Author Topic: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?  (Read 3032 times)

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Offline Brett

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2009, 02:13:21 PM »
Was going to post under a new topic but it fits this thread well.

Democrats' Health Care Plan Is Not About 'Health' or 'Caring'

Wednesday, July 15, 2009
By Glenn Beck

America has the best health care system in the world. Is it perfect? No. But it's still the best. Yet we're about to throw it all away in favor of... government-run health care.

But here's the one thing: The Democrats' latest health care plan has nothing to do with "health" or "caring" and everything to do with power and control.

"But Glenn, there are like 14 quadrillion people without health insurance. And besides, it's free!"

Actually the plan House Democrats unveiled Tuesday will cost $1 trillion over 10 years, but only 17 percent of the spending comes in the first five years, while 83 percent comes in the second five years. Once everything finally has kicked in, the plan will cost more than double — $230 billion per year — with the cost rising each year.

Where will the government get the money to pay for this massive "free" program? Because remember, as the president said when interviewed during the All-Star Game Monday night, "We are out of money"

If you guessed "the rich," you are a winner!

If you are "rich" or are employed by "the rich" or are looking to gain employment from someone who is "rich," then you are going to be the loser — a big fat loser.

The party who hates being called "socialist" is proposing to fund government care with a 5.4 percent surtax on those making over $1 million a year, with gradual taxes starting at incomes of $280,000 a year.

Taxing the rich to give poor people "free" health care? Sounds like socialism to me... but I didn't go to Harvard.

But wait, there's more! That huge tax hike only funds part of the plan. The rest is coming from — and I'm going to try and say this with a straight face — the expected windfall of savings the government will achieve.

Really? Our government? The one who has racked up an $11.5 trillion debt will fund a massive new program on "savings"?

Right. They claim they'll be able to beat those evil insurance companies in efficiency because they don't have to care about profits or paying bloated CEO salaries. Only one problem: Health insurance profits account for a measly 0.6 percent of health care costs.

So, for every dollar spent on health care 0.6 percent goes towards health insurance costs.

And those evil CEOs account for 0.0005 percent of costs. So for every dollar spent on health care, 0.0005 percent goes towards that greedy CEO. Can you believe this guy?

Clearly the numbers don't add up. It defies common sense. It's because this bill isn't about getting little Sally Muchenfuch medicine for her elbow-warts and it isn't about making every chubby American a beanpole.

It's about power and control over you.

If this bill passes, government would control and additional 1/6th of the economy. Combine that with the industries they've already infiltrated — namely the banks and the auto industry — and the ones they are trying to infiltrate — like the energy industry — and you have something that looks nothing like America.

What are we doing? I don't want to be like the European Union or Canada. I want America to be America: Where the people run the show — that's what makes us great. When we're run by the government, we are anything but the land of the free.

Besides, if we become like Canada or the E.U., where will all of their citizens come when they need that difficult or elusive medical treatment they can't get in their own crappy country!

— Watch "Glenn Beck" weekdays at 5 p.m. ET on FOX News Channel
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Offline spacer

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2009, 02:14:37 PM »
One of the big draws for the power hungry is that being a part of the government removes all personal responsibility from
them. Obama is not being paid to take responsibility for *anything* (otherwise he'd be liable for damages done by "his" system).
Since nobody is accountable in a government run system (except, of course, for the occasional scapegoat to keep the subjects
settled), then just about anything can happen to you.... and you'll have no real recourse.
The problems we face now are a product of over-regulation. Ask a doctor how much time and money are blown on regulatory and
insurance work (the latter is yet another facet of the whole regu-chilada).
A doctor can (and some are) running relatively free market offices for MUCH lower cost than the 'norm', though I wonder how long
they'll be allowed to exist.

As for "private" business, most of this system is being run by government protected corporations which have become heavily bureaucratic
themselves. This is the problem, and until the government butts the hell out, it'll continue to get worse.

When it's "single payer", you'd better hope you're on that Payer's good side. Otherwise you'll find yourself on the sidewalk.

Smokers, you guys are out (unless you're politically connected, then they'll rip a teenaged girl's lungs out to keep you alive)

Shooters, same to ya. As we all know, power hungry politicians are always on the lookout for a new back door, and owning a firearm
will certainly place you in a "risk" group they'll be happy to oppress.

Of course, there are many other activities which will eventually be used to trim costs from their ultimately unsustainable plans. Private pilots, SCUBA divers, anyone who chooses not to ride a mass transit cattle car, etc...

Offline lrs

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2009, 02:55:15 PM »
This is the big power grab.
If they control health care, through it there is little they don't have power over.
They can tie anything to a person's health care.
And it appears to be coming, and no one is trying to stop it.
In my mind, this is the most alarming thing seen to date, even in these crazy times.
" we are screwed "

Offline lee1954

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2009, 03:04:10 PM »
NO
 
 If they give --They can withhold all $,  if you are not to there liking

Offline Brett

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2009, 03:06:18 PM »
I think someone needs to check  some of the Connecticut Coalition for Universal Health Care's "facts".

If the health care in this country is so poor why do so many wealthy foreigners come here for treatment when they have serious health issues?

Ask any Canadian about how Canadians are dieing while waiting for medical treatments because the Government run system is so backed up.

There are a number of factors that could account for our poor ranking in life expectancies for men and women, lifestyle choices and dietary habits being a couple of major ones.    
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Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2009, 03:08:13 PM »
no no to any govt involvement our personal lives.... don t regulate gun ownership ,,don t get involved in health care,, don t regulate what is none of govts buisiness... thats not what you are in place for.. i believe your job its to provide for a strong national defence..
 otherwise let local state an county authorities do thier job... an let them do it according to the regulations set forth in the constitution, an bill of rights.. jmo slim

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2009, 03:15:43 PM »
YOU  TAX  DOLLARS

THAT  YOU VOLUNDARILY GIVE  THE  GOVERNMENT

WILL  BE  USED  TO KILL  BABIES


THAT  IS A FACT
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline squirrellluck

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2009, 03:53:10 PM »
Fact 1  We are broke! We cant afford the start up cost not to mention they will screw it up from day 1. Exactly like they have with everything else theyve got their hands on. So, until they show some actual honor, integrity, and responsibility NO NO NO!!!!

Offline Questor

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2009, 03:54:34 PM »
45-70 gov:

I didn't even think of that. You're right.
Safety first

Online DDZ

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2009, 03:57:11 PM »
Maybe the reason our healthcare cost more, is that we have better doctors and more and better equipment. Other countries healthcare is cheaper because they lack many things that are more readily available in the US. There are more than four times as many MRI units per capita in the US as in Britain or Canada. We have more than twice as many CT scanners per capita than Canada and four times as many than Britain. Is it surprising that these things cost money.
   In Canada people wait on average 10 weeks to get an MRI, just to find out what is wrong with them. That’s not counting the weeks for surgery. A lot of bad stuff can happen in 10 weeks. Like maybe dying.

Our wonderful Government is talking about bringing down the cost of medical care, but what they bring down is the price by refusing to pay the costs. Don’t be surprised if you get less when this happens. What we will get is increased rationing and poorer medical care. The inevitable result of the Obama plan will be some bureaucratic board that will tell millions of Americans that they are too young, or too old, or too sick to be worth paying for. Don’t for one minute think that our government won’t make it legal to just let old, or sick people die with no medical care. After all its legal to murder preborn children. They will just have to come up with a fancy name for murdering old or sick people, as the term for murdering babies is abortion.   
   How can anyone expect the buffoons this country elected to do anything right, let alone manage HC.
  There will come a day when the takers in this country will out number the givers.
   
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline CannonKrazy

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2009, 04:19:07 PM »
first watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

Then call your Congressmen and tell them hell NO.

We need to address these first:

Health Insurance regulation/reform among our leading health providers...like Medicaid and Medicare

Tort Reform

Obama won't do either as he is in league with both Health insurance providers and the ABA. He won't dare hurt his lawyer buddies.



Foxxtrot beat me to the post. This is a long video but well worth watching all of it.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2009, 04:54:13 PM »
Alot of folks who like this gov. stuff live close to Canada anyway. Maybe they should move-it-on-up & they can have that Health care & we can have ours.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline mirage1988

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2009, 05:01:56 PM »
TM7-Why do you keep bringing up canadiens coming here for health care when the real problem IS THE MEXICANS COMING HERE FOR HEALTHCARE AND WELFARE? Canada and europe would be singing a different song if half of their population didn't pay taxes but rather were a drain on society.

Offline spacer

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2009, 05:03:59 PM »
Easy test: Am I allowed to opt out in perpetuity? If not, it's merely another step toward tyranny. NOT a program
consistent with a free nation (yeah, I know... we've been under the Iron Thumb for a while now).
Kinda like Social "Security". If a private company or individual (at least, one not owned by the likes of Kennedy or any
other politically powerful sort), tried such a scheme, they'd be put up on charges.
If the government does it... well, it *must* be right.

Most folks I know who support socialized medicine (however you want to name it) are folks who plan on getting back
more than they put in. Usually welfare queens and pensioners who foolishly trusted their retirement to SSI.


Offline billy_56081

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2009, 05:06:03 PM »
I live close to Canada and have seen first hand how wealthy Canadians flock across the border to get timley care. Some of our socialists who are pushing for this socialist program will try to lie and tell you that they are being treated here under the Canadian socialist health care system. But that is a lie these folks are paying cash, travelers check or credit card. They are doing this because the health care system is completly over burdened and rationed.


TM so why are you avoiding my question? You are the one here who rails against big government but yet when it comes to this you beg for bigger socialist government.



 Is free health care something so personal to you that you will copletley dismiss all these morals you claim?
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline mirage1988

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2009, 05:43:42 PM »
TM- most of those that 'have it' have earned it!
There are those that have become rich on the backs of immigrants, and there are some that have become rich because of their entertainment value, but the majority of americans enjoy a comfortable lifestyle because of hard work!
 How dare you say that the money "should come from those who have it" ?

Offline spacer

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2009, 05:45:03 PM »
So, boys and girls, it'll work fine if only you BELIEVE enough!

Yeah, and Tinkerbell will fly outta my butt, too.


And the whole "Eat the Rich" mentality just reeks.

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2009, 05:58:54 PM »
NO,NO a 1000 times NO !!!


Even THE LIAR IN THE WHITEHOUSE when asked if it was his kid wouldn't he want the best doctor he could get, not one picked by the government and he said "IF IT WAS MY CHILD YES I SURELY WOULD WANT THE BEST".


LONGTOM
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2009, 06:07:36 PM »
I dont want the government involved in anything but protecting the country, And i wish the constitution allowed for somebody else to do that!


All of us older folk will find that we are not worth the expense of costly surgeries to keep us alive.


If it was so damned good why did the congress opt out! they dont have to participate in the plan ?   ???
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Offline mirage1988

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2009, 06:11:38 PM »
TM7 should be able to explain that for you!

Offline ms

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2009, 06:37:58 PM »
MAYBE I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR MORE ABOUT IT. :-\

Online DDZ

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2009, 11:51:24 PM »
Oh, I see now the rich people are going to pay for it. Boy, does that ever make it sound better. Maybe TM could define what rich people are. With a socialized government, rich people are the ones that wake up to an alarm clock every day, and go to work. Are these the so called rich people that are going to pay for HC?  Yes indeed, the takers are going to out number the givers. Then what?
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2009, 01:27:47 AM »
TM once again you are not telling the truth. The Canadians coming to Minnesota ARE NOT being reimbursed for the healthcare they are paying for here. They are the wealthy who can pay cash to get serviced that are either not available in Canada or are so back logged that they would have to suffer or die before they could get them. The plan that the liberal Messiah is pushing IS socialism. It is no different than the socialising of the auto industrie and bank that you have railed about.



This health care reform bill is one of the worst things that can happen to American health care. Despite what some people say, the Canadian system is backlogged and overburdened. Canadians are being put offin receiving servises or being outright denied because of cost. Many of the newer more expensive drugs are not available in Canada. The system is back logged because people are running to the Dr. for ever little bump bruise or cough, no different than when I was in the Army we would go for free cough medicine, tylenol, band aids, ect.


99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2009, 01:40:05 AM »
My allergy doctor has two Canadian patients who travel all the way to Alabama to get nasal operations.  Why?  If Canada's is so good, why come over a thousand miles to get help?  NO, government is a big beaurocarcy and inefficient.  There are over 1.5 million women getting milk an cheese money for their kids.  If they got cash payments for the Federal allocation of money, they could get $1 million each.  They don't get but about $100 worth of aid a month.  The rest is in the Federal, State, and Local bureaus administering the money.  Just wasted money.  Not making anything, not producing anything.  The Soviet Union failed.  The only thing I can see the Feds doing maybe is covering vaccines for everyone and disease prevention, maybe help with research money.  Bring industry back home, and they will provide insurance.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2009, 01:40:47 AM »
Hell no , to add not in favor of nationalized car companies , banks , or most other things in general. EVEN THE OLD POLITICANS HAD ENOUGH SENSE TO MAKE THE FEDERAL RESERVE PRIVATE SO GOVT. COULDN"T SCREW IT UP AS EASY .
Did you really need to ask ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2009, 01:46:24 AM »
Dixie if you think its crazy there. You need to come to MN and see. Old TM was trying to argue this on another thread and stated that one of the reasons people were coming here from Winnepeg Canada was because it was so "remote" to use his words. Winnepeg is Canadas 5th largest city 60 miles from our border.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2009, 02:13:42 AM »
St. James is my home town. I have lived in several towns ans cities in Northen MN. In fact in Thief River Falls they had a sepertate teller for "international" patients and it was always the buisiest line in the clinic.

BTW, you should see the nice new hospital and clinic in my little home town of St. James. Heck its even part of that unknown Mayo health system. Heck my brother even works there.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Savage .250

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2009, 02:18:27 AM »
A very loud and very clear...................NO !!
 
  I`m good with what I have. 
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2009, 02:21:45 AM »
I hunt north of Winnepeg and you have to get right far out of town to get to anything that could be called remote ie couldn't drive a car there .
As far as comming to America for health care most of the Canidians i met assure me its the best way to get care . They get travel insurance then come to the USA or other countries to get care . If you want govt. health care its your choice but don't sugar coat a problem systen in another country and lie about how well it works .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Mikey

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Re: Are you in favor of nationalized health care?
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2009, 02:33:05 AM »
Nope!  Not in favor of it at all.  National health care systems are way too costly and lack good quality care indicators.  National health care systems are based on the notion that current programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Maternal and Child Health are too costly now and lack opportunity for the poor.

Well, this is political bs.  The first program politicians complain about is Medicare - but Medicare is not the problem.  Medicare funds some hospitalization and long term care (about 3 months worth each) for the elderly (65 and older) - there are some younger thrown in there but not enough to matter.

Medicaid however is health insurance for the indigent (poor) and that costs way more than it should.  Medicare is totally federally funded.  Medicaid is 50/50 federal and state and the aspect that drives the Medicaid program expenditures throught the roof is the fact that states (your elected politicians) opt to provide the broadest range of services to the indigent through this program.  Neu yawk is about the worst example next to kalifornika.  nys opened its taxpayer's wallets to every option available under Medicaid so the indigent would vote for those who offered it - the dems.  Kalifornika has spent so much on it's Medicaid program it taxes separately under its own internal program called Medi-Cal and every indigent, illegal immigrant and homeless person can access free health care, at your expense, under the programs these two states offer.

A national health care program lends to poor health care, a lack of effective monitoring of health care provided and considers quality control or quality care as a function and result of cost containment.  This is the fallacy.  Cost containment has not once, in over 40 years of program application, ever resulted in quality care.  The opposite is true however - quality care by itself results in cost containment and this has been demonstrated often but is always ignored by the politicians who want you to spend more for providing health care for the indigent who vote for them.

Remember this - the cost of care for the elderly (Medicare) is a small percentage of that for the indigent (Medicaid and Medi-Cal) but the opposite is what the politicains would have you believe so they can tax you to provide more health care for the indigent under a national health care plan.  And this is what you would be paying for under the obama scheme.....