Knight 1:20 .45 cal SABOTLESS Part 2

[Busta]

I got out with the .45 Disc 1:20 for some more sabotless shooting this evening. I am pretty much out of .452" bullets except to XTP's, and need to get some more of the 300 gr SST's that shot that one hole group the first time out at 50 yards.



Tonight was pretty much the same as yesterday, only 80 degrees today, but the wind was still gusting from R to L. I just can't believe the velocities I am getting with the 300 gr XTP/MAG over 120 gr of Blackhorn 209. With the Federal 209A and Winchester W209 primers, I am getting 2200+ FPS. I know guns that can't get that with a 200 gr bullet and a magnum charge of 777.

I will cut to the chase, I was mainly testing different primers at the 120 gr load level, primers do make a difference. I did have some bullets wander out of the groups, and even had 2 keyhole. They were bullets that were a hair smaller in diameter, and basically slid onto the charge with the range rod. I don't know if these bullets are the right weight and length, but the 300 SST seemed to be perfect last time.

I will just post the pics, the accuracy was not to bad on most loads, but could use some overall improvement. Once I figure out which bullet I will be using, then I will work on the accuracy. This was a brand new jug of Blackhorn 209 Lot# 0107098. I was just loading and shooting, no barrel cooling or swabbing the entire time. All bullets were seated on top of a .466" x .065" card wad. This probably contributed to the much faster velocities than I achieved last time with the leaky .50 cal felt bore buttons. One problem I did have was, every primer but one needed the bolt pulled to remove it from the NFPJ adapter. I was sure glad I had done the spring loaded bolt pin conversion. It may be easier to use the red FPJ's for this type of shooting, and I may just try that next time. This may be especially so when in a hunting situation, nobody wants to be messing around with the bolt for a follow up shot.










I guess I should go find out what bullets those smokeless guys are shooting in their sabotless .45's. Wonder what bullet hold up best at 2200+ FPS? I know one thing, this is a whole lot more fun than waiting around for a barrel to cool. 

Here is Part 1:
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,176569.0.html

[rangerwillie]

those sst's and xtp/mags have a thicker jacket, so maybe better luck with a thinner jacketed regular xtp or some other?

interesting info nonetheless

[flmason]

Hey Busta, wild!

So how can I tell if a gun is acceptable for BH209? Have to admit, when I recently purchased an 1958 Remington repro, I was hoping I could find a pistol powder with the characteristics of BH209, LOL!

Anyway, most makers I know of don't even really seem to say "BP subs are OK".  Now wanting to umm... blow my face off, LOL!... what's the story on using BH209? Only for clearly approved guns?

Man, the group at the top, sweet. 

[Busta]

flmason,

Blackhorn 209 is a Black Powder SUBSTITUTE. It creates pressures very similar to Triple Se7en loose powder.

http://www.blackhorn209.com/

http://www.blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/brochure.pdf

Basically any modern 209 rifle with an enclosed 209 primer pocket, that allows the breech/block/bolt to lock up tightly on the primer. This powder is not for #11 caps, Musket caps, any of the small rifle/pistol primer conversions, or the 209 plunger action type rifles.

Some production rifles that I know work would include.

Knight: Disc Extreme, Elite, KP1, Vision, Shadow.
T/C: Encore/Pro/Endeaver, Omega, Triumph.
CVA: Accura, Optima/Pro/Elite.
Traditions: Pursuit/LT/Pro/II.
H&R/NEF Huntsman/Sidekick with aftermarket Metrics Unlimited breech plug.
Savage: ML10II.

The Rossi and MDM tip-up rifles should probably both work as well?

The Knight KRB7 is not reliable, the breech block has just a little too much play, and therefore loses it's pressure seal at ignition. For Blackhorn to work properly, you need Pressure, Heat, and Time. If any one of those is missing, you will get hang-fires, or even misfires occasionally. This is also why you need the HOTTER 209 shotshell primers for sure-fire ignition, not the special 209 muzzleloading primers. If the primer is allowed to move rearward in the primer pocket, then you lose both heat and pressure. It is also better to have a .031" to .040" flash hole for ignition.

Extremely cold air, loose breech blocks/primers, and small flash holes are the enemy. Some would say loose bullets as well, but I know that is not the case in every instance. I have shot some bullets successfully that nearly slid down to the charge with just the weight of the range rod.

[coop2564]

Busta,
I have been thinking of trying the FPB's in my .50 omega and huntsman due to the heat down here makes shooting sabots a real pain. I see u have been using a wad what's your thoughts in using one? Seems to me with the design of the FPB it probably wouldnt help have you tried both ways with and with out with this bullet?

[Busta]

Busta,
I have been thinking of trying the FPB's in my .50 omega and huntsman due to the heat down here makes shooting sabots a real pain. I see u have been using a wad what's your thoughts in using one? Seems to me with the design of the FPB it probably wouldnt help have you tried both ways with and with out with this bullet?

Coop,

No, I haven't ever tried the wads with the FPB, IMO it couldn't do anything to improve accuracy, but I could be wrong? Those FPB's really shine in my Huntsman, have a few one hole groups with those. That heat even way up here is hell on sabots. When I shoot sabotless, I use a wad on the flat-based bullets.

[grouse]

Not buying sabots sure saves some cash.