Author Topic: Found a new 209 primer today, Nobel Sport Martignoni.  (Read 1929 times)

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Offline Busta

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Found a new 209 primer today, Nobel Sport Martignoni.
« on: July 20, 2009, 04:25:51 PM »
Found these today, and figured I would give them a try. When I got home, I measured them for length and diameter. They measured between .300" and .303" for length, the diameter is from .244" to.245". They are too big in diameter to fit in all my plugs except the Metrics Unlimited plugs. Nick uses a metric drill (6.2mm), which is right at .244" and after boring actually works out to .247" to .248" in my examples. For comparison some new Federal 209A primers measured .239" to .240" in diameter.

I have not fired any of these yet, but will let you know when I do. They are too large of a diameter to fit in my Knight breech plugs. The standard primer pockets for my Knights and some other aftermarket plugs I have are .242" to .244". With some loads in some rifles, I have found it is better to start with a larger diameter primer. All primers swell from blowback gases, some spring back a little, some overexpand. IMO, tight primers to start with swell less, thus stretch less, and may come out easier with some powders and loads. As you know, or should know, there are no absolutes in muzzleloading. YMMV!

Here is what they look like, just in case you are wondering, or want to try them.


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Offline coop2564

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Re: Found a new 209 primer today, Nobel Sport Martignoni.
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2009, 05:33:02 AM »
Great maybe you can try those square orings with them and let us know how they work?
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Offline john keyes

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Re: Found a new 209 primer today, Nobel Sport Martignoni.
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 07:05:41 AM »
Busta, do you like the regular ol blue winchester primers?

I just bought a thousand of them.
Though taken from established manufacturers' sources and presumed to be safe please do not use any load that I have posted. Please reference Hogdon, Lyman, Speer and others as a source of data for your own use.

Offline Busta

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Re: Found a new 209 primer today, Nobel Sport Martignoni.
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 07:45:08 AM »
Great maybe you can try those square orings with them and let us know how they work?

Coop,

I'll use that combination the next time I shoot the Sidekick. I promise! ;D Hopefully soon. I just have too many rifles, can't shoot the same one every time. I have been working on one of my .45's shooting .452" copper jacketed bullets sabotless with BH209.


John,

Yes I like the Win W209, but they have a step half way up on the diameter. The W209 starts at .239" at the front, then half way back step up to .244" diameter. These new primers might even be better. They are as long as the Win W209, but have a .244" to .245" constant diameter.
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Offline coop2564

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Re: Found a new 209 primer today, Nobel Sport Martignoni.
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 09:08:59 AM »
Great Busta Thx!
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Omega Thumbhole .50_NEF Huntsman .50
Knight KP1 .243_Custom Rem 700 .308_Browning Safari Bar .300 WSM, Ruger No.1 30-06
Taurus .41 rem mag Raging Bull_S&W M&P 40C_Browning BuckMark .22_Savage 93R .17HMR

Offline kody

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Re: Found a new 209 primer today, Nobel Sport Martignoni.
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2009, 11:09:37 AM »
   Considering what you stated about using a 6 mm [.244"] drill bit with resultant bore holes of .247" or .248" , would using  "A" size [.234"] or 15/64" [.2344"' size bits be helpful in allowing the tighter fit you like with some of the other primers?   A #1 bit at .228" seems out of the picture though.    Ken

Offline Busta

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Re: Found a new 209 primer today, Nobel Sport Martignoni.
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2009, 06:31:53 AM »
Coop,

I tried out the primers with the square O-ring last night. I was shooting some magnum loads accross the chronograph, so this wasn't the best test to test for seal, since most of the o-rings start to bleed with 120 gr loads of BH209. I did shoot three primers before heading out back to the range. All three stuck slightly and allowed some soot to bleed through between the primer and battery cup. These primers gave instant ignition, but velocities and accuracy was the worst of any loads I have ever shot with Blackhorn 209. In all fairness, the weather was hot, and once barrels heat up, I don't have the patience to wait long enough between shots. The primers bleed soot under load, and after the 12 shots I did take, the standing breech was covered in soot. Nothing like what you would get with one primer in a primer carrier, but very visable. All primers required the use of a decapper tool, so my theory was "all wet". I think these primers will only be used to pop a couple caps before loading from here on out.

The square o-ring was also a disappointment with these loads, I really thought this one may work best in the 5/8" plug. I am going out on another limb with another theory here. I think the square o-ring may be to rigid, it takes up more space than another o-ring, and therfore the primer gas is pushing past rather than expanding the ring and sealing outward as in the case of the round o-ring. It is FAR better than no o-ring however, and not bad at all. It is just not going to be "THE ONE" in my quest for no blowback with magnum loads.

I would imagine that with loads under 100 grains, that it would seal as well as the others, but that will have to wait for the next test. Sorry, but I don't think either of these will be on my short list.
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Offline Busta

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Re: Found a new 209 primer today, Nobel Sport Martignoni.
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2009, 06:40:21 AM »
   Considering what you stated about using a 6 mm [.244"] drill bit with resultant bore holes of .247" or .248" , would using  "A" size [.234"] or 15/64" [.2344"' size bits be helpful in allowing the tighter fit you like with some of the other primers?   A #1 bit at .228" seems out of the picture though.    Ken

Ken,

I would say that the final primer pocket diameter should be about .244" for most primers. Anything below .242" would need force to insert most primers. These NSI primers will not load in a .244" pocket, they are too large in diameter.

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Offline coop2564

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Re: Found a new 209 primer today, Nobel Sport Martignoni.
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2009, 08:39:47 AM »
As always thanks for the info!
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Omega Thumbhole .50_NEF Huntsman .50
Knight KP1 .243_Custom Rem 700 .308_Browning Safari Bar .300 WSM, Ruger No.1 30-06
Taurus .41 rem mag Raging Bull_S&W M&P 40C_Browning BuckMark .22_Savage 93R .17HMR

Offline Busta

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Re: Found a new 209 primer today, Nobel Sport Martignoni.
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2009, 05:48:29 PM »
Coop,

I shot that rifle again tonight with 90 gr BH209 just to see if I could do it without blowback or sticking the primers. I am happy to say that it passed the test, no blowback and primers did not stick. I did get the slight soot ring where it bleeds out between the primer and battery cup, but there aren't too many primers that don't do that. I still think the round o-rings actually work a little better, just something about the way the primer sits. I think the round o-ring actually causes a venturi effect, I only have a very minute amount of carbon around the flash hole after 30-40 shots. Last night with the square o-ring I had a funnel shaped cake of carbon that covered the whole bottom of the o-ring going all the way to the flash hole after only a dozen shots. This tells me the pressure is pushing back instead of out on the o-ring. Plus the bad accuracy and velocity swings also tell me that it is not the best choice for magnum charges.

I hope that helps?
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Offline walmpus

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Re: Found a new 209 primer today, Nobel Sport Martignoni.
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2009, 05:06:08 AM »
I have tried those primers before and they are hot.They are pretty common primers in my neck of the woods (southern ohio). My huntsman never did like them as far as accuracy was concerned, but I never had one to let me down. A friend of mine has been using them for about 5 years now with 100% success. I bought my huntsman and he went to get one and could not find one so be bought a rossi and some supplies to go with them and thats the primers he was given with his new gun. His rossi does well with them and he has never had any problems. Those primers were inexpensive as well, which is nice, I just didnt have any luck with them. I had a 3 or 4 hundred of them and gave them to my buddy. If I still had them I would glady send them your way because I dont use them any more. Hopefully you will have success with them.

walmpus