338 Federal should be about dead by now

[Harry Snippe]

I must confess I have paid scant attention to the the .338 federal. But the other day I did look at a marlin with aa 24 in" barrel and half mag. My favorite style of Marlin.  I felt the specks on the cartridge came close to the old .348, and it was a dandy heavy cover rifle, also close to the .358 win. another dandy heavy cover rifle, but both are now obsolete..   I toy with the idea of the .338, but decided my 99 in .358 would have to do.. I have little opportunity to use a really heavy cover rifle in my area.
But like the rest, I hope it survives, but I have my doubts... 

The 358 W . is still going and will continue , even if winchester quits loading cartridges for it . then too if this cartridge too is a thing of the past , why is Ruger and Browning still building rifles for it . Your Savage 99 is more than just a close range bush gun .Up here the 358 W is living and going well in mixed farm and bush country .there is a cult of 358 W reloaders that use this round in Orlllia North in Ontario, who reload , and it is very rare to see a rifle used in 358. If one is turned in , it goes just as quickly .
I see the 338 F going the same . It has it's niche and as long as there is 338 bullets and 308 brass people will be loading cartridges for it .   
Federal may be the only firm loading and selling Ammo , but loading your own brings the price of ammo with in every ones needs and @ 2500FPS it sure goes it's job.Shot a doe with a left shoulder shot . It broke the leg bone mushed the organs then broke the last rib going though and out the right side .That was just a bit over a hundred yards and am sure the round still has a lot more to offer a bigger game animal.

(Some people might wonder why you bought that fancy new fishing lure , while theirs always does the job , until they see so many fish caught in the frying pan.)

[yooper77]

I personnally don't believe that anybody really need 3000+ fps. Seems like a lot of wasted powder. If you are having to make shots at a constant 350 yard plus range than I think you need to learn to be a little quieter and get closer. A deer or elk is not going to know the difference betwen 500 fps, once you get above about 1800 fps, if you put a good shot on it. If all I ever get out of my .338 federal is 2500 fps yet I can get 35 or 40 more loads out of a can of powder than I will be thrilled.

I agree with you jumpsteady.

I like Weatherby’s ballistic comparison.  My 338-6 A-Square isn’t far behind the 340 Weatherby Magnum.  Does it get 3000FPS, Nope, Do I need 3000FPS, Nope!

http://www.weatherby.com/product/ammunition/ballistic?ammo1=.340+Wby.&ammo2=.338-06+A-Square&compare=Compare&compare=Compare

The 338 Federal and 358 Winchester are here to stay.

yooper77

[jumpsteady]

I personnally don't believe that anybody really need 3000+ fps. Seems like a lot of wasted powder. If you are having to make shots at a constant 350 yard plus range than I think you need to learn to be a little quieter and get closer. A deer or elk is not going to know the difference betwen 500 fps, once you get above about 1800 fps, if you put a good shot on it. If all I ever get out of my .338 federal is 2500 fps yet I can get 35 or 40 more loads out of a can of powder than I will be thrilled.

I agree with you jumpsteady.

I like Weatherby’s ballistic comparison.  My 338-6 A-Square isn’t far behind the 340 Weatherby Magnum.  Does it get 3000FPS, Nope, Do I need 3000FPS, Nope!

http://www.weatherby.com/product/ammunition/ballistic?ammo1=.340+Wby.&ammo2=.338-06+A-Square&compare=Compare&compare=Compare

The 338 Federal and 358 Winchester are here to stay.

yooper77

Glad somebody else sees it the same way that I do.

[Tonk]

Well Gent's I like any .338 caliber!!!...... I myself as I recollect, have a couple bolt guns in a .338 Winmag, a wildcat in the .338/300Ultra, a .338/06 too and I almost forgot the Bar down in the vault in .338 Win mag.
The caliber is just awesome on big game animals such as the bull elk.
I can't tell you if the .338 Federal will last forever but I am positive it wlll be around for awhile. I too would like to see one in a Savage 99 model. Hat's off to the .338 cal. period.

[Harry Snippe]

What burns me here abit to to see folks comparing the 338 Federal to that of the big mags . Compare the cartridge to the 308 ME 338Marlin, 358, 356, or even the 308 W
So compare the BMW to a Mack truck. and is indeed plain to see your not going to haul as much gravel.

First kill At 120 Yards = one deer dead, one shot to the right front shoulder, and out just in front of the left hip. No real meat damage , but the organs inside pulp. This is in thick eastern woods mind you , not a 750 yrd accross the mountain Elk shot .
For what Federal brought this round to do , it will perform the task.

[jumpsteady]

What burns me here abit to to see folks comparing the 338 Federal to that of the big mags . Compare the cartridge to the 308 ME 338Marlin, 358, 356, or even the 308 W
So compare the BMW to a Mack truck. and is indeed plain to see your not going to haul as much gravel.

First kill At 120 Yards = one deer dead, one shot to the right front shoulder, and out just in front of the left hip. No real meat damage , but the organs inside pulp. This is in thick eastern woods mind you , not a 750 yrd accross the mountain Elk shot .
For what Federal brought this round to do , it will perform the task.

That is why I bought the .338 federal. I didn't need a big mag to do what I wanted to do. Plus I could be a little different. I don't personally know anybody else that has one.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  It is nice to see the .338 Fed. is selling in some parts of the country... Here in my local, I don't know of a soul that owns one. Of course this is open country, not brush country. When I visit my Dad later this month, I will check with the big gun shops and see how it is selling..... Even in that country where woods shooting is common, the most popular rifle is the Rem. pump in .30-06.  I would say second is the same cal. in a bolt. I was aware that Browning still made the BLR in .358, but the fact that Ruger still is came as a surprise... Still when one looks at the line of Win. big bores, how many of them are still with us??? The trouble seems to be once the round or rifle is dropped, everyone says, oh, I should have bought one!!!!!

[yooper77]

It is nice to see the .338 Fed. is selling in some parts of the country... Here in my local, I don't know of a soul that owns one. Of course this is open country, not brush country. When I visit my Dad later this month, I will check with the big gun shops and see how it is selling..... Even in that country where woods shooting is common, the most popular rifle is the Rem. pump in .30-06.  I would say second is the same cal. in a bolt. I was aware that Browning still made the BLR in .358, but the fact that Ruger still is came as a surprise... Still when one looks at the line of Win. big bores, how many of them are still with us??? The trouble seems to be once the round or rifle is dropped, everyone says, oh, I should have bought one!!!!!

The 338 Federal shines for long range shooting as all cartridges using 338 caliber’s high ballistic coefficients bullets.

I am betting it is selling all over, because a lot of firearms purchases are off the internet, so checking the sales at local big gun shops will not be accurate at all.

Yep the 338 Federal & 338-06 A-Square are here to stay and are cartridges that just makes perfect sense.  308 Winchester & 30-06 Springfield brass and 338 caliber bullets are available everywhere.  They both use less powder than the big magnums, yet delivers all the power needed for large big game.

yooper77

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

    Maybe the little .338 shines as a long range cartridge in your part of the country, but not in Wyoming....

[yooper77]

  Maybe the little .338 shines as a long range cartridge in your part of the country, but not in Wyoming....

Well it sure is funny how you are able to speak for every rifle owner in the state of Wyoming?

The little .338 might not stand as tall as the other .338 Magnums, but it surly packed a big wallop.  This is something that cannot be ignored.

yooper77

[billy_56081]

The 338 federal, no matter how much some folks want it to suceed is doomed to fail. It was nothing but a sales gimmick. It feels a niche so dam small that it will not exist in 10 years. At longer ranges the 308 or 7mm-08 kick its butt, at closer ranges the 358 win, which is dam near dead stomps it onto a grease spot. Whoever came up with a +30 cal cartridge as a seller was an idiot.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  77, I don't speak for every gun owner in Wy. Never said I did, but I visit with shooters all over the state, visit gunshops, talk with folks who hunt and shoot. I shoot a little everyday, and have an interest in all firearms. So for your information, I do get around this state quite a bit, so far I have not talked with one hunter or shooter in the state that has one of the rifles. I am sure some have bought them and like them.  I checked the speed of this little round with a Speer 225 it was listed at just over 2400fps. A fine speed for a small case, but to call it a long range round when with a 3 inch high sight in at 100 and a drop of more than three feet at 400 is not long range material in my book.. Maybe to you  it is but certain not to experience long range  riflemen....

[yooper77]

77, I don't speak for every gun owner in Wy. Never said I did, but I visit with shooters all over the state, visit gunshops, talk with folks who hunt and shoot. I shoot a little everyday, and have an interest in all firearms. So for your information, I do get around this state quite a bit, so far I have not talked with one hunter or shooter in the state that has one of the rifles. I am sure some have bought them and like them.  I checked the speed of this little round with a Speer 225 it was listed at just over 2400fps. A fine speed for a small case, but to call it a long range round when with a 3 inch high sight in at 100 and a drop of more than three feet at 400 is not long range material in my book.. Maybe to you  it is but certain not to experience long range  riflemen....

400 yards, is pushing it for any big game cartridge in my opinion, unless you are after varmints then 400 yards is fine.  I have hunted out west, New Mexico, North Dakota, and yes Wyoming and I have never had a need to take a shot longer than 300 yards after Antelope, Deer or Elk.  I have the experience which gives me the ability to stalk closer to big game.

I like this article for the 338 Federal, good info.  Of course actual field conditions and results vary.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/338_federal_first_look.htm

yooper77

[Drilling Man]

  It seems many folks these days are shifting from "hunting" mode to "sniper" mode.  I was watching a so called hunting show the other day, and these idiots were shooting bears at 700 yards.  They then didn't go over there for quite a while, "just in case"...  What idiots!

  DM

[AtlLaw]

I was watching a so called hunting show the other day, and these idiots were shooting bears at 700 yards.

I saw that show last week.  It seems long range shooting is the premise of the series.  I didn't like it one bit.     It will give people who have no business shooting at those ranges the idea it is no big thing with the right equipment.  Which, of course, the sponsor just happens to sell.   

Now I am not, and would never, tell people like Sourdough he shouldn't be shooting game at that range.  Look what he does to prepare!  And he doesn't shoot a 338 Federal!   

Please note how I managed to get on topic...    

[Drilling Man]

  Bottom line is, it's no longer hunting, it's "snipeing"!

  DM

[jumpsteady]

So could we say that we are "snipe hunting"?

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  Long range shooting has deep roots in America and our history.. The most famous of the the long rg. shooters were the old buffalo hunters. But before those guys, a man named Tim Murphy is credited with killing a British general in the Revolutionary War at some 300 yards with his Pennsylvania Rifle..  The shot is credited with being the turning point in the War. It gave the Americans the boost we needed to hold on and win the war. Although I have done it many times, shooting game at 100 yards with a modern rifle takes very little skill. And as far as "hunting" most of the hunting done to day is from a tree stand or blind...It is ok, because that is the most effective way to be successful in todays world of whitetail deer hunting... And that is what most folks hunt. But real long range boys put more time, money, effort, skill, and pratice in their sport than 95 percent of the hunters today...It is an art just like any fine skill. Those who can do, those who dont complain...

[nomosendero]

  Bottom line is, it's no longer hunting, it's "snipeing"!

  DM

If in reference to 700 yard Bears, I don't think that is the way to do it with that animal either.

[jumpsteady]

Look here, its almost a year and a half later and the .338 Federal still isn't dead. Looks like someone may have spoken to soon.

[anweis]

Look here, its almost a year and a half later and the .338 Federal still isn't dead. Looks like someone may have spoken to soon.

I have a Sako 85 Stainless .338 Fed with fancy French walnut stock, Talley mounts and rings, and a Zeiss Conquest scope (3-9x40 #20 reticule). The rifle is light, points nicely, it is well balanced, and i love shooting it. This particular rifle kicks less than several 30-06 i tried. The trigger is the best in the world, better than my Timneys. 2.5 punds and super crisp. The instant i think "shoot" somehow the rifle shoots, i don't feel any weight or creep on the trigger finger.
I use Nosler Custom brass, RL 15 powder (max charge), and Hornady 200 grain bullets. The rifle shoots 5 shots into 1.5" at 200 yards with little bullet drop. The barrel is so perfect that it never fouls with copper and it takes only 3 patches on a jag to clean. It only needs one fouling shot to settle and group. 
In October i hunted heavy brush for deer. Nice weather, so i took the Sako. All the leaves were still up. I found a doe in a bedding area of heavy brush, at 40-50 yards. I could barely see her, mostly the hooves, she was walking slowly, i had 1 second to aim and shoot, i shot through brush, and she dissapeared. She was hit in the neck and had dropped on the spot. I looked for bullet impact in the area (this was a narrow steep ravine). After hitting the deer the bullet hit a 5" diameter tree and turned it into a 2" diameter tree.  I would be confident shooting bear, moose, elk, or anyhting lese for that matter with this cartridge. 

You guys fret too much about calibers. If i had a .338-06 or 8mm or .358, or .35 Rem, or 30-06 or... .303 or .300 Savage in a rifle that i liked, i would use that.  They kill.  Heck, people tell me that my 6mm Rem is an open country varmint rifle in a caliber that should have died, but i use it in heavy cover on deer and black bear and my friend shot a huge elk with it. I have it set for 100 gr. round nosed bullets at a slooow 2,650 fps. But, that rifle is less that 7 pounds with the scope, it fits me like a glove, and is lightning fast to aim and shoot. No animal shot with it has ever traveled more than 30-40 yards. The elk, shot in the heart/lungs, went about 25.   


I don't care about the rest of the world. My .338 Federal is here to stay.   

[anweis]

Long range shooting has deep roots in America and our history.. The most famous of the the long rg. shooters were the old buffalo hunters. But before those guys, a man named Tim Murphy is credited with killing a British general in the Revolutionary War at some 300 yards with his Pennsylvania Rifle..  The shot is credited with being the turning point in the War. It gave the Americans the boost we needed to hold on and win the war. Although I have done it many times, shooting game at 100 yards with a modern rifle takes very little skill. And as far as "hunting" most of the hunting done to day is from a tree stand or blind...It is ok, because that is the most effective way to be successful in todays world of whitetail deer hunting... And that is what most folks hunt. But real long range boys put more time, money, effort, skill, and pratice in their sport than 95 percent of the hunters today...It is an art just like any fine skill. Those who can do, those who dont complain...

You got this wrong. The buffalo hunters were not hunters at all. They just killed for the market.
Nobody is complaining here about shooting skills.
If i get a 20 mm rilfe with a computerized 40x72 scope and satellite assisted software i can shoot animals at 2 miles away. Is that still hunting?  We get hunting permits, remember?
The issue is not about shooting skills, the issue is about hunting ethics and hunting skills, which the so called long range hunters often don't have. 
In fact, anyone can unload a shooting bench and a .50 BMG and shoot an elk at 800 yards. Any lazy idiot can do that. It takes a bit more than what they are doing to actually hunt. To find animals, to decide which shot to take or to pass,etc.
     

[nomosendero]

I saw that Bear Hunt as well & did not think much of it. That being said, this is not an ethics form & some feel 400 yds. under any conditions is wrong, while many can't hit anything at 100 yds.
If this turns into one of those goofy "sniping vs shooting forums", I will lock it.

Now back to the 338 Fed. please.

[moorepower]

I would think it would excel with Elk and Moose. If a .30-06 works for big bear, so would the .338 federal. I don't have one, but I have a clip fed 99 in .243, that could easily be rebored to .338 federal. Yes the .338-06 has more energy, but you can always find a bigger mouse trap.

[Drilling Man]

I would think it would excel with Elk and Moose. If a .30-06 works for big bear, so would the .338 federal. I don't have one, but I have a clip fed 99 in .243, that could easily be rebored to .338 federal. Yes the .338-06 has more energy, but you can always find a bigger mouse trap.

  It's NOT the extra energy of the .338-06 that makes it better for big bears, it's the fact that it drives heavy bullets to acceptable speeds, and that makes it MUCH better.

  The 30-06 200NP will expand and penetrate better than the 200 .338's out of a federal too.

  I don't much care what paper balistics say, i'm going by my personal hunting experience on big bears.

  DM

[moorepower]

Why not just shoot a .338 WM then. I would be curious how the .30-06 shooting a 200 grain NP @25-2600fps so out performs the .338 Fed shooting say a 215 Swift Scirocco @ 25-2600fps, which both will do.   How many bear have you shot with the .338 Fed compared with the .30-06 with bullets of similar construction? I have never hunted bear, I have no problem admiting, but I think I would lean to the .375 Ruger/ H&H if I was hunting something that thought that I was food! FYI in the Finnland and Sweden the 6.5 X55 kills more moose than any other round, so it does not take a cannon to kill a moose.

[Coyote Hunter]

... I have never hunted bear, I have no problem admiting, but I think I would lean to the .375 Ruger/ H&H if I was hunting something that thought that I was food! FYI in the Finnland and Sweden the 6.5 X55 kills more moose than any other round, so it does not take a cannon to kill a moose.

While I agree with the .375 thing and being potential food, I believe the .30-06 has surpassed the 6.5x55 in Sweden as the number one cartridge for moose.  (Last stats I saw were for several years ago.)

[Coyote Hunter]

400 yards, is pushing it for any big game cartridge in my opinion, unless you are after varmints then 400 yards is fine.  I have hunted out west, New Mexico, North Dakota, and yes Wyoming and I have never had a need to take a shot longer than 300 yards after Antelope, Deer or Elk.  I have the experience which gives me the ability to stalk closer to big game.
…

yooper77

Yooper 0

I have to agree with Wyo. Coyote Hunter – the .338 Federal, while a nice cartridge in my book, is not a long range cartridge.  My preferred practice targets are clay pigeons at 400, 500 and 600 yards, so I don’t consider big game at 400 a problem unless the wind is blowing.

Unfortunately, stalking closer to big game is not always an option – there are too many uncontrolled variables including constraints of time, terrain, weather, legal shooting hours, season end dates, property boundaries, interference by other hunters (especially on public land), and so on.  

A few weeks ago I took my second Wyoming antelope for the season minutes before we had to head home, range 360 yards.  The year before we were already headed home when I had a last minute chance at one at dusk, range 300 yards.  Getting closer was not possible in either case.  Years ago I took a nice 6x5 bull at 350 yards just as shooting light was about to expire.  Had I not taken the shot the bull would have been gone and I did not get another opportunity that year.  A couple years back a friend from Delaware was hunting elk and performed an excellent stalk only to have it blown by other hunters at the last minute - he went home empty-handed as a result.  

This year I was watching elk from 500 yards out to 1,000.  Fortunately I was able to narrow the range to 262 and took the shot at dusk.  My son-in-law, with only 1-1/2 days to hunt, took his at 363 yards after closing in from slightly over 400, also at dusk.  Both of us used one shot to do the job.  Could we have gotten closer yet?  Possibly, but I think not in either case.  There is no doubt we could have run out of shooting light trying to do so, however.  

I could go on and on and on….

Where I once considered 300 yards to be a pretty long shot and 400 yards to be very long, 400 is pretty much a gimme these days if the wind is cooperating.   At 400 yards I’m comfortable with my .308 Win.  At 500 the .30-06s will do.  At 600 the 6.5-06AI, 7mm RM and .300 WM are my preference.  I work hard to get closer but don’t think there is any fixed number (400 yards in this case) that separates hunters from snipers.  Frankly, I have more respect for the person that can make the long shot than someone (or two) who, as I witnessed last week, take 12-15 shots and bag one animal at closer ranges.

[Drilling Man]

Why not just shoot a .338 WM then. I would be curious how the .30-06 shooting a 200 grain NP @25-2600fps so out performs the .338 Fed shooting say a 215 Swift Scirocco @ 25-2600fps, which both will do.   How many bear have you shot with the .338 Fed compared with the .30-06 with bullets of similar construction? I have never hunted bear, I have no problem admiting, but I think I would lean to the .375 Ruger/ H&H if I was hunting something that thought that I was food! FYI in the Finnland and Sweden the 6.5 X55 kills more moose than any other round, so it does not take a cannon to kill a moose.

  Why not shoot a .458 Win., or maybe a 600 nitro???  But like the .338 Win. Mag., this thread isn't about those cartridges.

  As for the Swift in the Federal, i haven't tried it on big bears, and until i do, i'll stick with my origonal post, as i have personal experience to draw on for those answers, so i don't have to guess.

  As for the long shots.  I've never been so unlucky that all of my shots are quarter mile away, with no chance of getting closer.  I also have no problem at all, letting an animal walk away, as i'm out there to enjoy the hunt, and i don't have to kill something every time i go out.

  DM

[moorepower]

It is not about a .30-06 either! I am sorry, I am not buying that the same weight of bullet, with a similar construction at the same velocity it much better shot from a mistical .30-06. How many bears have you shot with the .338 Federal to come to your conclusion. Again, I don't have one, but I really don't believe they are any better or worse than anything else when shooting the same weight and construction of bullet down range as any other round.