Author Topic: Hey dad, how much does a real cannon cost? (Read 2255 times)

parmamoon · « **on:** July 08, 2009, 04:50:30 PM »

Dad: “ I don’t know exactly, but I’m sure they’re very expensive. ”
Son: “ Are they more than four hundred and some dollars? ”
Dad: “ Much, much more. ”
Son: “ Can you build me a real cannon? ”
Dad: “ I’m sorry son, but real cannon barrels are made from metal, and all of my tools are for wood. ”
Son: “ Oh well” sigh “ Someday I am gonna buy a real cannon.”
Dad: “That’s nice son, while your at it, pick me up one too.”
Son: “ Why dad? Do you want a real cannon too? ”
Dad: “ Sure, it sounds like fun. ”

Fast forward a couple of months to December 2008 when my then 8 year old son Alex was looking over my shoulder as I perused the Black Powder section of a prominent pro RKBA auction site.

Son: “ Wutchya lookin for dad? ”
Dad: “ I’m just searching for a good deal son.”
Son: “ Whoa dad, look! I didn’t know they had cannons on here. Can I buy that one? ”
Dad: “ Well son, that cannon costs fifty five thousand dollars. Do you have that much? ”
Son: “ I have four hundred and some, can you lend me the rest? ”
Dad: “ Let’s see how much I got here…..twenty…twenty five….twenty seven dollars and 8 cents. ”
Son: “ Do we got enough dad? ”
Dad: “ Looks like, with shipping, were still a little over fifty five thousand short. ”
Son: “ Oh well. ” sighs
Son : “ How ‘bout that one dad? That one looks pretty good. ”
Dad: “ That one costs fourteen thousand dollars son.”
Son: “ There is one for only two two nine dollars and I have more than that. I want that one dad. ”
Dad: “ Says here that one is 8 inches long. Do you know how long that is? It’s about this long. ”
Son: “ That’s awful small. Did real Pirates have cannons that small? ”
Dad: “ Probably not.”
Son: “ Here goes a cannon for two four nine dad. How big is 24 inches dad? ”
Dad: “ It’s about this long son, but this auction is just for the barrel, you have to buy a carriage separate.”
Son: “ Hmmm that’ll do just fine.”
Son: “ How much is a carriage dad? Do I have enough left over to get one? Can I borrow the rest? ”
Dad: “ I don’t know, probably not, and NO. Now look son, I’m not on here to look at cannons.”
Son: “ Sorry dad, it’s just that I really, really, really want a cannon. ”
Dad: “ I know you do son, just keep saving up you money and someday you’ll have enough. ”
Son: “ I don’t think I’ll ever have enough.” sighs

Fast forward ten minutes

Son: “ Dad, do you remember how you said that you wanted a cannon? ”
Dad: “ Not really, that doesn’t ring any bells.”
Son: “ Sure you did dad. You said that you wanted a cannon and I should pick one up for both of us.”
Dad: “ Yeah I guess I did. How is it you remember that, but can’t remember where you put your shoes?
Son: “ I dunno. Anyhow, I was thinking you could buy the carriage and we could share the cannon.”
Dad: “ The reason that wont work son is that when a dad buys something that the mom doesn’t want, he
has to pay double. That means even if we could find a carriage for three or four hundred dollars,
it would cost me six to eight hundred to get it. Are you following me?
Son: “ No, not really, But maybe you could build the carriage, then you could own the carriage and I could
own the barrel.”
Dad: “ Son, I’ll tell you what, You go tell your mother that you want to spend three hundred of your own
dollars on a real cannon that shoots real cannon balls and that you want me to build a carriage for
it. If she says yes, then it’s fine by me. And son, may God have mercy on your soul.”

I don’t know how he pulled it off, but I’ll be d**ned if she didn’t say yes.

Last December I joined this board and started to read, and read, and read. I have had a great many questions answered without ever having posed them. Every time I visit this board I am reminded just how little I know about cannons. The Knowledge that I have acquired through the trials, tribulations and generosity of the members who have posted here is the kind of sound advice that a father can be confident in passing along to his sons.

For this, I want to extend my thanks to each and every one of you.

Honorary

Alex visually inspects his cannon prior to firing, July 4 2009

Fast forward to July 4 2009
Son: “ So dad, exactly how much do you think the wood costs to build a real Pirate Ship? ”

intoodeep · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2009, 04:59:09 PM »

Priceless story and photo. Thanks for sharing.

navygunner · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2009, 05:05:22 PM »

Aye!!! It be a pirate ship eh!!!! Thanks for a wonderful story.

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** July 08, 2009, 05:22:25 PM »

That's a great story and we all want to borrow the kid for our next purchase. I give out Kewpie dolls for sucessful cannon build projects that I like. I don't give them up just for acquisitions.

Alex displayed remarkable skill and craftiness in designing a means to acquire a cannon. His ability to manipulate both dad-easy and Mom a real challenge, are to be envied. For his steadfast tenacity in building up the understanding of others, his need for a cannon I award him a Kewpi Doll--Honorary.

Congratulations Alex, let see some smoke an fire!!!!

KABAR2 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2009, 05:25:25 PM »

by your story and the fact that the two of you are co-owners of a cannon I don't have to tell you,

Treasure this time he will grow up fast!

By the look on his face he can be a very serious lad, that's good! drum in the safety rules early

your son is the next generation of shooter everything positive you do now will stay with him for a lifetime.

Oh I almost forgot, great job on the carriage you sir are a craftsman.

Now start checking the classifieds in "The Wooden Boat Journal" a square rigger fit for a Pirate

come up for sale now and then, now that I think of it you do have wood working experience.......

building a Pirate ship could be a great father / son experiance

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2009, 05:30:59 PM »

By the way what are you doing August 8 and how far are you from Montana?

GGaskill · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2009, 06:31:48 PM »

NORTHERN Montana?

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2009, 08:17:46 PM »

That's a great looking little cannon. By clicking on the photo I was able to look at all of the photos you took.
Very impressive. Congrats on acquiring this heirloom.

dan610324 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2009, 09:34:41 PM »

thats what I call a story , and a real happy end .
it sure is a very beautiful cannon

Cannoneer · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2009, 11:15:06 PM »

Parmamoon,

I enjoyed your anecdote, and you've got a fine looking son, (your naval gun's not bad either).

Welcome to the forum!

subdjoe · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2009, 06:56:40 AM »

I have to ask - who got to fire the first round?

RocklockI · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2009, 07:07:55 AM »

he will really appericiate that cannon later on , being that it was a first gun and a father,son project .

it looks great . what caliber is it . has he given it a name like in 'master and comander'

...'sudden death' ....'jumping billy' .

i missed intercepting my son's first .22 when i found out a month later that he had pawned it .

welcome to the board a kewpi doll on your 2nd post .......wow.

GGaskill · « **Reply #12 on:** July 09, 2009, 11:38:22 AM »

Son: “ So dad, exactly how much do you think the wood costs to build a real Pirate Ship? ”

Since the gun is one fifth scale, at least you will only have to build a one fifth scale ship.

And add about nine more cannon. That sounds like a deal; tell your son that when he has assembled the ten guns needed for the ship, you will start work on the ship.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2009, 11:40:21 AM »

parmamoon,

Your story reminded me of an old Calvin & Hobbs cartoon.......

Calvin, Dad your over 21 right?

Dad, Yes son,

Calvin, Then you can buy explosives can't you?

brokenpole · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2009, 11:44:32 AM »

It is just my himble opinion sir but if you don't take that and send it to Readers Digest and a few other magazines I think you are missing out on what could be a couple bucks to get you started in that pirate ship (by the way...how many R's in RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...answer...all of them).

That is one neat story and one fine looking cannon. Normally I would say that getting a young person addicted would be a bad thing. But I think in this case we can definitly make an exception

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2009, 12:26:15 PM »

What was the website of the auction.
I think I just found my new winter project.
Oh great story.

parmamoon · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2009, 12:33:05 PM »

Thanks for all of those great replies and the very warm welcome. I am honored to be the father of Kewpie Award recipient even with the unconventional interpretation of the term " crafty ". Unfortunately, we wont be making the trek to Montana as I am currently stuck in the Great Lakes State of Unemployment and Depression. But I know you guys will take lots of pics and videos that I will undoubtedly watch over and over again.

It's safe to say that I probably wont be building any ships in the near future, however, I am contemplating another cannon project. As a general rule, if I am making a part that requires a good deal of setup time and/or multiple operations I make 1 or 2 extra for "just in case".
The 2.5" x 4" piece of 1/2" thick steel that I got from my FIL was just large enough to get 2 firing locks out of, as was the 1/8" shim plate that I cut the bracket from. And then there is the musket nipple. I couldn't justify the shipping for just 1. Then there is all those extra pulley wheels and a couple extra blocks that I made, it sure would be a shame for them to go to waste.

Not to mention that I had to buy a new die and larger handles, a couple of plug taps, a bottom tap, and so on. It really seems rather foolish to NOT build another one.
I'll just have to let Alex explain it to his mom.

Alex shot his cannon 4 times last Saturday using a 90' lanyard and ducking behind cover. Next time we'll shorten it to 10' and lose the cover. He did all the worming, sponging, and ramming ( safety ram ) while I served the vent and dropped in the foil charge and 6 oz cannon ball sinker. Mom did her best to get fire and smoke on film with her still camera/telephoto lens set on the hood of my truck while she ducked behind it and used the camera remote. You can see the pics if you click the pic in the first post then click on the album. The target was a box packed with catalogs and phone books. Forgot to add, bore is 1.265

Double D · « **Reply #17 on:** July 09, 2009, 01:20:21 PM »

You got some great pictures, why don't some of the individual phots showing the detail if the build. You did some beautiful work and you should show it to us!

parmamoon · « **Reply #18 on:** July 10, 2009, 09:09:57 AM »

Those compliments really do mean a whole lot more coming from you guys that anyone else.
I didn't take any pics during the build. If your interested, I could put something together along the lines of a "blooper" presentation from the contents of my scrap box that illustrates what not to do. And I have a couple of the specialized jigs laying around that let me build the firing lock with just a drill press and a couple of angle grinders if you want to see them.

mcwoodduck, as for the auction on the barrel, I think it was a one time deal. But, you should look at the naval barrel that Dom offers, it's a real beauty.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2009, 09:49:33 AM »

Quote from: parmamoon on July 10, 2009, 09:09:57 AM

If your interested, I could put something together along the lines of a "blooper" presentation from the contents of my scrap box that illustrates what not to do. And I have a couple of the specialized jigs laying around that let me build the firing lock with just a drill press and a couple of angle grinders if you want to see them.

Sure Parmamoon, go ahead and post them, I'd enjoy looking at the pics.

1Southpaw · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2009, 09:48:04 AM »

Excellent wood working skills . Nice dovetail on the breech elevation block. Wonderful family project with son .

parmamoon · « **Reply #21 on:** July 14, 2009, 05:30:43 PM »

Thanks 1Southpaw, I borrowed that detail from the guns on the Constitution. Thanks to some folks who were kind enough to post HQ pictures on the web, I was able figure out a few of the missing details from the build plans.

This was the main working plan.

This was the plan from which I borrowed the Transom and Bumper detail.

As I poured through all of the pics I could find of period guns, I found that the sizes of the quoins seemed to vary greatly, even among guns that appeared otherwise identical. I experimented with a couple of different sizes before settling on the final one.

The original design shows a dado cut into the bed where it rests on the rod that supports the front. I found that on this carriage, the weight of the breech on the quoin caused the bed to tip up in the front and lift off of the rod thus freeing the bed to move fore and aft allowing it to fall off the axletree. By skewing the dado cut I was able to counter the lifting problem, and by locating the bolster block flush with the rear of the axletree and adding the tab that extends downward from the rear of the bolster block, the bed is effectively locked in place until the rear is lifted and the front slid forward off of the rod.

This picture shows two modified versions next to the "per print" version (minus the quoin and bolster block).

KABAR2 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 14, 2009, 05:57:14 PM »

parmamoon

Your photos speak volumes! I like the ingenuity of your fixtures, the use of the sander/grinder, the hand grinder & belt sander were self explanatory.

you've utilized the K.I.S.S. system in their usage & obtained excellent results.

Allen <><

parmamoon · « **Reply #23 on:** July 14, 2009, 06:36:01 PM »

Thanks KABAR2, I am especially proud of that Makita industrial 7" grinder/sander, as it's previous owner obviously tried to remedy the " trigger stuck in ON position" with some kind of hammer or such. He/she mangled the trigger and handle around it pretty good then tossed it into a dumpster at a construction site. Imagine how elated I was to rescue it along with some nice hardwood scraps. $6 in new brushes and one $3 plug strip later I'm saving the planet.

Double D · « **Reply #24 on:** July 14, 2009, 06:51:22 PM »

For those of you who haven't figured it out yet, if you click on parmamoons pictures it will take you to a slide show in his photobucket account.

I usually skip such things. I would rather see the picture posted right here. it's easier also on the guys who are less computer skilled to just open a post and see the picture, than to figure out how topen the link and thefigure our how to operate the slideshow. But if you skip them this time you ae going to miss a whole bunch of neat stuff,

Cannoneer · « **Reply #25 on:** July 14, 2009, 08:37:01 PM »

When I click on a pic, I keep getting Photobucket site maintenance; will try again later.

carronader · « **Reply #26 on:** July 15, 2009, 04:44:16 AM »

Don't be forgetting the prettiest,most curvaceous,wickedest piece of ordnance of them all.........the carronade of course.Couple of drawings for you to look at,maybe consider for future project,threw in standard ship's gun as well.Trying to get in before Dan (the mad swede)tries to convert you to his beloved ugly guns.

Victor3 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 15, 2009, 04:49:40 AM »

"Trying to get in before Dan (the mad swede)tries to convert you to his beloved ugly guns."

Has anyone ever seen such blatant cruelty?

carronader · « **Reply #28 on:** July 15, 2009, 05:15:29 AM »

And..............I was too far gone but there is still time for you before you get in too deep.I was quite happy messing around with my cannons and catapults,and then I found this site.You get so much help,ideas and information just from sitting on the sidelines in here that your interest WILL become an addiction.
I hope your investment in your son pays dividends,hand skills and honest sweat are more than a match for all these city slickers with their concepts of financial wizardry.(damn fools almost took us all down ) There is so much to learn about history,heritage,metal,wood,machinery in cannons,not to mention fun ,is it any surprise it can hook you.I put up a photo of (some) of my stuff to give you an idea ,and I am isolated over here,god knows how bad it would be if I was in the US of A.

parmamoon · « **Reply #29 on:** July 15, 2009, 05:30:39 AM »

Thanks for the plans carronader, they will be added to my archive. I don't think I've ever see a cannon that is truly ugly, but if I ever do, I bet it will be made by Glock.

Sorry DD, I didn't want to over load the thread with pics as I still recall my own dial-up woes. But here's the pics with a brief explanation.

Here was my first attempt at the transom. It would have fit pretty good if I would have beveled the side in the right direction. The clamp is on the breech side in the pics.

The cheek cuts on these 3 tongues were slightly deep. I could have adjusted the shoulder cut, but that would have thrown the piece out of scale, and I was way too angry at myself to let me get off that easy, into the scrap box they go, never mind that the two on the right are already notched out for the axletrees.

The bumper on the left had what I would describe as a "paint grade" fit. The one on the right fit nice and tight, but after marking out the arc on the front, I thought it looked a bit anemic. To the scrap box with these and I used a wider board for the third attempt.

This pic pretty much explains itself. The lessons learned with the wheels were 1) Speed-Boar type paddle/spade bits will not drill a straight hole through 4/4 oak, even on a drill press. Forstner bits are the ticket. 2) circle cutting jigs for my band saw don't work well with thick lumber, but do work well with the belt sander.

This is how I made the firing lock. The first pic shows how I laid it out on a chunk of 1/2" steel. First I drilled the holes in blue to 3/16" dia. Then I used a thin cutoff wheel on the 4.5" angle grinder to cut the lines in red. Next, I ground to the black lines with the 7" and the makeshift table. Then I changed to a worn grinding wheel on the 4.5" and mounted it on some blocks and using a 3/16 steel dowel pin as a pivot, I ground the string groove. Last step is to drill the string hole and counter bore for the knot shown in green. The last pic shows the mounting bracket before being bent and having the mounting holes and string hole in the tail drilled.

This shows the basic steps for making the pulley blocks. The piece with the crooked mortise on the bottom left was the result of wood chips built up between the fence and the workpiece, the rest are just extra parts.

This last pic tells the story of how I bought 2 fishing rod holders with the intentions of making them into a worm. They come with an O.D. of 1.75". I need them to be 1.25". The blue vise in the back is the one I had to buy to replace the silver one in the front after I used that 1/2" galv. pipe to gain leverage on the handle of it's now broken screw.