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Author Topic: 45 Colt M-73 at the range  (Read 2679 times)

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Offline AtlLaw

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45 Colt M-73 at the range
« on: July 20, 2009, 07:38:20 AM »
I finally got to the range!  Spent all afternoon there yesterday.  One of the rifles I fired was my (Uberti) Win M73.  The ammo I was using was some store bought Georgia Arms cowboy ammo; Starline brass and a 250 gr. RNFP bullet.  I was mostly shooting it up to get rid of it and get the brass ready to reload.

Interesting note.  out of my 5.5 inch SAA the ammo clocked an average of 734 fps.  From the '73's 24 inch barrel it averaged 1022 fps.   :o  Quite a nice velocity gain!   :)

While I was very pleased with the groups I got with that ammo in my two SAA's at 25 yards, the '73 put it's bullets in more of a small pattern then a large group at 50 yards.   :(  But I'm not making any judgements at this stage mind you!  I now have a starting point and control over the components and process!   :D  Oh, I've found that I have to shoot open/iron/receiver sights at 50 yards for load work...   :-\  I hate being old!   :'(

Recoil and muzzle blast was non-existant!  Both were so light that after the first round went off I thought I had stuck a bullet!   :o  Then I saw that the round had registered over my 'graph.   :-[

All in all the rifle is beautiful, great fun to shoot and has accuracy potential.   ;D  It may be the first rifle I use this deer season if any supplier will get in any 250 gr. XTP's!   ::)
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Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2009, 09:14:18 AM »
Almost 300fps out of that ammo is great Richard.  Have you had a chance to try any of the M.B.Works bullets out of the 45 yet?  Glad ya got out, was to blasted hot here this weekend to stray out of the airconditioning.  Saturdays temps around my house were 100-103.  Great day for a nap! ;D  DP
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2009, 09:30:58 AM »
Quote from: dpe.ahoy on July 20, 2009, 09:14:18 AM
M.B.Works bullets out of the 45 yet?

No, the only ones I have from them are for the 44 and 45-120.  I've got some .452 diameter, 250 gr. RNFP's but I'm thinking about ordering a couple hundred .453 diameter, 255 gr. (or is it 260?) WFNGC's from MBW's.  No one has any XTP's and I really want to hunt with the rifle this season.  It's first in line now that my 45-120 is giving me problems...  :(  I figger if I can get those WFNGC bullets to shoot well they might work on our deer at about 1300 fps.   ;D

Quote
Saturdays temps around my house were 100-103.

That's really strange!   :o  We had a record low this morning; colder this morning then when the previous record set back in the forty's!  Uh, in the last century that is!   ;D
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Richard
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Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2009, 03:14:53 PM »
I'm thinkin that would be meat in the freezer for ya Richard.  I've heard good things about his RCBS 270 SAA as well, but no GC on it, would need to make sure ya slugged the barrel for the right size.  I do love my 45's :-*, there is a reason they are still around for over 100 years. ;).  I have seen in a magazine that the 270SAA is too long to feed in the 73 if crimped in the groove.  DP
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Offline coyotejoe

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 04:57:16 AM »
My Uberti '73 was in 44/40, the proper caliber for a '73 if you recall that go round. The first thing I did was to mount a Uberti tang sight and that really tightened my groups. I mostly shot blackpowder or Pyrodex loads and if I swabbed the bore after every five shots it was no trouble to keep groups under two inches at 50 but they still went close to six inches at 100.
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2009, 07:00:19 AM »
Quote from: dpe.ahoy on July 20, 2009, 03:14:53 PM
make sure ya slugged the barrel for the right size.

I did DP!  Matter of fact it was the first thing I did!   ;D  Came out an even .452!   :o  That's why I was asking in another thread if I should get GC'd cast bullets sized .452 as I would if they were jacketed, or sized .453 as I would if they were streight cast bullets.   :-\

Quote from: coyotejoe on July 21, 2009, 04:57:16 AM
My Uberti '73 was in 44/40, the proper caliber for a '73

 ::)  Okay, I'll grant you that... And I think the 38/40 and 44/40 case shape is condusive to smooth operation, but I have 45 revolvers, like the 45 Colt, yaddayaddayadda   ;D


Quote
a Uberti tang sight and that really tightened my groups.

I put a hunting disk in the tang sight on mine and forgot to change it back to the target disk before I went to the range.  I'm going to try it next time.

Quote
no trouble to keep groups under two inches at 50

I would be happy with 2 inches at 50!  but I'm not worried about the accuracy issue... yet!   ;D  And I'll leave the holy black for my ML's!   ;)
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Richard
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Offline jimster

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2009, 07:06:38 AM »
Wow Atlaw, that IS an impressive velocity gain there.  I really appreciate you doing this and posting, I have a 24" barrel on my 45 as well, it gives me a real good idea of what might be going on.

I kind of thought it sounded like my 250 grain rnfp bullets were slapping the sand hills pretty hard where I shoot.  I think the .45 Colt hits pretty hard out of a carbine or rifle with just moderate loads.
I have blue dot I'm trying to use up in my 24" rifle, although I know there are better powders, it appears to work just fine, and 12 grains of it behind a 250 or 255 cast seems to hit fairly hard and work just fine out of a longer barrel.

Thanks for taking the time to chrony your loads.  
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2009, 09:44:09 AM »
No problem Jimbo!  I'm just glad someone finds it interesting and informative!   ;)
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Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2009, 04:45:32 PM »
Richard, you are ALWAYS interesting and informative. ;)  DP
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Offline Lone Star

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2009, 09:31:16 PM »
Quote
...I have blue dot I'm trying to use up in my 24" rifle, although I know there are better powders, it appears to work just fine, and 12 grains of it behind a 250 or 255 cast seems to hit fairly hard and work just fine out of a longer barrel....

Nothing wrong with BlueDot in the .45LC, I use it in all five of mine.   ;)   It bulks well and has given among the tightest groups.  12.9 grains is the Alliant max for a 260 LSW and 13.0 for a 260HP - I usually load to that level for SAAMI-level loads, and up to 15 grains in Ruger-level loads.  In short barrels it does bark some, but out of my scoped 10" T/C it will consistantly group 2 moa at 100 yards so who cares.   Under the 250XTPs BlueDot hammers deer and caribou just fine.


.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2009, 01:41:41 AM »
i dont like blue dot especially in guns like 73s that are marginal in ablility to handle heavy pressure. Loading blue dot to higher pressures is a skecthy thing. It goes from mild to wild with a small increase in powder charge. In that burning rate hs6 is a much more stable powder and has given me better accuracy to boot. 73s can be a challange to load for. Especially in 45 colt. the chamber and barrel specs can vary greatly from on manufacture to another. It can sometimes take a good deal of experimenting with bullet alloys sizes and loads to get an accurate load. Good thing is most of them can be made to shoot.
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Offline Nobade

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2009, 03:29:25 AM »
If'n it were mine I would be shooting one of Dick Dastardly's Big Lube bullets in that '73, cast really soft, over real black powder. Or if I wanted even longer strings of fire without wiping, I'd use Hodgdon 777. That way I would be getting all the performance I could get with pressures in line with what a '73 is designed for, and likely the best accuracy as well as good feeding from the magazine. 

I use Red Dot or AA#2 in my Marlin 45 Colt rifle, but I wouldn't do that in a '73 - just not much margin for error, and I'd hate to shoot loose an expensive rifle like that.
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Offline Lone Star

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2009, 09:49:33 PM »
Quote
i dont like blue dot...
Lloyd, you and I will respectfully have to disagree on this topic, as we have in the past.  My experience, that of other shooters, and the loading manuals are not like yours.  I'm not saying you are wrong, just that there are two sides to every story.  We are both entitled to our opinons, and the OP will have to choose who to listen to....




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Offline jimster

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2009, 12:33:06 PM »
Well I have a bunch of Blue Dot to use up somehow, so I just figured 12 grains was safe enough...and mine is a EMF 92 not a 73,  so I'll probably not have anything happen.  The reason I stuck to just 12 grains is in case I slipped one into a Colt type revolver by mistake, it would not be a bomb. 
I don't want to waste a whole 5 pounds of this stuff, I have nothing else to use it for.  It does seem to work well enough in the 24" barrel, and 12 grains of this has more punch than any factory "Cowboy" load, so I loaded up a bunch of these for the 92.  Don't plan on going any hotter, really no need for that in my case.  When playing around with this Blue Dot and the 45 Colt, it didn't seem to be acting right and consistant till I hit close to 12 grains, so I just kept it there and loaded a bunch.  Can't find much data on Blue Dot and the 45 Colt, but what I did find says 12 grains and a 250gr rnfp hits 900/910 fps out of a revolver with a "longer" barrel.  I figured it might work out of the 92 even better, hope I get the same kind of velocity gain Atlaw got.  When the Blue Dot is used up I already planned to use something else in this rifle.  I've read about the Blue Dot recalls, that bugged me...and using them in certain magnums was not good, that bothered me some when I read that too.  I need to find a combination where the book says about 900 fps for revolvers, because the rifle is sighted in the way I like it for a load like that.  I don't have a need for anything faster or harder in that caliber at this time.  Anyway, so far, Blue Dot is working fine in this rifle, no complaints and I got deal on the powder.

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Offline w30wcf

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2009, 04:27:16 AM »
I have fired many of Alliant's published loads for Blue Dot in my original .44 W.C.F. '73 Winchester circa 1882 with good results and no problems whatsoever.... 200 gr. bullet / 12.0 / Blue Dot / 1,225 f.p.s. (24" barrel) / 12,500 psi 

In the .45 Colt, Alliant shows: 250 gr. bullet / 11.5 / Blue Dot / 890 f.p.s. (7 1/2"  barrel) / 12,200 p.s.i.  This load would probably produce close to 1,200 f.p.s. in a 24" barrel. Jimster, I would say that based on that your 12 gr. load is safe.

w30wcf
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Offline w30wcf

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2009, 04:34:55 AM »
AtlLaw,
I don't have a .45 Colt in a '73 but I do have a Marlin Cowboy Ltd. in that caliber. It's barrel also slugs .452" and it prefers .454"+ diameter lead alloy bullets for the best accuracy.  For a factory loading Winchester Cowboy ammunition has proven very accurate in that rifle with 50 yard groups running 1 1/2" or less :) Winchester uses .454" diameter bullets in that ammunition.

I don't know if one could achieve 1,300 f.p.s. with a 250 gr. bullet in the .45 Colt in a 24" barrel at less than the SAMMI MAP of 14,000 CUP. Perhaps Blue Dot or 2400 would but I have not seen any ballistics info produced in a ballistics lab on that.

w30wcf   
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Offline SmokeEater2

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2009, 08:39:28 AM »
Gotta' love those M73's! I bought a Cimarron (Uberti) '73 in .45 Colt when they first started selling them and I absolutely love the thing. I load 250 gr. SWC's over Unique and use the same load in my SAA's too. My Cimmy is more accurate than I am and a lot of fun to shoot too. My buddy and I were at the range one day and I had a bunch of ammo loaded up and I was plinking away with it and he asked to shoot it. Well, He ran it dry and commented that it was the most fun he'd had shooting in years and he might just have to buy one. ;D
 I use it as a deer rifle sometimes around the homestead too since it's not nearly as loud as most of my dedicated deer rifles but it'll put the smackdown on a venison dinner easily. Besides all that, the darn thing is just a joy to handle and about as pretty as a lever gun gets.  :) 
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2009, 01:43:12 PM »
Quote from: SmokeEater2 on July 31, 2009, 08:39:28 AM
as pretty as a lever gun gets.  :) 

I agree with you there!   ;D  And mine is a hoot to shoot!

Did you have any feeding problems using the SWC's?  I hear they can be tempermental about what you feed them when it comes to cartridge OAL, but I was wondering about bullet shape.   :-\
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Richard
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2009, 05:37:04 PM »
I've found lever guns to be REAL TEMPERMENTAL about feedingd SWC with a lip on them like Keith bullets. If ya use RNFP bullets they'll feed slick as can be.
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2009, 06:14:25 PM »
Thanks Bill'am, that's what I've always heard.  At this point I can definately say the '73 feeds RNFP just fine!   ;D  You have GOT to shoot this thing!   ;)
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Offline Sweetwater

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2009, 08:59:46 PM »
RE:Blue Dot in the 45Colt. A little while ago I sent my data sheets into Alliant at their request as I had inquired about the Blue Dot warning that had come out using it with certain calibers. They said my "data sheets were consistent with their findings and so was OK, BUT if I noticed any erratic velocities in the future, or with a different Lot#, the prudent thing would be to discontinue its use."
Too many really stable powders to run risks with this, so when this Lot is gone, I will be on to something else. Not a big deal for me to change.

My Marlin 41mag feeds the WFNGC's just fine. I resized some for my '73 Winchester 38WCF and they wouldn't feed that wide meplat. Any standard SWC fed ok, as well as the RNFP.

Richard, what's with the suit? Not used to seeing ya spiffed up!

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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2009, 12:01:18 AM »
If it works for you go for it. Im far from the last word on this. Ive notice pressure problems and erratic chorno readings 15 years before aliant posted that it can happen. Id say i cant be to far off if the company is admitting it themselves. Like i said i cant see that its worth the bother. Powders like hs6 will do the same thing and are much more stable. It isnt a bad powder if your not trying to milk the last bit of velocity out of a gun but if i can buy hs6 for the same price and its more stable, just as accurate and it meters twice as good I just cant see wasting my time or risking problems. Where a guy can run into problems with it is on a progressive press where your not checking every round for powder weight. Lil gun is anohter powder that gives me funny pressure problems sometimes. I have about quit using it too. I keep some for 3220 loads as my gun really likes it in that but other then that i dont use it. Between the pressure problmes and the fact it eats forcing cones when loaded hot it just isnt worth it when you can use 110 for about the same velocitys. 
Quote from: Lone Star on July 26, 2009, 09:49:33 PM
Quote
i dont like blue dot...
Lloyd, you and I will respectfully have to disagree on this topic, as we have in the past.  My experience, that of other shooters, and the loading manuals are not like yours.  I'm not saying you are wrong, just that there are two sides to every story.  We are both entitled to our opinons, and the OP will have to choose who to listen to....




.
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2009, 03:21:00 AM »
Quote from: Sweetwater on July 31, 2009, 08:59:46 PM
...the WFNGC's... I resized some for my '73 Winchester 38WCF and they wouldn't feed that wide meplat.

Now that's some good info right there!  The LBTWFN would be (is) my pick for a hunting bullet but if it won't feed thru the '73...  :(  Funny, the WFN's work fine in my Super Blackhawk...  :-\
 ;)

Quote
what's with the suit?

I get bored with the same ol' avatar so I like to change them every so often.  That's probably because I use close-ups and get tired of looking at myself every time I post...  :-\  I could stop using CU's but I feel that since we get to be a pretty close knit group here on GBO, member's should be able to recognise each other...  In all our guises! ;D

Change is good (and you've been told it's coming   ::)).  As this ol' girl I used to date always said, "there's more in life then leather!  There's also whips and chains!"   :-\  Hum, hadn't thought of her in a long time... Man! she was like riding a ridged frame motorcycle down a rutted road...  8)

Now, try to visualise that without a closeup picture! ;) :D
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2009, 10:35:58 AM »
Quote
You have GOT to shoot this thing!


Yup, When ya gonna bring it over? I've long admired their looks but that price tag has kept one from coming home with me.
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Offline SmokeEater2

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2009, 10:36:55 AM »
Quote from: AtlLaw on July 31, 2009, 01:43:12 PM
Quote from: SmokeEater2 on July 31, 2009, 08:39:28 AM
as pretty as a lever gun gets.  :) 

I agree with you there!   ;D  And mine is a hoot to shoot!

Did you have any feeding problems using the SWC's?  I hear they can be tempermental about what you feed them when it comes to cartridge OAL, but I was wondering about bullet shape.   :-\


Well I had never heard that the 73's were picky about bullet shape when I started loading for it (apparently neither had the rifle  ;)) so the only bullets it's ever known are lead SWC's and some XTP's. So far its digested a wheel barrow load of the SWC's without a hitch no matter how fast or slow I was working the lever.
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2009, 01:53:28 PM »
Well that's good to know!  I won't be afraid to try them then if the oportunity arises.  Right now the 250 gr. RNFP's I'm using, 1.580 OAL, feed like glass.    :)  And with the large meplet that bullet has I won't be worried about using them this deer season if I have to.  XTP's are my first choice though.   ;D
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Richard
Former Captain of Horse, keeper of the peace and interpreter of statute.  Currently a Gentleman of leisure.
Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
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Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2009, 05:06:14 PM »
Richard, have ya checked with some of the bigger supply places yet?  Midsouth, Midway or Natchez should have some 250 XTP's.  If not PM me with your address and I'll send ya half a box I got here.  DP
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RIP Oct 27, 2017

Handi's:22Shot, 22LR, 2-22Mag, 22Hornet, 5-223, 2-357Max, 44 mag, 2-45LC, 7-30 Waters, 7mm-08, 280, 25-06, 30-30, 30-30AI, 444Marlin, 45-70, AND 2-38-55s, 158 Topper 22 Hornet/20ga. combo;  Levers-Marlins:Two 357's, 44 mag, 4-30-30s, RC-Glenfields 36G-30A & XLR, 3-35 Rem, M-375, 2-444P's, 444SS, 308 MX, 338Marlin MXLR, 38-55 CB, 45-70 GS, XS7 22-250 and 7mm08;  BLR's:7mm08, 358Win;  Rossi: 3-357mag, 44mag, 2-454 Casull; Winchesters: 7-30 Waters, 45Colt Trapper; Bolt actions, too many;  22's, way too many.  Who says it's an addiction?

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2009, 05:37:09 PM »
That's mighty generous of you DP!  I've checked every supplier I can think of, including those three you mentioned, and nobody has any.   :(  As you noticed, I whined and cried so much about not being able to get any... bullets that is... that another fine member here, "southarkrob," sent me some he had left over.  Thanks Robbie!   ;D

So I have enough to see if my rifle likes them.  But you can bet that, if I use all that I have working up a load, I'll be groveling and begging at your door step!   :D

Do you like them?

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Richard
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Offline no guns here

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2009, 06:23:38 AM »
Quote
As this ol' girl I used to date always said, "there's more in life then leather!  There's also whips and chains!"     Hum, hadn't thought of her in a long time... Man! she was like riding a ridged frame motorcycle down a rutted road... 


I guess in your vernacular, she would have probably been a "hard=tail" with a "shovel-head" and a high-perf intake?


NGH
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 45 Colt M-73 at the range
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2009, 07:23:34 AM »
 :D
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Richard
Former Captain of Horse, keeper of the peace and interpreter of statute.  Currently a Gentleman of leisure.
Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
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