PM »
I played the 10mm game before and while it has it's place it is no 44 mag. I went out tonight and shot my super redhawk and it reminded me of why I chose it over the 10mm. I would not hesitate to hunt deer with 10mm though.

Offline Tonk

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Re: 10mm Vs 44 Mag
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2009, 04:22:59 PM »
Lawdog 613........The .44mag is another level above the 10mm caliber! I have hunted with my .44mag model 29 before Clint Eastwood made the big 29 famous on the Hollywood screen. It is a real deer caliber and one you can count on getting the job done. I don't dislike the 10mm by the way, I carry one all day long but it is not in the same class as the .44mag for taking deer.