Author Topic: Please help me choose caliber for deer (AR-15) (Read 3901 times)

Arier Blut · « **on:** July 23, 2009, 09:14:50 PM »

Well guys I am bored and looking for another project. I hate the warm months, idle hands are the devil's workshop.

Range is 400 yards and under. Deer are small southern deer, bucks usually 185, does usually 120. I reload. Not interested in .223 at all. I will most likely just be going with an upper. I was thinking 458 but that is a little overkill IMHO. So what would you suggest and why?
Thanks

Bigeasy · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2009, 10:05:53 PM »

Other than the .223, my only AR experience is with the 450 Bushmaster. A friend has one, and I have shot it quite a bit. Hits hard, and is accurate. What I like about it is that it takes the same slugs as a .45 handgun, not the larger .458 slugs somke of the other big bores require. Gives you a lot of choices for reloads, be it hunting or plinking. Of course this is not a long range caliber. Using a .223 reciever, you are somewhat limited, but there are a few 6.something mm rounds out there now that would work. Now with an AR-10 reciever,, a 7mm/08 would be a good choice...

Larry

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2009, 07:09:40 AM »

ive got an ar10 i 308 that is obviously a good choise but its not an ar15. My beowolf would no doubt fit the bill but if your talking whitetail at under 200 yards theres nothing wrong with a good accurate ar15 in .223 shooting 60 grain nos partitions.

sachel.45 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2009, 10:11:52 AM »

you could try the new remington 30 ar looks promising

Cheesehead · « **Reply #4 on:** July 24, 2009, 10:46:43 AM »

I have An AR-15 in 6.8SPC. It is hard hitting and accurate. I recommend it. Bushmaster.

Cheese

allenr · « **Reply #5 on:** July 24, 2009, 12:05:44 PM »

I have 223 and 6.8; I love them both. The 6.8 is not even close to the 223 in accuracy (@ 1.5" compared to about .5" in .223 in my rifles) but still very lethal on whitetails. I agree with sachel.45. Check out the new RAR.30; it promises to be both more accurate and more lethal than the 6.8 although still not as accurate as the 223. For ranges over 250 yards, I would look at an ar-10 with one of the Winchester Short Magnums. Just my opinion... The magnums just sound kinda kool. Might want to check out the DPMS 260AR or the old reliable 308 while you are at it. Sorry...got carried away before I noticed ya were just going with an upper lol.I guess the possibilites are almost endless if ya count the AR10 huh?

Arier Blut · « **Reply #6 on:** July 24, 2009, 02:52:12 PM »

Not interested at all in the ar10, been down that road twice. I currently use an hk91. Just looking for a project specifically for the ar 15 platform. Thanks for the input guys keep them coming.

wganz · « **Reply #7 on:** July 24, 2009, 04:20:45 PM »

Model 1 Sales now has 6.5 Grendel(they're calling 6.5 Sporter or some such) that is really sweet round. Very close to the old classic 6.5 Swede.

jasonprox700 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 24, 2009, 05:10:07 PM »

Quote from: allenr on July 24, 2009, 12:05:44 PM

I have 223 and 6.8; I love them both. The 6.8 is not even close to the 223 in accuracy (@ 1.5" compared to about .5" in .223 in my rifles) but still very lethal on whitetails. I agree with sachel.45. Check out the new RAR.30; it promises to be both more accurate and more lethal than the 6.8 although still not as accurate as the 223.

I wouldn't assume that the accuracy of your 6.8 is the typical group out of all 6.8's, same with your .223. Although I have never shot a 6.8 myself, I have seen and heard of some pretty tight groups with the 6.8, just as I've seen some very large groups with .223/5.56. Just the same with the horrible groups out of your typical 7.62x39 (AK's). It all depends on the gun. Take that horribly inaccurate round out of the AK and put it into a nice bolt gun or even an AR with a decent barrel and watch the groups shrink!

Getting back to the topic...

There are quite a few options for you. You have the 6.5 Grendel/Sporter. Out of the calibers listed, this is probably the cartridge with the most reach. I also has a wide variety of bullets to use from 85 up to 160.

Then there is the 6.8. These are very popular and probably easier to find loaded cartridges easier than the 6.5. You don't have the range or punch that the 6.5 does. Nor do you have the bullet selection. You are pretty much stuck with bullets on the lower end of the .277 spectrum.

You also have the 7.62x39. It has similar ballistics to the tried and true 30-30. You can buy ammo in bulk.

Then you have the heavy weights. .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM (my choice), and the .50 Beowulf. These all have about the same ballistics. Just from what I've seen, they're are more bullets out there for the .458, but this is mainly due to the .45-70.

Lastly, you have the WSSM family. These include the .223, .243, and .25. For deer, I would choose the .243 or .25. The .243 WSSM beats the .243 Win, and the .25 WSSM comes pretty close to the .25-06. I think the .25 would be just the ticket for deer if longer shots are in your future. You can load light (70's I think) and you can load up to 120grains, maybe more.

As you can see, you lots of choices!

gbjeep · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2009, 03:00:41 PM »

Just built a 6.5 grendel, and love the round. Getting around 2500fps w/123gr sierras. Average group is 1.5" at 200yds. Can't hunt with it in Ohio, but would like the chance. Went with the 24", so it's too heavy to pack anyway.

Arier Blut · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2009, 09:11:05 AM »

Quote from: gbjeep on July 25, 2009, 03:00:41 PM

Just built a 6.5 grendel, and love the round. Getting around 2500fps w/123gr sierras. Average group is 1.5" at 200yds. Can't hunt with it in Ohio, but would like the chance. Went with the 24", so it's too heavy to pack anyway.

Thanks for info on length being to heavy. I was thinking of a 24" for velocity. I only own 16" in the AR setup, sounds like I need to stick with it, or maybe 18".

wganz, you caused me to get a 6ppc with that model 1 link. I just couldn't pass it up. I have a few bolts in the caliber and now will see what it is like on a semi platform. Darn you for spending my money!

Still taking in all the advise for a deer caliber guys. Thanks for the help so far. I have been reading up on all the calibers a little at a time. I am truly thinking I don't need extended ranges. I can limit to 300 yards and just use the 91 past that, as I do anyways. It would just give me a light walk around rifle and the 91 could be for stationary. As I get older rifles seem to get heavier.

Maybe rifle caddies will come into fashion and I can just carry a 15# sniper rifle.

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2009, 06:19:49 PM »

If I were getting one specifically for deer hunting (which I of course wold NEVER do) I'd look long and hard at the 6.8 but iffen I could get one made up (SSK Industries comes to mind as someone who would likely do it) I'd go for a 7 TCU. It would be absolutely perfect I think.

ccoker · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2009, 09:20:44 AM »

I love my 6.8
getting 2800 FPS out of a 16" barrel and 110g barnes TTSX, sub MOA rounds and it's a new upper
my previous was an 18" mid weight stainless barrel (new one is lighter and is a lothar handlapped chrome lined)
the 18 would shoot 1/2" groups, 3/4 and under all the time

I am a big fan of AR15performance.com's work and products

I killled 3 Texas whitetails and 3 hogs with it this past year

I think of the 6.8 as a 270 short

now, with the 85g Barnes they are getting close to 3200FPS out of a 16" barrel
that's 243 velocity

I haven't tried any yet and the 110 barnes TTSX or prohunters work great
the latter would be fine for deer and fine for hogs though I prefer the TTSX just in case I hit shoulder and close range I KNOW the bullet will expand and punch clean through even big hogs

I would say 400 is pushing the limits a bit and will certainly kill deer with perfect shots, Harrison at AR15Performance killed an Elk at 400 with one...

my 6.8 is setup with a 1-4 Trijicon Accupoint scope and is what I use for stalk hunting deer and hogs and if I am going to hunt hogs at night over a feeder, usually around 75s away and I have illumination

sitting in a stand expecting 300+ yard shots I would take my 270 with a 3-10 scope

I love my little 6.8, it's compact, light and lethal.. and with a 2 point sling carries WAY better than a regular rifle with a standard sling setup.. it's right there, across my chest with the muzzle pointed down and to my left and is fast to deploy.

bipod is there just to make the pic easier to take

gypsyman · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2009, 02:07:19 PM »

I'm with Greybeard on this one. I have an AR in .223, but if I wanted to expand on calibers, either the 7tcu or 6.5tcu would be great in the AR. I've seen what either of those calibers are capable of in silhouette shooting, out of 10''T/C's. Double the barrel lenght,extra fps and can still use surplus magazines. gypsyman

skifastchad · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2009, 06:44:07 AM »

Quote from: jasonprox700 on July 24, 2009, 05:10:07 PM

Lastly, you have the WSSM family. These include the .223, .243, and .25. For deer, I would choose the .243 or .25. The .243 WSSM beats the .243 Win, and the .25 WSSM comes pretty close to the .25-06. I think the .25 would be just the ticket for deer if longer shots are in your future. You can load light (70's I think) and you can load up to 120grains, maybe more.
As you can see, you lots of choices!

And don't forget about the .30 OSSM. Olympic makes a 30cal on a WSSM case now too!

jasonprox700 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2009, 12:38:05 PM »

Yeah, I forgot about that. I really hope that one takes off!

wganz · « **Reply #16 on:** August 01, 2009, 01:38:25 AM »

Quote from: gypsyman on July 30, 2009, 02:07:19 PM

I'm with Greybeard on this one. I have an AR in .223, but if I wanted to expand on calibers, either the 7tcu or 6.5tcu would be great in the AR. I've seen what either of those calibers are capable of in silhouette shooting, out of 10''T/C's. Double the barrel lenght,extra fps and can still use surplus magazines. gypsyman

You may want to check the cartridge OAL on the two *tcu rounds. Heard that they were too long to feed through the magazine. SSK has a 6.5 MPC that is designed to feed through the standard AR mag. If the TCU rounds would function OK, doubt that they would have developed this.

There is a 6x45mm wildcat that Remington has had polls on their site about standardizing. All the users are very satisfied and say that it it great on the smallish southern whitetails < 200 meters. Blum lethal on 'yotes.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #17 on:** August 01, 2009, 05:43:47 AM »

I did not know the WSSM cartridge is an AR-15 option. The 30 WSSM sound interesting.

Cheese

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** August 02, 2009, 12:03:13 AM »

Ive been playing some with my new ar10. Its a 16 inch dpms. tell you one thing. Its a tack driver. I dont think ive shot a group over an inch with anything but ball and even ball goes 1 1/4. Its got a 1x4x30 trigicon accupoint on it that is about as fast as they come. I couldnt imagine a better big game ar. Just wish it was a lb or two lighter. In all reality its no heavier then a 24 inch bolt gun though.

wganz · « **Reply #19 on:** August 02, 2009, 01:27:26 AM »

Quote from: Cheesehead on August 01, 2009, 05:43:47 AM

I did not know the WSSM cartridge is an AR-15 option. The 30 WSSM sound interesting.

Cheese

Those are from OlyArms. Currently due to demand, there is a ~6+ month lead time to get one.

ccoker · « **Reply #20 on:** August 02, 2009, 02:47:47 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on August 02, 2009, 12:03:13 AM

Ive been playing some with my new ar10. Its a 16 inch dpms. tell you one thing. Its a tack driver. I dont think ive shot a group over an inch with anything but ball and even ball goes 1 1/4. Its got a 1x4x30 trigicon accupoint on it that is about as fast as they come. I couldnt imagine a better big game ar. Just wish it was a lb or two lighter. In all reality its no heavier then a 24 inch bolt gun though.

yeah, the DPMS are tack drivers for sure
I have the same scope on my 6.8
they are pricey little buggers but I love em

I am not one to get into caliber wars, but I tell ya, that everything I have shot with the 6.8 has reacted he same way as if I hit them with a 308, 270, etc...
real dead, real quick! and the gun is very light, I have a very light forearm, Troy Extreme and a very light stock with the Ace Skeleton

I think another real cool AR15 platform caliber is the 6WOA, it's from White Oak Arms and is a necked down 6.8 to take 6mm bullets
given their rep for doing great barrel work and the inherant accuracy of 6mm bullets it should make for a fast tack driving machine

teddy12b · « **Reply #21 on:** August 03, 2009, 08:49:30 AM »

I'd go 6.8mm SPC. I used to have a bushmaster 6.8 and it was a good gun, but I didn't get all the accuracy I wanted from it at longer range so I sold it. The 6.8 with a barnes TSX should be more than enough for and deer like you're talking about. The 30 Remington AR is still questionable in my mind because it hasn't been out long. The 6.8 has been out long enough to have a following of people. It's good that you reload though because those rounds aren't cheap.

ccoker · « **Reply #22 on:** August 03, 2009, 10:31:12 AM »

Remington is not a company I put a lot of faith in
they seem all over the map, it's more of a marketing company than anything as far as I am concerned
the 30AR may be aborted and a new "wonder cartridge" developed next year

they certainly didn't do the 6.8 justice...

Arier Blut · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2009, 05:12:15 AM »

Sorry, I've been in Germany for a while. I went with the 6.5 Grendel upper because ammo was readily available and very reasonable by today's standards. I shot it yesterday for the first time. Very pleased with the results. A guy at work had a rock river 6.8 he couldn't find ammo for. He sold for $550. I ordered some ammo for it a few minutes ago. So I think I will just use the 6.8 for home defense since it is an m4. May even utilize it as a truck gun while running the trap lines. I really didn't want or need it but you know how that goes. I couldn't pass it up.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #24 on:** October 03, 2009, 09:57:43 AM »

The 6.8 is the most popular chambering in AR15s other than .223. That says something for this cartridge.

Cheese

emsemt911 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 13, 2009, 05:57:19 PM »

can not go wrong with the 6.8 SPC.
Look into silver state armory for ammo.
I use the 110 gr Noslar

It is a good round, hits hard, drops deer/hogs in their tracks.

Arier Blut · « **Reply #26 on:** October 14, 2009, 08:44:38 AM »

Thanks guys, actually silver state was all I could find in stock when I ordered(back ordered some cheaper stuff another place as well). The 110 nosler is what I got. Good to know it will work good. I was running the rifle leaned up to a support beam to the roof of the porch and got a hair over a 2" group at 100 with a dot sight. So I may just have to try this one for hunting as well. Deer are little here and a 14" 7 tcu has whomped quite a few so I see no reason why a 6.8 won't. My plan is 6.8 for woods to small fields and the 6.5 for ag land hunting. May even talk myself into one of those big boy calibers like the beowulf, but not this year. To much money spent already.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #27 on:** October 15, 2009, 06:37:03 PM »

Quote from: Cheesehead on October 03, 2009, 09:57:43 AM

The 6.8 is the most popular chambering in AR15s other than .223. That says something for this cartridge.

Cheese

do they used the same clips??

i too am thinking of a different upper for hunting

teddy12b · « **Reply #28 on:** October 16, 2009, 02:21:32 AM »

No, the magazines are different.

Arier Blut · « **Reply #29 on:** October 17, 2009, 03:36:53 AM »

Here's where I found 6.5 and 6.8 mags reasonable. Most likely you could buy just new followers somewhere. My state is restricted to 10 rounds for hunting so I just bought these to make it simple. Really only need a 5 round for hunting, but that would probably be a pain at the bench.
http://www.44mag.com/products.asp?dept=1329