Author Topic: Do these guns recoil more, all else being equal? (Read 1210 times)

BRL · « **on:** July 15, 2009, 03:47:01 PM »

How much does a rifle stock effect felt recoil? I'd like to take this into consideration the next time I look for a rifle.

Probably the hardest recoiling gun I own is a .243 in the Handi Rifle. My Remington 7400 autoloader in .30-06 seems to recoil less. My AR-10 in .308 feels less too. Granted, they are heavier rifles and are autoloaders but still...? My Browning BLR in 7mm-08 is pretty light weight and feels like it's the lightest recoiling gun I own. Is it the mere fact that the Handis are so light that recoil is felt more, or is it a combination of weight and stock design? I'd like to get another Handi but not if it's going to beat me up during a long range session.

What stocks are more likely to reduce felt recoil, all else being equal?

Thanks!!

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #1 on:** July 15, 2009, 03:59:08 PM »

Stock design is a major factor in felt recoil. Get a Limbsaver recoil pad and shoot till yer out of ammo, they work great. DP

FW Conch · « **Reply #2 on:** July 15, 2009, 04:18:47 PM »

BRL, break action firearms inherently transmit more felt recoil. Autoloaders tipicaly transmit the least. I feel that with Handi's, the thumbhole stocks are probably the most comfortable, recoil wise, followed by the regular wood stocks. And as dpe said, go with the Limbsaver- they really make a difference.

Jim

spruce · « **Reply #3 on:** July 15, 2009, 04:47:18 PM »

Agree with DP and Jim.

Gas operated autoloaders seem to recoil less because the recoil forces are spread out over a longer period of time due to the way the action functions.

Straight stock designs such as your AR also help to reduce felt recoil because the comb is in line with the bore, hence the barrel doesn't rise as much and cause the comb to slap your face.

Also, a stock with a nice wide buttplate transfers the recoil over a wider area of your shoulder - and like both said, a good pad like a limbsaver really makes a difference.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #4 on:** July 15, 2009, 04:52:26 PM »

I must be crazy.
Of all the HANDYs I own the only ones that I feel kick much at all is the 35 Whelen, 45 BC with steel butt plate and the 450 marlin.
All but the BC have wood stocks with factory recoil pads.
My WINCHESTER model 94 trapper in 45 colt kicks just as hard as my 22" 45/70 HANDY.
It surely has a lot to do with stock design.
I just don't think the HANDYs kick that much.
I don't know, maybe it's just me.

LONGTOM

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 15, 2009, 06:57:21 PM »

Over all weight of the rifle, stock design (fit), and action type all have a lot to do with felt recoil. I have a Marlin 1894 in 44 mag and a Handi in 44 Mag. The same loads in the Marlin feel harder on my shoulder than does the Handi. Why, well both are fixed breach (on firing), but the Marlin has no recoil pad and it weighs less, and do not forget that it has a straight grip. I think you are comparing Apples to Oranges when you compare gas operated auto loaders to a Handi. Additional weight in the auto loaders just adds to the softer feel. Each has their purpose. In the field, after the shot, I could not tell you how much the recoil was. Setting a a bench, I am a lot more recoil sensitive. Like I said when that deer jumps up in front of you or a covey of quail raises, recoil is the furthest thing from my mind and I do not feel a thing.

Sourdough · « **Reply #6 on:** July 15, 2009, 07:43:59 PM »

LaOtto has it right.

But a .243 Handi hardly has any recoil. That is what I start 10 yr olds with, when they go through Hunter Safety classes. Try a Standard Handi in 45-70 loaded with lever gun loads and 400gr bullets. They recoil more than my .338 Win Mag. It will knock your socks loose.

The way you hold your gun also has a lot to do with how badly you get thumped.

petemi · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2009, 02:08:42 AM »

I gotta agree with Longtom and most of the other guys. I really find it hard to imagine a .243 Handi abusing anyone. I don't own one, but I do have a 7mm-08 Handi, just a little larger .243, with a pallet wood MC stock, and that's a pussycat to shoot. Recoil in the .45-70 and 30-06 was somewhat on the sharp side, but I quenched that with some shot in their synthetic stocks. I have found the light saddle leverguns have the worst recoil. I think you ought to take a closer look at how you're holding that Handi, and if it's scoped, see where that is. It could be putting you in an unnatural position.

Pete

BRL · « **Reply #8 on:** July 16, 2009, 03:42:03 AM »

Guys, thanks for all the great posts.

My .243 Handi doesn't bother me. I just notice that it seems to have more recoil than a .243 should, in my mind. Certainly more than my other rifles. Although, I do tend to take a loose grip on a rifle in the rest and let it slap me, but I do this with all my rifles. I want to keep this (stock design, or whatever else effects recoil) in mind when purchasing another rifle. My goal is to find a rifle that I can hunt with AND shoot a lot at the range. My trips to the range are few and far between these days. So, I'd like to make my range time longer with the rifle I shoot with (aside from bringing the .22LR with me). I like the Handi a lot and would like to get another one...or at least fit mine with another barrel. I wanted to see if it was merely the Handi or something else that made that .243 recoil more than I thought it should.

All of the above posts were very informative. Thanks!!

LONGTOM · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2009, 06:17:28 AM »

BRL:

I would say that the lose hold has a lot to do with the felt recoil you are recieving.
Not that this is bad but you will get a lot more slap from this type of hold.

I on the other hand am use to larger calibers and hence tend to hold my guns much tighter to the shoulder.
There is still a jolt but there is none of the slap you are getting.

I too am a firm beleaver in the LIMB-SAVER recoil pads.
I put one on my WIN 1300 syn stock with 3" #4 buck and it really calmed that thing down.
I wish LIMB-SAVER would bring out a pre fit pad for the wood stocked HANDYs.
Now that would sell !!!

LONGTOM

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2009, 06:29:38 AM »

BRL, try a neoprene cartridge carrier on the comb of the stock, a lot of shooters perceive recoil differently. You are wearing hearing protection too, aren't ya?

The problem with the prefit pads is H&R doesn't make all the wood stocks the same, or hasn't in the past, you can't swap pads around, each pad is individually fitted when they shape the stocks, so they're all a little different. $:-\$ Maybe the new wood production shop at Ilion will improve the consistency enough that pad mfrs will offer a prefit pad for em.

Tim

chipmunk · « **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2009, 04:00:57 PM »

I can tell you for sure that shape makes a HUGE difference. My grandfather has a remington 760 in 30-06 that has been known to make grown men cry. My 30-06 doesn't bother me at all but the same load in that 760 will leave a bruise with just 1 shot. I think its the light gun combined with the thin plastic butt.

Buckwheat Jack · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2009, 04:11:03 PM »

:-XPersonally, I think the load has more to do with it than the gun, unless the gun is far too light. I like to shoot my old Moisin-Nagants, 8mm Mauser, and Schmidt-Rubin with their original military stock and metal buttplates using factory ammo. If I shoot 50 or 60 rounds(or more) in one session, I may have a little blue on my shoulder. I also shoot a .58 muzzleloader. I use a round ball and 60g FFF powder, not the hottest loads, although I have fired a few 90+ grain loads. THe old thing is heavy enough that recoil is not bad. My Handi in 45-70 is new to me. I have shot a few 405 grain factory loads and sweveral 450 grain handloads over IMR4198. Again, not super hot loads, but the recoil is OK.
The worst recoil I ever felt was from a lightweight bolt action 410 shotgun....many years ago. I didn't expect the kick, so was not holding as tight as I should. The first shot felt like it took my arm off.
I'm hoping to change my Handi's recoil pad for an old style brass buttplate for cosmetic sake. I'll worry abot recoil later.

mechanic · « **Reply #13 on:** July 16, 2009, 04:20:37 PM »

Something that really helped me at the range was raising my rest up until I am sitting upright, not leaning forward. The shooting benchs built there would have you bent forward from the waist a lot. After doing this, I find that I can "recoil with the recoil" better. Before a box of 243 would leave my shoulder sore and the 45-70 was scary. Last week I shot over a hundred 45-70 in one session, off my left shoulder, (right one is injured). No bruise, no soreness, no stiff neck. Just a thought........

BRL · « **Reply #14 on:** July 16, 2009, 04:37:09 PM »

Those are all good tips. I'll have to try some and see what works. Then I can apply that to pretty much any rifle.

Mechanic, what did you use to raise your rest that was steady? At my range, that would probably be 8" or 9" to get me more upright. It's a good point though. I suppose I could use a lower chair too. Some time last year I saw a guy at the range that stood up while he shot. He had shooting sticks on the bench and leaned into the post with his shoulder. Maybe that's what he was doing...trying to get upright. He certainly was, other than the slight lean into the post. Interesting.

Thanks

snapcrackpop · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2009, 03:57:11 AM »

Quote from: BRL on July 16, 2009, 03:42:03 AM

My goal is to find a rifle that I can hunt with AND shoot a lot at the range.

What are you going to hunt?
I can shoot my boy's .223 all day without a problem, great for coyotes, not the best for deer and then there's the thing about the barrel heating up..... My handi .243 doesn't kick much, but it's more than the .223.

I purchased a shooting pad for my Stevens 110 .308 because of the recoil at the range. Wood stock and thin plastic butt pad. Ouch at the range, but didn't feel a thing when shooting my first 20 deer with it.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2009, 04:57:20 AM »

If you are looking for a Handi Rifle that you can shoot all day at the range and still be able to hunt with it I have the perfect caliber for that.

Get yourself a .357 Mag and ream it to maximum!

You can shoot all day using .38 spl and .357 for target or hunting, and load up some .357 maximum and have near the same ballistics as the .35 Remington for a good hunting rifle that will take everything up to hogs and deer sized animals with no problem.

The .38's kick about like a .22, and are accurate and just plain fun to shoot as are the .357 Mag's, and with it reamed to max my rifle punches one ragged hole at 80 yard and 1" at 100 if I do my part.

Harvested a doe last year at 110 paces and she dropped right there where she stood, and you don't get that sharp barrel rise after the shot, so you can watch through your scope for the hit!

Check out this link, as it's the .357 topic on this same page!
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,178038.0.html

BRL · « **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2009, 07:36:45 AM »

Good idea Jimbo! I do like the idea of having a rifle in a pistol caliber. And, I already reload for pistol calibers.

I'd be hunting deer and hogs. Remember, I am not saying that the .243 recoils too much for me. I am saying that the .243 in my Handi feels like it recoils more than it should. I was wondering if it was more due to stock design. Reading some of the posts here, it seems to have something to do with it. When I purchase my next rifle, I will look at stock design more closely.

Thanks!

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2009, 11:13:21 AM »

I understand what you are talking about because I noticed when I still had my .243 Handi it wasn't the kick, but the sharpness or muzzle jump that I noticed after the shot.

Kind of the same as shooting a .40 caliber pistol vs. shooting a .45 caliber.

The .40 has more of a snap to it, and the .45 kind of a push on recoil, but that's shooting a Glock!

Nothing that effects accuracy but I noticed it when shooting both!

mechanic · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2009, 12:06:09 PM »

Quote from: BRL on July 16, 2009, 04:37:09 PM

Those are all good tips. I'll have to try some and see what works. Then I can apply that to pretty much any rifle.

Mechanic, what did you use to raise your rest that was steady? At my range, that would probably be 8" or 9" to get me more upright. It's a good point though. I suppose I could use a lower chair too. Some time last year I saw a guy at the range that stood up while he shot. He had shooting sticks on the bench and leaned into the post with his shoulder. Maybe that's what he was doing...trying to get upright. He certainly was, other than the slight lean into the post. Interesting.

Thanks

I did a "deluxe" job. Nailed together a wood box with a lid. When I get to the range I store my extra ammo in it, and set my rest on top.

spikehorn · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2009, 12:51:05 PM »

I have a 7mm-08 with the pallet wood stock and just recently picked up a handi 308 heavy bbl combo from dicks sg and also have a stevens 200 in 308 and a 1916 spanish mauser with a steel butt plate in 308 and out of all four of these guns the 7mm-08 delivers the most felt recoil. I am not recoil shy by anymeans so i have done nothing to the handis such as adding weight to the stocks. The 7mm-08 seems to have the thinest recoil pad, and of the two handis 7mm-08 is also the heavier gun. Maybe like the others have mention, I'm just noticing more muzzle jump from the 7mm-08 not sure. Like everyone has said when the hunt is on I don't feel recoil.

GatCat · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2009, 08:30:24 PM »

BRL, another thing to consider is that due to break-open design ( no reciever, as such ), the muzzle is closer to your face and ears then other rifles with equal length barrels, ( especially if you have a youth model ), so perhaps the increased blast may result in greater "percieved" recoil.
Mark

briannmilewis · « **Reply #22 on:** July 21, 2009, 05:55:15 AM »

I am an overly recoil averse shooter! I can see no reason on earth, that given today's technologies in the shooting realm, why anyone should put up with excessive recoil. Also, I have two teenage sons who are getting into shooting at the same time I am, and they aren't built like high school full-backs, so it is my goal to mitigate recoil as much as possible for them.

So that is what prompted the first centerfire purchase being a 22 Hornet. Geez, we even have a slip-on Limbsaver over the factory recoil pad on the Hornet because the stock was a compact and too short for us all. $19 for a Limbsaver beats $40 for a new stock. The Limbsaver, while not adding back the complete difference between the standard Handi LOP (14.25") and compact LOP (11.75"), it did add 1" to make it 12.75", which we all can use competently and more or less comfortably.

My recoil averse brain tells me that 4-5ft/lb of recoil is plenty for anyone to put up with. So my plan is that as we progress up the Handi centerfire ladder, as soon as we reach a cartridge and rifle weight that produces in excess of 5ft/lb of recoil (220 Swift, 6mm BR Rem, 243 Win), I will have 1" removed from the length of the stock by a competent smith, put back the factory recoil pad, and then add a slip-on Limbsaver, which will return the rifle to the correct LOP. The combined factory recoil pad and a Limbsaver should reduce recoil by about 50%.

Call me weird, but that's the plan.

wreckhog · « **Reply #23 on:** July 21, 2009, 09:44:28 AM »

Try a PAST recoil pad if you can. They are awkward, but negate recoil a lot. As an example, 20 gauge birdshot annoys me even with a Limbsaver, but I can shoot 12 gauge slugs with a PAST and no other recoil pad.

briannmilewis · « **Reply #24 on:** July 21, 2009, 10:09:07 AM »

wreckhog: I will keep that one in my basket of tricks when the time comes. Thanks.

BRL · « **Reply #25 on:** July 21, 2009, 10:44:17 AM »

Great posts, thanks.

You mean the PAST pad that slips over your shoulder?