Author Topic: The real reasons!!  (Read 3826 times)

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Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: The real reasons!!
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2009, 11:50:03 AM »
ironfoot,
You obviously haven't read my series on the Yankee Myths, have you? In that series of threads, I diligently disproved everything you've just posted over the last few days.
Go back and read them from the beginning. Everything is documented.

You are right, the CSA was not bound by the constitution. The Southern states, BEFORE secession, WERE. That's why they seceded in the EXACT manner prescribed by LAW; their State Legislatures. Once the CSA was formed, the South was no longer bound by the Constitution, and never claimed to be. They had their own. It was only while under the Constitution that they used it to prove their legal right to leave. From the day the Confederate States of America was formed, the United states became an illegal invading force. 

Lincoln broke the laws in the Constitution more than any other President. Before 1861, there was no such country as the United States of America. We were the united States of America. Each state stood on its own, within the compact of union. Each state was sovereign. I have already proven this in my Myth threads. The U.S. government set forth the meaning of sovereignty in 1776. It showed in detail, as the basis from which to secede from England, how the states were indeed sovereign.  How could that have changed 87 years later? It didn't. The states legally remained sovereign until 1865. That's when the NEW nation, known as The United States of America, was formed. It in no way resembled the Republic for which we stand, that the Founding Fathers created.

You can't use the "I will support the Constitution of the United States" as proof that the Union was perpetual. Before there Was a Union under the United States Constitution, there was the Union under the Articles of Confederation, which CLEARLY states that THAT Union was to be perpetual. In order for the states to join the Union under the Constitution, they had to First SECEDE from the Union under the AOC. Not all did at the same time. Three states didn't leave the AOC for at least a year, so there were actually 2 governments operating in this country at the same time. Where was the U.S. military THEN? Why didn't they FORCE those 3 states to adopt the Constitution to keep the precious Union in tact? Because they KNEW they didn't have the legal grounds to do so.

And while I'm on the subject, How the hell do you think this country got started in the first place? We SECEDED from England! The United States supported at least NINE secession movements BEFORE 1861. The U.S. has also supported more secession movements AFTER 1861 than any other nation on earth. Why is it that the South was the ONLY secession they didn't want to happen? MONEY!

The South seceded on the grounds that Abraham Lincoln declared to raise the tariffs so high it would have bankrupted the South. And those tariffs applied ONLY to Southern exports! That had nothing to do with wanting to preserve slavery.
Go look in the 1860 census, and you will clearly see that upwards of 80% of the taxes being paid to the Federal Government was being paid by the SOUTH! You want to talk about taxation without representation? Where do you think that money was spent? UP NORTH! The South was footing the bill to run the government and Lincoln wanted them to pay MORE.

The Constitution actually does provide for secession. The 10th Amendment states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." To this day, the United States Government has not made secession illegal, because of this Amendment. They CAN'T.

The United States Military Academy at West Point, in NEW YORK, taught the principle of secession and outlined the precise manner in which it was to be carried out. The text book that was used to teach secession was approved by the United States government and was used from 1825 until 1865, after the war ended!  I have an entire thread devoted to secession, and I proved its legality, its morality, and its justness.

The war was NOT fought by the North to preserve the Union, it was fought to keep the money supply from drying up! Read Lincoln's speeches, he was NOT trying to free the slaves. He didn't CARE about the slaves. He was actually an open RACIST.
He said, "If I could save the union by freeing all the slaves, I would do it. If I could save it by free some and leaving some, I would do it. And if I could save it by freeing none, I would do that, too." (Paraphrased) 

I recommend to anyone, especially the new folks who haven't read these threads, to please go back and take a look at them. The one on secession is titled, Secession: Answering the Critics. Most of the rest are under a heading of Yankee Myth and they are numbered.

SBG

DEO VINDICE
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: The real reasons!!
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2009, 04:41:21 PM »
Just to make this one easier for all you guys, I'm reprinting the opening post here from Yankee Myth # 4. I originally posted it on December 16, 2008. To read the replies, it appears on Page 3, about 3/4 of the way down the page.

ironfoot, this bud's for you, my friend... ;)


YANKEE MYTH # 4
The South Fought the War to Preserve Slavery

   When discussing the motives for fighting the War for Southern Independence, the Yankee myth-makers have assigned virtue to the North and vice to the South. One of their favorite myths is to assert that Southerners were fighting to keep people in slavery. This lie has been, and still is, either stated or implied over and over until today most Southerners themselves accept their assigned position of national villains without so much as one word of protest. They just don't know any better.

   The absurdity of this myth can be seen by understanding that at least 80% of the Confederate soldiers were NOT slave owners! And 94% of the entire Southern population owned NO slaves. Now let's try to put the extent of the Southern sacrifice into some type of modern perspective. During World War II, the United States lost approximately 300,000 military personnel. If the U.S. had lost personnel in WWII at the same rate (per capita) as the South did during the War for Southern Independence, the loss of American lives in WWII would not have been 300,000 but instead 6,000,000 (yes, six million people!)

   Who in his right mind could honestly claim that the Southern soldiers and sailors, the vast majority of whom were Not slave owners, went to war against a numerically superior foe and endured four long years of hardships, all in order to allow a few rich men to keep their slaves? Yet, the Yankee myth of history has been so pervasive that this is the message that our children usually receive from the educational system paid for by our taxes.

   Jefferson Davis wrote to his wife in February 1861 that, no matter what the result of the conflict was, the slave property of the South "will eventually be lost." This is further evidence that slavery was in demise in the South. Slavery was so NOT the issue of war in the South that it was not even Mentioned in President Davis' inaugural address.

A partial list of SOUTHERN leaders who were NOT slave owners when war broke out include:

Robert E. Lee,
Joseph Johnston,
A.P. Hill,
Fitzhugh Lee, and
J.E.B. Stuart.

Remember, Northern General Ulysses Grant personally held slaves until they were freed in 1866, by the 13th Amendment.

   Add to this evidence to the testimony of some of the soldiers. The desire for independence was evident in countless letters early in the war and continues even after years of desperate struggle.

For example:

George Washington Bolton of the 12th Louisiana Volunteer Infantry, C.S.A. sent this encouragement home to his people:
You seem to be in low spirits and fearful we will not gain our Independence. So long as there is an arm to raise in DEFENSE of Southern Liberties there is still hope. We must prove ourselves worthy of establishing an independent Government.

   In March of 1865, a soldier from Company K, 7th Louisiana Infantry, C.S.A. wrote home:
... with proud hearts and strong arms we are more determined than ever to apply every energy until our independence is achieved.

   From Shreveport, Louisiana, in April of 1865, come these words:
I firmly believe we will yet achieve our independence.

   We should also look at the fact that, IF the South wanted to keep slavery it never had to fire a single shot. The soldiers merely had to lay down their weapons and go home. Slavery would have remained in tact with no ill effects. The fact of the matter being, The South was unlawfully invaded and Her military fought a purely DEFENSIVE war. Remember that more than 99% of the war was fought in the SOUTH.
   
   From these few examples it can be seen that these men were fighting for the same principles their forefathers fought for  in the War For American Independence -- the right of self-government.

Another Yankee Myth Exposed....



SBG
DEO VINDICE
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: The real reasons!!
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2009, 04:53:15 PM »
I've been on GB for a few years and just happened to see the  Civil War forum.  Don't know how i missed it or how long it has been here.

Glad you found us, southernutah. It's great to have you in the forum. As we like to say in Southeast Georgia, "Come on in and set a spell." Hope to see around more often. Don't be scared to share your thoughts. We Have been in some "sho-nuff" knock down - drag outs around here.    :D
But it's all in good fun. Nothing really too bad.   ;D

Again, it's great to have ya,

SBG
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline southernutah

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Re: The real reasons!!
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2009, 06:22:58 PM »
I think it is hard to get any where wheneven southerners find it hard to talk about the past and work together. What  I could see is a organization that could become a voice like  you see with the NRA. 6 millon southern gentlemen that come to gether to make their vioces heard would open some eyes. If you were born in America and hold true to making the country better you could become a member.

Offline BUFFALOW red

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Re: The real reasons!!
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2009, 03:40:21 PM »
quoit: 6 millon southern gentlemen that come to gether to make their vioces heard would open some eyes

have gun will travel
weres the sign up

Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: The real reasons!!
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2009, 05:32:09 PM »
 I think it would be more like 25 or 30 million Southern Gentlemen, not just 6 million. You gotta remember, there are about 330 million people in the U.S. Two-thirds of that population lives East of the Mississippi River. There are 4.5 million people in Atlanta alone. Talk about getting some voices heard.... ;)

SBG

DEO VINDICE
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline chefjeff

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NC native
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2010, 12:46:56 PM »
Wow! So glad to read these interesting comments. Now I know I'm not the only one thinking this way. Ive got plenty of ammo. Deo Vindice ,he always does.

Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: The real reasons!!
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2010, 06:38:47 PM »
Glad you found us chefjeff! Thanks for dropping by. Hope you can stay a while.

SBG

DEO VINDICE
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: NC native
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2010, 02:20:00 PM »
Wow! So glad to read these interesting comments. Now I know I'm not the only one thinking this way. Ive got plenty of ammo. Deo Vindice ,he always does.

I'll second SBG in welcoming you to our camp fire. Enjoy.

Gw
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline All Hawks Kill

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Re: The real reasons!!
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2010, 04:03:04 AM »
Just found it place and let me say this is a great thread, good to see there are like minded folks around!
"Duty is Our's; Consequences are God's" - Stonewall Jackson
Lone Star Bowhunters Association
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bounty-Hunter-Traditional-Arrows/136041049773118?v=wall&ref=sgm

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: The real reasons!!
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2010, 12:35:05 AM »
Just found it place and let me say this is a great thread, good to see there are like minded folks around!

Welcome to the fire, please feel free to join in, anytime.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: The real reasons!!
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2010, 12:45:18 PM »
Thanks for dropping by Hawk. We try to bring the truth to the forefront and let folks see the other side of the coin. They soon realize the side they've always known has been worn down and when they flip it over, it's like bringing sight to a blind man for the first time.  ;)

Glad you found us. Hope you can become a regular.

SBG

DEO VINDICE

P.S. By the way Hawk, where are you from? Just curious...
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline All Hawks Kill

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Re: The real reasons!!
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2010, 04:55:18 PM »
I was born and raised in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia near the town of Elkton, which was known as Conrad's Store back in the 1860s. I'm kin to most of the men that made up Company I (Riverton's Invincibles) of the 10th Virgina Volunteer Infantry. 

I now live in the great State of Texas, but I'll always be a Virginian.
"Duty is Our's; Consequences are God's" - Stonewall Jackson
Lone Star Bowhunters Association
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bounty-Hunter-Traditional-Arrows/136041049773118?v=wall&ref=sgm

Offline mfuff

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Re: The real reasons!!
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2010, 12:29:10 PM »
Interesting stuff guys