Author Topic: 357 vs 44 spc (Read 1854 times)

Jim n Iowa · « **on:** September 26, 2003, 02:00:11 PM »

I am thinking of replacing my 38 sp Colt Det sp with a Taurus 2" in either a 357 or 44sp. I reload for both, this is my in the car carry and back up. I am not a Leo and usually carry only in the truck. Primary is a 1911 45acp.
TNA
Jim

Lawdog · « **Reply #1 on:** September 28, 2003, 08:55:19 AM »

Jim,

I am a retired LEO and my advice is to FORGET the Taurus. They were a POS when they first came out and are one of the reasons we have the saying "Saturday Night Special" today. I have tried some of their models they offer now and they have done nothing to change my mind. If you want a revolver then stick with Colt, Ruger, S&W or Dan Wesson offerings and you won't go wrong. As for either the .357 or the .44 sp. I would go with the .357. Reason is that ammo is easily found for the .357. I have found that the .44 sp. ammo can be hard to find at times. Lawdog

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #2 on:** September 28, 2003, 12:33:40 PM »

Lawdog
Thanks for the reply. I bought a Taurus in 32hrmag in a 2" for my wife and I was impressed. I was #%*& at S&W and still have not forgiven them. The 44sp comes to mind as I have 3x as many cases as 357. I shoot 44sp in my 5.5 RedHawk. I may just keep the det sp as it has no tx bar and carries 5 out of 6. Probably just an itch to trade.
Jim

volshooter · « **Reply #3 on:** September 28, 2003, 12:52:11 PM »

I have a snub Taurus in .44 spc. and I love it. I'll put my Taurus up aganist any. It has been an execellent snake/rat killer and shoots outstanding groups with handloads (240 cast). Mine is all steel, blue and looks like a large S&W. I cannot speak for all Taurus pistols but the .454 Raging Bull and .44 snub I own are quality firearms. Perhaps LD is thinking of Taurus quality 20 years ago, back when they were a POS. I have no experience with the new Titanium numbers.
Rick

S.S. · « **Reply #4 on:** September 29, 2003, 08:23:05 AM »

as I understand it, the first Tauruses (TAURI ?) were made on old Smith &
Wesson Machinery. therefore some of the tolerances were a bit loose. The newer TAURI are as well made as any Smith & Wesson I have
seen recently manufactured!

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #5 on:** September 29, 2003, 12:51:44 PM »

volshooter
Do have the hammerless model in the 445? I was considering this in a ss as its 8oz lighter than the blued model. I have a m44 in a 8+" barrel my first 44mag and it does better groups than my sbh in 7.5" I think I hook on the 44sp by Taurus.
Jim

Lawdog · « **Reply #6 on:** September 29, 2003, 01:07:37 PM »

volshooter,

I am talking about the older and newer Taurus's. When they first came out a couple of guys on the force bought them for back ups. I seen them crack their frames after only a few shots, one crack on the third shot. Like I said they were a POS, in fact in my opinion they were dangerous. Just over a year ago my son bought a Raging Bull in .454 and the thing would shoot the screws loose after 20 or so shots(factory loads). Also sometimes the cases would stick in the chambers. Had to take a wood dowel and tap the cases out. He took it back and after a bit got the dealer to refund his money which he used to get a Ruger Super Redhawk. The Ruger is a much stronger weapon than the Taurus. I have seen a number of other problems with Taurus products recently that convince me that Taurus hasn't changed. Still a POS in my book. No way would I bet my life or the life of a loved one on them. Lawdog

volshooter · « **Reply #7 on:** September 29, 2003, 04:13:38 PM »

Lawdog, I'll be glad to purchase any POS Taurus relvolvers you come by.
My Raging Bull is a stainless .454 and shoots very, very good groups. The snub .44 I have has digested several thousand rounds of shot and hot handloads without problem #1. There can be bad examples in any brand, that's why we have Fords and Chevys..
Rick
BTW I also own a Super Red Hawk in .454 and it gets stuck cases and even binds the cylinder with hot loads, but it ain't no POS.

Mikey · « **Reply #8 on:** September 30, 2003, 03:40:50 AM »

Jim in Iowa: Hay man, I'd go for the 44. Question to ya is - do you prefer a 2" or are you looking for a quality revolver with a nice sized carry barrel? I think if I was faced with your choice I would probably go with the 44, since you reload you can refine the loads you want to use and carry.

Don't get me wrong, I like the 357 but not in ultra short bbls, and the same goes for the 44. I think that if I was going to purchase a revolver to fill that need I would opt for the 44 but get a S&W 44 Magnum Mountain Gun - these have the overall shape and barrel contour of the older Model 24 44 Spec, which was a real sweetheart of a revolver, and you can shoot the 44 Spl all you want but still have the capability for the heavier 44 magnum. Just M2C. But, HTH. Mikey.

Lawdog · « **Reply #9 on:** September 30, 2003, 09:23:17 AM »

volshooter,

Hot loads in any revolver can cause stuck cases. I have had the happen in Colt, Ruger and S&W. In the case of my son's Raging Bull he was shooting factory loads as the dies he had ordered had not yet arrived. I have never had a factory loaded case stick in a Colt, Ruger and S&W revolver. I know that any firearms company can and has made bad runs of whatever(rifle, shotgun, pistol, etc.) as the S&W Model 10 I was issued when I first joined the police force was recalled(faulty cylinder latch if I remember right) the day after I was issued it. It is that I have seen more faulty Taurus's than any other revolver made. This is current models I am talking about not models from the past. Also I am checking with the LEO's where we live to see how many carry a Taurus for an off duty weapon(all of the departments around here require/issue their officers .40 S&W Glocks) or for sporting use. So far I have found none that currently own one. Lawdog

Will · « **Reply #10 on:** October 02, 2003, 04:27:35 PM »

I'm gonna have to disagree with lawdog on this. I'm a pretty young fella, so I've never shot one of the old Taurus revolvers. I now have a titanium .44 spcl, and a 608 .357 magnum. The .357 has about 2000 rounds put through it with no hiccups. The .44 has around 500 rounds through it, but it's a fairly new gun, and not one I shoot alot. It is still as tight as the day I bought it. I also have a taurus 62 pump rifle, and it has to be about one of the sweetest .22's I've ever used. Several cases put through it.

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2003, 02:19:37 PM »

Mikey
Have to wait your turn on this thread to reply. I have a 5.5 redhawk that I use to test 44 mag and sp loads. Its a field carry gun and 300 gr mags is not fun after awhile. So the 44 sp appealed to me as my in the door carry truck gun to replace the 38 snub. What I would really like is a short barrel auto, ported in 45 that was affordable. Taurus makes a good gun as I have 2 now, the five shot cylinder slows me down (mind set).
Jim

myronman3 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2003, 04:35:28 PM »

well it seems lawdog has had different experiences with taurus than i have had. i have burned two brands of factory ammo through mine and full house handloads without a single problem. the taurus 357 my brother has is one of the most accurate pistols i have ever shot, and my wife had a 38 snubby (newer model) that functioned flawlessly. i wouldnt hesitate to add another taurus to the collection. matter of fact, i would take a taurus over s&w or colt anyday. i like the rugers, but a bit heavy for a carry gun of that size.

yotehunter · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2004, 06:24:05 PM »

Im alittle late here but I just have to put in my 2 cents. I own a couple Taurus revolvers and S&W revolvers. I have had problems with my S&W's but not with the Taurus's. I am currently a instructor for the NV CCW classes. I have seen a few hundred Taurus revolvers and semis come thru the course and have yet to see one fail.
They dont have the prestige of a S&W or Colt, but they have come a very long ways in the past few years and are now producing a very nice product that can stand up to the bigger names.

JohnClif · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2004, 10:31:18 PM »

Since you're carrying this in a car, why not get a longer barrel than 2" so there's less blast and more velocity? Also, the longer barrel is easier to align thus easier and faster to hit with.

If you were in a defensive situation and you could choose any gun while you are standing there, who would choose any gun with a 2" barrel if a 4" option was available?

Similarly, while the .357 is a good cartridge, velocity is used to compensate for lack of mass. As the saying goes, "Mass has a quality all it's own." The 200gr Silvertip load for the .44 Special runs at about 1,000 ft/sec out of a 4" barrel... just a little hotter than a 185gr HP from a .45 ACP and packs a little more punch (with a lot better bullet) than the famed .45 LC. It WILL hurt, and the lack of blast will make the gun easier to shoot in a defensive situation. Plus, those big holes in the cylinder make speed reloading a little easier. But we're really nitpicking here... any bad guy that you shoot with either the .357 or the .44 will say OUCH! It will just be a little easier on you to shoot the .44.

I have a S&W 696 3" .44 Special, and think this model would be ideal for your situation. Heck, a 5.5" 629 would certainly scare the bejeezus out of any bad guy and with .44 Specials would be one light-recoiling, sweet-shooting, hard-hitting gun. I'm sure that it would conceal well in your car, too.

I'm not prejudiced against similar models from Taurus, although I do think that today's S&W makes the finest revolver in the world PERIOD. The Taurus might be a little rougher but it will still work. BTW, I have found that Taurus revolvers work very well... while I'm not very fond of most Taurus pistols.

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #15 on:** February 23, 2004, 03:09:18 PM »

I carry the 44sp 2" in the side panel of the drivers door. The 2" is easy to get in action, I am not worried about blast, noise, etc in a high jack situation, just survival!! My main carry piece is a 1911-a1 tricked out, this is not easy to get in action unless its on your right side, so its not as easy to conceal. How ever you must have more experience in ccw, so please expond on your self, and your thoughts on ccw based on your experience Jim

Sundown Holly · « **Reply #16 on:** April 13, 2004, 05:46:25 PM »

I'd go for the .44. I once had to fire a 4 inch barrell .357 indoors. With no ear protection the blast and concussion almost left me stunned! I can't imagine what it would be like to fire a .357 with a 2 inch barrel in doors.

williamlayton · « **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2004, 02:04:48 AM »

Sundouwn-
Not trying to slam ya at all but PLEASE start wearing eye an ear protection wheather in or oudoors.
Blessings

Sundown Holly · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2004, 02:40:50 PM »

Hey Williamlayton, thanks for the tip. Actually, I always wear ear and eye protection whenever I am at a range, either in doors or out. The situation I mentioned above was not at a range and I was not target shooting. For years I was a big fan of the .357, even though a buddy of mine (a former instructor at the San Bernadino county Sherriffs Acadamy) warned me of what would happen if I ever had to discharge my weapon indoors. The time came and the results were as described above.

Lawdog · « **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2004, 02:40:02 PM »

williamlayton,

Wearing eye and hearing protection is a given, except when "bad guys or gals" are involved. They don't let you have time to put on hearing protection let alone protective eye glasses.

Sundown Holly,

You think the 4" .357 has a loud muzzle blast indoors try full loads in a 4" .44 Mag. or even a 4" .45 auto. Does howitzer come to mind? Lawdog

Sundown Holly · « **Reply #20 on:** April 15, 2004, 05:09:24 PM »

Hey Lawdog! I cannot imagine what a 4 inch .44 mag would sound like indoors, and I hope that I never have to find out. It's all I can do to handle a .44 mag outside (and most of the time I'd rather not!). In reviewing my previous post I came to the conclusion that it sounded like I was anti .357. Actually, I am not. In my estimation it is the most all around versatile handgun caliber there is, at least for me. In a full size revolver (especially with a long barrel!) it is about the largest magnum I would care to shoot on a regular basis. In a small snub nose I would much rather use a +P 158 gr. lead semi wad cutter hollow point for self defense rather than full power .357's. At least for me, the 158 gr. has the ideal balance of power and recoil. I used to have a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 special. It was an extremely light gun for carry, and I used to consider it the ideal back packing side arm. When I shot it, it was a little dragon in recoil, but I still wish I had it.

Mikey · « **Reply #21 on:** April 16, 2004, 04:29:09 AM »

Please try not to imagine what the muzzle blast from any caliber gun is like with 4" or less of barrel length. I think you already know. I can tell you though that even a standard pressure 45 load from a 4" bbl will hurt you and leave you deaf for a while. That is the one drawback I have to carrying my 4" lightweight Commander - the noise. But, I remember the last time I had to produce it the safety came off imediately and even though the booger was less than 2 lbs of trigger pull away from being history I never thought of the noise in the heat of that confrontation.

BTW, if you would prefer a Plus P 158 gn swc in a snubbie rather than a full power 357, which will get you little more and possibly even a little less than the cartridge should, try a standard pressure 200 gn swc 38 spl load in that snubbie. The recoil is at standard pressure levels, not plus P (pressures), is much easier on both you and the sidearm, makes it much easier for multiple shot follow-ups, and simply does not have the blast or recoil of the plus p loads. On top of all of that, it is a known performer. HTH. Mikey.

L-Roy · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2004, 05:23:26 AM »

You'll never hear the noise, or for that matter, feel the recoil.

I believe it is now called "tunnel vision" that accounts for the above.

Good load recommendations!

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #23 on:** April 17, 2004, 03:22:16 PM »

I own the Taurus 44 sp 2", it uses 200 silver tip hp now. I plan on loading hard cast for it. The old Det Spc will be missed but in my home there are only working guns, not memories.
Jim