2 3/4 " roll crimp 12 ga. shells

[kody]

    Are 12 ga. roll crimp shotshells available at reasonable cost? Is handloading an option ? I have a 1947 model Wards Western Field that I've parked for all these years, first because  the star crimp's extra fired length  wouldn'eject and also because I was caught up in the bigger ,faster ,newer offerings that never stopped showing up. I've come to appreciate that old gun. It has a lot of memories tied to it and it is the slickest, smoothest action I've ever owned. I would like to pester grouse with it a little more and there is nobody who feels anything for an old fuddy duddy like it. I'm sure though that there are those of you who can relate to this and possibly have memories of certain guns that they could kick themselves for getting rid of . Nobody else will have those feelings for them!    Ken

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

There are several options.  For loaded shells, here's one of the options;  Kent Game Bore loads.

http://www.kitterytradingpost.com/product.php/prodid/134

If you reload, roll crimp loads are surprisingly easy.  Several companies sell roll crimp heads. Lyman and Ballistic Products come to mind.  With them you can load whatever length suits your fancy.  I've loaded shells cut to 2 inches, just to see if it can be done.

Cut off a plastic hull.  I use a piece of white PVC pipe as a cut-off guide. If you can obtain paper shells, they make great roll crimped loads.
deprime, size, and reprime on a regular press
drop, or dip, powder
use a fibre wad column if you like, but you might find that a short plastic wad, like the WW red wad or a copy of it, might work. Many of the 1 1/4 oz plastic wads help build a good light load.
drop, or dip, shot
insert over-shot wad
set under the roll crimp head in a slow-run drill press and carefully lower it to form the roll.

That is the short version, and a bit of practice and cut-and-try might be required.

[.45 COLT]

Seems like 1947 is awfully late (new) for an American short-chambered gun. Could be wrong, but even Winchester lengthened their chamber to 2 3/4" before then, and they were the last manufacturer that had short chambers. First thing I'd do is check chamber length or have it checked.

Looks like those Kent shells are for 16 and 20 Gauge, didn't see any for 12 but I tend to miss things now and then.

Reloads with trimmed cases, either folded or rolled might be your best - or maybe only - option.

DC

[kody]

  The gun IS chambered for 2 3/4 shells, it will eject fired 2 3/4" roll tops and won't eject 2 3/4" fired Star-crimped shells. The interference is very small and perhaps the gun could have been altered to allow star-crimp shell use , but I didn't know then, nor do I now, if that is safe or feasable.   Ken

[.45 COLT]

Well, if you reload, or know somebody that'll do it for you, it might be fairly easy. Trim 1/16" (or so) from a hull. Follow any regular reload data. When it comes to the crimp, insert an overshot card, then fold crimp it. I've used that idea (trimming off 1/8") to make shells as short as 2 5/8" for a short-chambered gun.

The only commercial roll-crimped shells that I know of are some rifled slug loads. I looked around for short shell loads (commercial) and couldn't find any in 12 Gauge. That doesn't mean there aren't any, just I couldn't find them.

DC

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

"Trim 1/16" (or so) from a hull. Follow any regular reload data. When it comes to the crimp, insert an overshot card, then fold crimp it. I've used that idea (trimming off 1/8") to make shells as short as 2 5/8" for a short-chambered gun."

In fact, that is pretty close to how I make 2 1/2 inch loads for my Husqvarna underlever.  I cut plastic shells to exactly 2.5" and run em through all the steps on my MEC Grabber without any adjustments to the press.  The only alteration is to use a plastic wad for a heavier load.  e.g. If I wish to load 1 oz., I use a WW AA white wad for 1 1/8 oz loads. Of course I am using quite light powder charges. After the shot drops I put in an O/S wad and continue cycling the load around through the three crimp stages. The crimp and taper finish dies leave a very pretty 8 point star shape with the folds pushed down to mimic a roll crimp. 

I call it the JAM ROLL, but I've been told that it has been called the HARTIN crimp, after a previous inventor of the system.

If you hunt around on that Game-Bore site, you will find 12 gauge loaded shells.

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

Thanks for the PM Kody;

If you are trying this system, you might have to cut-and -try a bit to get the wad column right.  If you reload you will have a few different types around. 

Start with a light powder load, fit a wad, drop the shot, and fit the O/S card.  Adjust the wad or the shot to leave about 3/8 inch or a bit less of case to fold.

Good Shooting!

[Hank08]

Take it to a gunsmith and have him run his "long forcing cone reamer" into the chamber, shouldn't cost much and you'll probably get better patterns and then you can shoot whatever
you want with no ejection problems. Much easier fix than playing with the shells.
H08

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

Hank;  YABUT, it's fun playin' wid shells!

I believe the problem was that star crimp shells were too long to eject from Kody's gun.

[kody]

   Hank, would you please explain to me how running a long forcing cone reamer into the chamber is going to help the fired hull eject through an ejection port machined to a size ,at the factory, that allowed roll-crimp fired shells to eject but doesn't do the same for the star crimp shell's extra fired length.   Ken