Author Topic: Debating on Caliber for Mountain Rifle (Read 2967 times)

NitroSteel · « **on:** July 06, 2009, 05:55:02 PM »

I'm wanting to buy a lightweight mountain rifle in the $1,000 or so price range (more than likely a Kimber Montana - unless someone talks me out of it).

The scope on the gun will be a Swarovski Professional Hunter 2.5-10x42.

The likely culprits of bullet holes will be Elk, Moose, Caribou, Aoudad and of course deer on occasion. I can shoot as good as most folks I've seen shoot, but honestly I'm not capable of consistently hitting anything properly beyond about 350 yards on a regular basis if there is much wind (and neither can most anyone else I shoot with...). On the other hand I want to be able to penetrate/kill any of the above at this distance with no issue.

Common sense almost tells me to just buy a 300WSM and be done with it, but I really want something bigger. The most intriging choice to me, since it came out, is the 325WSM. Prior to this, I wanted a 338 Win Mag. Now the 338 Federal is available and I'm not sure what to think of it. Is it powerful and flat enough?

The thing that scares me most about the 338 Federal and the 325WSM is the (lack of) popularity of them, which in the end may lead to the scarcity of ammunition for someone like me who does not handload. Other than this, I'm just not sure how smart it is to buy a sub 6 lb rifle and shoot a caliber of this magnitude...

Honestly it is starting to seem like the 338 Federal may be a really good choice, I'm just not sure if it has enough UMMMMPH.

Any ideas on the "why's" of choosing one of these over the other would be greatly appreciated.

Thank ya'll for your help.

NitroSteel[imgn[/img]

GatCat · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2009, 10:29:46 PM »

I can't help you much on the choice between the two rounds you mentioned, but, IMO, a lightwieght Mt. Rifle is a perfect platform for a modestly recoiling round, .270, .280, etc. ( .280AI !! ). With the premium bullets available now, penetration on anything you mentioned would be no problem, and the more modest recoil might make for better shootability ( flinch due to recoil ?).
Just my 2 cents.
Mark

spruce · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2009, 04:15:29 AM »

For a non-handloader the round that springs to mind is the .30-06.

It's killed probably tens of thousands of the type of animals you mentioned, it's available everywhere, it's cheaper than most, it's reasonably pleasant to shoot even in a light rifle, it will never go away, and properly sighted in is just as easy (or hard!) to hit with at 350 yards as any .300 mag.

Granted, it's not as glamourous as the latest super dooper magnum, but it gets the job done - and you'll be able to afford more ammo to practice if you don't handload.

Bottom line though is pick whatever YOU'LL be happy with!

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2009, 07:37:41 PM »

What about a 7mm rem mag, not many big game animals gonna walk that off. It'll keep up the speed at distance and with premium bullets you'll get the upset you want. I would be afraid of 7mm WSM becoming an orphan too soon, especially if you aren't reloading.

My buddy is shooting a 300WSM and that is a nice round, and is popular enough that I think it may last. If you reload there are lots of bullet choices out there. The short action will help in keeping the weight down too.

I won a 325WSM and can tell you that finding ammo though not impossible, is a chore. As far as I can tell, the selection around here is exactly one size and $50 a box. That is the top shelf 200gr Winchester elite stuff though. The other problem I see is that not many bullets come in 8mm for reloading. But then again at 8mm do you need many choices, not like I will be varmint hunting with it, and that big a hole in a deer means the end of the day no matter the upset.

I feel like my 300WM is my most useful rifle cartridge. I have it in a Tikka t3 lite and it is by no means fun to shoot. Once sighted in I don't really shoot it that much any way.

This isn't a gun you'll be shooting much anyway so get it in a big ol' rascal. Shoot enough to zero it in, get a snap cap to practice with and 200 rnds of ammo it likes. Save the brass for the future in case it becomes an orphan.

Savage .250 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2009, 01:27:36 AM »

" Debating on a caliber for a Mountain Rifle."............... Certainly a lot of good ones out there but for me I`d go with a 30-06.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2009, 02:08:11 AM »

The 308 Winchester, the original short magnum would work well in a short action light rifle.

Cheese

243dave · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2009, 04:12:00 AM »

Since your not a handloader the 300wsm(maybe the 308 if you have enough confindence in its power and range, I do) would be your best choice in a short-action. Just keep in mind a 300mag is brutal in a light rifle. I'd bypass the 325wsm---too hard to find and not much different than the 300wsm. The 338 federal seems to be a great round but is it much more than a 308 with premuim bullets, probably not. Ammo for it would be hard to find. I didn't mention the 30-06 because for 30 caliber the 308 is the round I cut my teeth on so when I need something with more power or range I get out a 300mag. In my mind there is no other round over the 300 win mag/wsm until you get to the 338 win mag. It is a real step up with 250gr bullets. Would I get one in a 5.5lb kimber for extended range sessions---no way !!! Get the 308 or 300wsm, both will work fine for what you need. Dave

superdown · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2009, 06:44:12 PM »

I shoot an A-bolt II in 325wsm and would recomend this round to anyone i don't know about georgia but around here it's not difficult to find ammo for it at all 180, 200 ,and the 220 grn power points i shoot are common at most of the sporting goods stores around these parts . don't let the nay sayers perpetuate the demise of perfectly good rounds by scaring you out of buying something other than daddy's 06.

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2009, 11:53:57 PM »

Remington Model 700™ Titanium or Mountain Rifle in .30-06. I wouldn't buy a Kimber.

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2009, 03:38:12 AM »

Nitro, while light mt. rifles are all the rage right now, a light rifle is more difficult to hold steady than a std. weight rifle. I have always used a std. wt. rifle for my mt. hunting and never experience any difficulty. On longer shots it is a real plus.As to calibers, you didn't mention grizzly, so given antlered game, I see no need for a 33 caliber. As for the 325 WSM, I would say it is not going to survive nor the .338 Fed. The .338 win. is a real beast in a light rifle, especially if loaded heavy enough for any speed. This is the trouble with anything over .30 cal. to get real speed is either impossible, or recoil is something else. You mentioned you would not shoot over 350 yards, given those requiremnts, to me the choice is relatively simple. One choice would be the old 06. I never could see the sense in a .308 when one could get a better performer in the 06. You have a wide range of bullets available, and with the premium bullets available you can turn the 06 on heavier game with confidence when using a ligher bullet. A second choice could be the .300 WSM. It is suppose to deliver good speed with shorter barrels. If I were going this route it would be the one I would look at, but I like magnums anyway. Finally, one could make a fairly light rifle with a longer barrel in .300 Win. It would have the speed, range, and power for any game you choose to hunt. But it would take some pratice to get used to in a fairly light rifle. It has been my choice since 1972. My rifle is fairly heavy, but on difficult shots easy to hold steady. It is easy for folks to say, they would pass on longer shots, but given the breaks of a hunting trip, distance, expense, etc. I want to be ready for any reasonable chance.

castman · « **Reply #10 on:** August 04, 2009, 04:13:53 AM »

338 lapua fits the bill quite nicely. Its very popular among tactical/military types. Will serve you well out to 1500 meters and with a soft bullet would be great up close too.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #11 on:** August 04, 2009, 05:26:43 AM »

I built myself a mountain rifle many years ago, to do exactly what you want to do, and it's chambered for 280 Remington. 150 NP's will work for moose on down, and still do a great job on smaller animals. If i was building one today, it would be another 280 Remington, second choise would be 30-06.

DM

mauser98us · « **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2009, 05:32:19 AM »

I like the .325 From what I was told,by some folks in the know,when Winchester folded up their tent a few years ago.The .325 was the second most popular chambering in the Model 70 behind the ought six.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2009, 07:26:57 AM »

My next mountain rifle will be either a Rem 700 XCR or a Kimber 8400 Montana in 338 Win Mag.
I think the 338 Win Mag is the perfect round. Lots of power, good bullet selection, good trajectory, recoil like a 30-06 and very little meat damage.
Right now my mountain rifle is a Win M70 Super grade in 338 Win Mag and I still curse that horse for knicking my rifle after I got off of her and she rubbed the rifle against a tree.
As far as a scope. What ever glass strikes your fancy.
Right now my M70 rears a Weaver 4.5-14X40 AO. Really do not like the scope. When I went elk hunting in Mt. at one point I was on a drive that had me pushing through some woods into open area and back into woods. I was not happy having to dial the front of the scope from the 20 yards to 200 yards and back depending on where I was walking.
While looking and helping my Nephew look for a hunting rifle I like the Leupold Var X II LRD scope. It has a couple of points low on duplex for range. The other scopes that have peeked my intrest are the trijicon scopes but need to play with one outside.

EsoxLucius · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2009, 08:22:57 AM »

Most people don't think of a Weatherby Mark V Ultra Lightweight when considering a mountain rifle. However, they don't cost that much more than a Kimber 8400 Montana and are cheaper than a Remington 700 Alaskan Ti. They are lighter than the Kimber and every Weatherby I've owned shot very well. Even the Weatherby Mark V Synthetic in standard calibers costs and weighs the same as the Kimber. A 30-06 will fit the stated application.

The Weatherby Mark V Ultra Lightweight was produced in the 338-06 and there may be some on the used market. A 6 pound rifle which throws a 210 grain Nosler Partition at 2750 fps will take any ungulate in North America and handle the occasional grizz as well.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2009, 12:48:51 PM »

Quote

I think the 338 Win Mag is the perfect round. Lots of power, good bullet selection, good trajectory, recoil like a 30-06 and very little meat damage.

Recoil like a 30-06??

Try some "full power" loads in that .338 mag., and see how it recoils then!

DM

billy_56081 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2009, 01:10:25 PM »

I say something in a 7MM. 280, 280AI, 7WSM, 7 Rem Mag, 7 Weatherby mag. All will do a great job on the game you will encounter in the mountains. The 7 has moderate recoil, great bullet selection, and high BC for each weight of bullet. Perfect.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #17 on:** August 04, 2009, 01:22:55 PM »

What I shoot the Remington 225 grain soft point core locks out of my rifle.
OK if a 30-06 recoils with 17 pounds the 338 is only a pound more.
My firends friend has a Ruger M77 in 338 that was brutal in recoil and I thought worse than my 375H&H. Filling ratteling recoil.
Like he was shooting 338's in a 300 Win kind of recoil.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #18 on:** August 04, 2009, 02:25:01 PM »

Quote from: mcwoodduck on August 04, 2009, 01:22:55 PM

What I shoot the Remington 225 grain soft point core locks out of my rifle.
OK if a 30-06 recoils with 17 pounds the 338 is only a pound more.
My firends friend has a Ruger M77 in 338 that was brutal in recoil and I thought worse than my 375H&H. Filling ratteling recoil.
Like he was shooting 338's in a 300 Win kind of recoil.

The .338 mag recoils a fair amount more than a 30-06, EXPECIALLY with the same SD bullets.

The stock on one gun "may" not fit you, and make it feel like that gun has more recoil, but there's NO magic going on. The .338 still recoils more than a 30-06...

DM

1marty · « **Reply #19 on:** August 04, 2009, 02:36:22 PM »

I had a remington 700 30-06 in a mountain rifle. I have fond memories of having the bridge of my nose beat up from the scope and putting ben gay after a day at the range. I went back to a regular 700 in a 7-08. For some reason people forget shot placement, not "power" is key.

burntmuch · « **Reply #20 on:** August 04, 2009, 02:51:39 PM »

7mm-08 rem Model 7. Its my poor mans mtn rifle

RaySendero · « **Reply #21 on:** August 04, 2009, 04:11:48 PM »

Quote from: NitroSteel on July 06, 2009, 05:55:02 PM

I'm wanting to buy a lightweight mountain rifle in the $1,000 or so price range (more than likely a Kimber Montana - unless someone talks me out of it).

The scope on the gun will be a Swarovski Professional Hunter 2.5-10x42.

The likely culprits of bullet holes will be Elk, Moose, Caribou, Aoudad and of course deer on occasion. I can shoot as good as most folks I've seen shoot, but honestly I'm not capable of consistently hitting anything properly beyond about 350 yards on a regular basis if there is much wind (and neither can most anyone else I shoot with...). On the other hand I want to be able to penetrate/kill any of the above at this distance with no issue.

Common sense almost tells me to just buy a 300WSM and be done with it, but I really want something bigger. The most intriging choice to me, since it came out, is the 325WSM. Prior to this, I wanted a 338 Win Mag. Now the 338 Federal is available and I'm not sure what to think of it. Is it powerful and flat enough?

The thing that scares me most about the 338 Federal and the 325WSM is the (lack of) popularity of them, which in the end may lead to the scarcity of ammunition for someone like me who does not handload. Other than this, I'm just not sure how smart it is to buy a sub 6 lb rifle and shoot a caliber of this magnitude...

Honestly it is starting to seem like the 338 Federal may be a really good choice, I'm just not sure if it has enough UMMMMPH.

Any ideas on the "why's" of choosing one of these over the other would be greatly appreciated.

Thank ya'll for your help.

NitroSteel[imgn[/img]

Nitro,

If me - I'd look for a Rem M7 in 7-08, 308 or 350 RM. My whys:

7-08 if primary game is deer and sheep
308 if for general all around everythings including black bear and elk
350 Rem Mag if griz was high your list

billy_56081 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 04, 2009, 04:31:40 PM »

I think Remington at least at one time made a model 700 mountain rifle. The calibers I remember were 270 280 and 3006.

"One of the neatest Model 700's is the Mountain Rifle LSS. The Mountain Rifle LSS is a deluxe model that features a stainless steel barreled action with a slim profile 22" barrel and a slender, modern classic style, laminated hardwood stock. It is what Remington refers to as a "Specialty" rifle. Remington literature says that the Model 700 Mountain Rifle is designed for wilderness or high country pack-in hunts that involve rigorous hiking.

In the Remington world, "LSS" signifies a rifle with laminated wood stock and stainless steel metal parts. The internal magazine has a hinged floorplate with a trigger guard mounted release. The stock is stained a medium walnut brown color. The barreled action is made from satin finished 416 stainless steel. It is a good looking rifle that stops just this side of being gaudy--a line that other stainless/laminated rifles often, unfortunately, cross to their detriment. The stock has a tough synthetic finish to protect it from the elements. It also has a black forearm tip, a black pistol grip cap, a solid rubber butt pad and studs for detachable sling swivels. It is checkered in a generous and deeply laser cut point pattern that wraps completely around the forearm. Calibers offered in 2008 are .270 Winchester, .280 Remington, 7mm-08 and .30-06."

From Chuck Hawks

drdougrx · « **Reply #23 on:** August 05, 2009, 04:13:35 AM »

My 2 cents....I really don't think caliber makes much of a difference. I own a couple of ruger ultralites in 270 and 243 (though I've since rebarreled both...another story entirely). I also own a Rem KS mountain rifle in 30/06 and it's nearly perfect. I don't think in that type of rifle you save much weight at all if you get one one in a short action, maybe a few ounces. IF I were to get another one and was going to use the rifle as a general all around lite rifle, I'd still get an 06 and possible rechamber to the AI. A 270/280 would also be perfectly acceptable. I really like billy's suggestion of the 700 Mountain SS though. To be fair, I'd also look at a 300WSM just because...........

rex6666 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 03, 2009, 07:57:16 AM »

Your daddy's 30-06 is still killing anything in north America and you can
find fodder at any cross road.

My self i think i like the 270 because of recoil.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #25 on:** September 03, 2009, 12:02:05 PM »

Quote from: rex6666 on September 03, 2009, 07:57:16 AM

Your daddy's 30-06 is still killing anything in north America and you can
find fodder at any cross road.
My self i think i like the 270 because of recoil.

And i still like the 280 Rem., because it splits those two right down the middle... lol

DM

Cottonwood · « **Reply #26 on:** October 23, 2009, 02:30:56 AM »

Quote from: Drilling Man on September 03, 2009, 12:02:05 PM

Quote from: rex6666 on September 03, 2009, 07:57:16 AM
Your daddy's 30-06 is still killing anything in north America and you can
find fodder at any cross road.
My self i think i like the 270 because of recoil.

And i still like the 280 Rem., because it splits those two right down the middle... lol

DM

The 280 Rem aka 7 mm Express Remington was the parent cartridge of the now current 7mm-08

and I may someday own a rifle in the .280 Remington as well. There are many ways to go with the 7mm family, but you got to love the 7's

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #27 on:** October 23, 2009, 06:00:04 AM »

Quote from: The Montanan on October 23, 2009, 02:30:56 AM

Quote from: Drilling Man on September 03, 2009, 12:02:05 PM
Quote from: rex6666 on September 03, 2009, 07:57:16 AM
Your daddy's 30-06 is still killing anything in north America and you can
find fodder at any cross road.
My self i think i like the 270 because of recoil.

And i still like the 280 Rem., because it splits those two right down the middle... lol

DM
[/quot

The 280 Rem aka 7 mm Express Remington was the parent cartridge of the now current 7mm-08 and I may someday own a rifle in the .280 Remington as well. There are many ways to go with the 7mm family, but you got to love the 7's

The 7mm Express / 280 is a necked down 30-06 to .284
the 7-08 is a 308 win necked down to 284.
All four are great cartridges and will do wonders for what ever you want to put a hole in.
I really do not see that much of a difference between the 308 bullet and the 7mm bullets. Both offer a wide variety of projectiles from varmint to Big game and the teckno bullets like the X, Nos Part, A Frame, or the Fussion.
you can not go wrong with either as they are only .024" apart from each other and share a lot of the same bullet weights.

JASmith · « **Reply #28 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:21:13 PM »

In the end, go with the rifle that tickles your fancy the best!

Keep in mind, however, that:

the 30-06 is darned hard to beat for the game you mentioned and has the potential for heavier animals when you go with heavier bullets.
the 270 (my favorite) works for the animals you mentioned
Have you thought about the .260 Rem? (slightly better than the 6.5 x 55 which has taken all of them and more too!)

Sweetwater · « **Reply #29 on:** October 23, 2009, 07:29:35 PM »

My Mtn Rifle is an 8x57 Persian Carbine. Never have run out of ammo for it.

My "other" rifle is a Ruger 77 MKII 6.5x55. As posted, the 6.5x55 has taken all of the "intended game" and whatever it gives up to the 260Rem is lost on me. The higher pressure of the 260Rem creates a concussion that I do not enjoy at the range; where I do 90% of my shooting. The 6.5x55 is a joy to shoot round after round. I like shooting a lot at a time and probably why I prefer the standard calibers and old-timers. I'm deaf enough to last the rest of my life. LOL!

Regards,
Sweetwater