Author Topic: 45/70 - 250gr Barnes TSX (Read 9642 times)

Capt Gary · « **on:** July 08, 2009, 08:55:14 AM »

Does anyone have any experience with the Barnes 250 TSX in the 45/70. I'd really like some feedback on powders and results.
I just starting to load for the 45/70 and any help would be appreciated.

I am shooting an Encore Pro Hunter 45/70 Katahdin (20" barrel).

If you'd feel better not posting loads, please PM me.
Thanks for any help.

kiddekop · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2009, 10:13:12 PM »

Quote from: Capt Gary on July 08, 2009, 08:55:14 AM

Does anyone have any experience with the Barnes 250 TSX in the 45/70. I'd really like some feedback on powders and results.
I just starting to load for the 45/70 and any help would be appreciated.

I am shooting an Encore Pro Hunter 45/70 Katahdin (20" barrel).

If you'd feel better not posting loads, please PM me.
Thanks for any help.

Contact Barnes they'll give you the info you need.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2009, 05:23:25 AM »

Barnes has load data on their website.

Tim

http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/load-data/data-458/

Old English · « **Reply #3 on:** July 12, 2009, 01:45:32 AM »

All I can say is WOW! A 45-70 shooting a 250gr bullet at 2600fps? That sounds like something I would like to try. Wonder what the terminal performance is like on deer or hogs?

mitchell · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2009, 02:30:15 PM »

ive been looking for these anybody know where to get some, sounds like a fun deer round 2400 foot lbs of energy at 100 yards sounds like fun

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2009, 02:43:08 PM »

Quote

where to get some

http://reloadinginternational.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3_698_50&products_id=276

mitchell · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2009, 02:47:08 PM »

wow a buck a pop!!! hope their worth it i'm ordering some tonight

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2009, 02:48:24 PM »

A little cheaper at Grafs and $4.50 shipping.

Tim

http://www.grafs.com/product/225181

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2009, 02:50:50 PM »

Even less at Midsouth... http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0003545841

BBF · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2009, 06:08:42 AM »

to each his own, somehow shooting a 45-70 with a very light for caliber bullet just doesn't have the right ring for me. $:-\$

teddy12b · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2009, 06:19:42 AM »

I'm interested in reading about how well these shoot especially in the katahdin barrel.

Quote from: BBF on July 16, 2009, 06:08:42 AM

to each his own, somehow shooting a 45-70 with a very light for caliber bullet just doesn't have the right ring for me. $:-\$

The advantage is getting the wider bullet, but also getting a flatter trajectory, and also getting the best game performance using the best hunting ever designed. I could see this bullet stretching out what a 45/70 can do.

BBF · « **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2009, 08:13:37 AM »

ok teddy
Now if I was interested in that I would be looking into a very pointy protected tip hollow point with a boat tail butt to boot

in the 450 gr plus design, which doesnt exist as yet as far as I know.
As written before, to each his own.

teddy12b · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2009, 08:19:48 AM »

I understand what you're saying and you're right. To each their own. Their a lot of guys who like the heaviest bullet they can get and they're right for doing so. I was just trying to point out the advantage I could see in what he's trying to get setup with the lighter bullet. I used to not like the idea of lighter bullets in a 45/70 because it just didn't seem right, but it's still a 250gr bullet and that's more than I can get in my 30-06.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2009, 12:11:13 AM »

a properly sighted in 4570 with 405s and a guy that knows his gun is a 200 yard gun. Personaly i wouldnt give up the pentration I get with heavy bullets for a slightly flatter shooting load. I just shoot my gun enough to know where it hits at differnt ranges. Keep in mind that the buffalo were almost made extinct by guns like the 4570 shooting heavy cast bullets. I would also have to doubt your going to get guilt edged accuracy from those light bullets. most 4570s have a barrel that got a relitively fast twist to stablize longer bullets. Another thing that that bullet will be really lacking in is sectional density which is going to make it a pour pentrator and also insure that its not going to work well at long range

BBF · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2009, 09:18:21 AM »

As a lay person methinks Nosler made a bullet that has an explosive front portion and relies on the back to achieve at least a modicum of penetration with a bullet that shoots flat( an oxymoron) for a 45-70 IMO)

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2009, 09:34:15 AM »

Quote from: BBF on July 17, 2009, 09:18:21 AM

As a lay person methinks Nosler made a bullet that has an explosive front portion and relies on the back to achieve at least a modicum of penetration with a bullet that shoots flat( an oxymoron) for a 45-70 IMO)

True, the protected point partition, but Nosler has discontinued it now. $:-\$ Cabelas has it on closeout sale now for $48 a box.

Tim

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp;jsessionid=40FTICSEZ3LDJLAQBBISCOVMCAEFEIWE?id=0070857213950a&navCount=0&podId=0070857&parentId=cat603790&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=summersale_shooting-sumemrsale-door&catalogCode=OG&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat603790&_requestid=38304

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 18, 2009, 11:18:35 PM »

The barnes 300gr Tipped TSX would be a good one in your encore. This is one in a 458x2".

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:55:18 AM »

heck for the price of a box of those fancy bullets a guy could by a mold and cast his own. Just about every animal on earth has been taken with a 4570 using cast bullets.

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #18 on:** July 19, 2009, 04:54:13 AM »

Quote from: Thebear_78 on July 18, 2009, 11:18:35 PM

The barnes 300gr Tipped TSX would be a good one in your encore. This is one in a 458x2".

That certainly looks like an interesting bullet for the 45/70 if you want to extend the range a bit. I believe that the Barnes bullets need about 1,800 ft/sec to reliably expand. Will this bullet have 1,800+ ft/sec of impact velocity at extended range? Assuming Marlin power levels, would this bullet make a 300 yd shooter out of a 200 yd rifle? Naturally, we will also assume that sufficient accuracy is capable at this range.

Anyone have any idea about this?

Davemuzz · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2009, 07:33:15 AM »

FWIW, and just an observation, but I'm surprised that Barnes list only 2 powders for their 250 gr. 45-70 load. VV-N120 and AA-1680.

Neither one of these powders "hang out" in my powder cabinet. Not that I have all powders and all calibers, but I just find it interesting.

Dave

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2009, 11:33:08 AM »

Barnes says you can use the 250 x bullet data from the old manual, too.

kiddekop · « **Reply #21 on:** July 21, 2009, 02:02:42 PM »

Quote from: BBF on July 16, 2009, 06:08:42 AM

to each his own, somehow shooting a 45-70 with a very light for caliber bullet just doesn't have the right ring for me. $:-\$

www.midwayusa.com 20 4 $18.99

BBF · « **Reply #22 on:** July 22, 2009, 07:32:54 AM »

Cast bullets don't look nearly as "kewl" as those racy blue tippers.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #23 on:** July 22, 2009, 12:22:42 PM »

I dunno.....I think anything lead that's bigger 'n 400 grains travelin over 1800fps looks pretty cool. As long as I'm watchin it goin away from me.

EsoxLucius · « **Reply #24 on:** July 27, 2009, 06:49:20 AM »

While one may be able to start a 250 grain Barnes out at 2600 fps, with a ballistic coefficient of .136 it will be quickly outpaced by heavier bullets started slower. If you want a 200 yard 45-70, 300 and even 350 grain flat nose bullets will suffice. I haven't been too impressed with the .458" Barnes 250 grain TSX; accuracy is elusive and when pushed fast it tends to lose its petals even on whitetails. A 300 grain Speer at 2350 fps is cheaper, has very good performance on game and is a 200 yard round.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #25 on:** July 27, 2009, 07:20:42 AM »

FWIW, I've been loading and shooting the Hornady flex tip 325 grain bullet. Now, in all fairness, to really get full "use" of this bullet it should be loaded to the max as that's where the shooter will benefit from full delivery of maximum downrange energy when compared to other bullets of even 350grain weight.

But, I've loaded 'em to shoot at 1700fps, and when zeroed at 200 yards the numbers look like this:

Range (yards)     Muzzle   50    100     200     300
Velocity (fps)     1700    1557 1426 1208 1061
Energy (ft.-lb.)     2085 1749 1467 1052 812
Trajectory (100 yd. zero)   -1.5     1 0 -15.8 -55.3

These are very accurate from my Marlin. But then.....so are Cast Performance 405 grain-ers.

So...why do I load and shoot them? Umm....because.

Dave

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 26, 2009, 06:02:42 PM »

When I first started loading I got some of those Barnes 250 and hated them, accuracy was awful, velocity loss downrange was worse. The only use I can see for them is to put a big exit wound in something close up.

You wanna shoot 300 yards with a 45-70? Get some cast 410 gr Saeco 21A's from western bullet and start practicing. It ain't hard....and it's fun! Plus they cost $12 for 50

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #27 on:** September 27, 2009, 04:30:48 AM »

Since I got my Marlin .45-70 in 2002 I’ve developed 18 or 19 different “keeper” loads for it and tested even more. The Barnes bullets have always intrigued me but other than chrono a few 300g XFN (not TSX-FN) bullets I have not used any. In no particular order, here’s why:

1.   The bullets are expensive, but no more so than the 350g North Forks I use.
2.   The idea of solid copper bullets in a tub magazine gives me the willies, not matter what Barnes says.
3.   The SD numbers are .170 and .204 for the 250g and 300g bullets respectively.
4.   The BC numbers are .136 and .163 for the 250g and 300g bullets respectively.
5.   At full power (250g/2609fps, 300g/2314fps, Barnes #4) they generate about as much recoil as a slower, heavier bullet (35-36fpe vs 42fpe for my 350g/2183fps loads).
6.   At full power the 250g loads have the most energy but fall behind the 350g load at 15 yards. At 100 yards its 2269fpe/2284fpe/2697fpe for the 250g/300g/350g respectively.
7.   At full power the retained energy at 200 yards is 1293fpe/1419fpe/1936fpe for the 250g/300g/350g respectively.
8.   At full power MPBR (Maximum Point Blank Range) zeroes for a 6” diameter target are 215 yards/202 yards/204 yards for the 250g/300g/350g respectively.
9.   At full power with MPBR zeroes the trajectories at 200 yards are -1.3”/-2.9”/-2.6” for the 250g/300g/350g respectively.
10.   At full power with MPBR zeroes the ballistcs at 300 yards are -21.2”/1165fps/754fpe, -25.4”/1169fps/909fpe and -22.3”/1579fps/1386fpe for the 250g/300g/350g respectively.

In short, I simply haven’t found a niche where the Barnes bullets give me something useful at a competitive price. For elk hunting they fall well behind the 350g bullets in terms of retained velocity and energy and for deer loads they are more expensive than necessary (I prefer the 300g Speer UCHP in that role). For plinker loads they are far to expensive – for the cost of 20 Barnes .458” TSX bullets I can load 120 cast plinkers.

Polish them up and drill a hole through them and I’ll bet they would make sparkly fishing sinkers, though.

(I say this even though I use TSX/TTSX/MRX in my .257 Roberts, 7mm RM, .308 Win, two .30-06’s and .300 WM – so I’m hardly what you would call biased against Barnes.)

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 27, 2009, 04:40:03 AM »

Mighty expensive fishing weight....

Davemuzz · « **Reply #29 on:** September 27, 2009, 06:49:34 AM »

I've loaded up the Barnes Triple-X 120gr. for my Savage action\Shilen barrel in 6.5 Swede. These bullets are exceptionally accurate and will simply give me one ragged hole at 100 yards. My load is 45.5gr. of RL22, with the bullet seated 30 thousands from the lands.

Now, I wouldn't suggest this load be used for plinkin at paper for kicks. This is a serious hunting bullet. I realize of course, it doesn't kill any deader than a Hornady SST.....but I couldn't get the SST's to give me groups like this. I shoot the SST's out of my 1915 Swedish Mauser. They give me 5" groups at 100 yards with low velocity varget loads and open sights. I love shootin that old mauser!!!!

But for whackin whitetails, the triple-X's do just fine. And I'll spend a bit extra for that kind of accuracy plus the penetration, peddle expansion, a quick kill is what these do. And that's worth another $.30 per bullet.

MHO

Dave