"cap grooves" in Colt Frames ????

[bedbugbilly]

I recently acquired a privately published book (from the 1980's) written by a gentleman who knew Civil War veterans as a child and who had collected, shot, gunsmithed, etc. Colt '51 Navies as well as other Colt and various manufacturer's pistols from the Civil War.  He mentions "capping grooves" which were sometimes filed in the capping rebate on the side of the frame behind the cylinder (where a loading gate would be for a cartridge revolver) as a modification by the owner to help in lining up the caps with the nipples, especially when loading "by feel" in the dark.  He claims that he knew Civil War Vets that could remove three caps at a time from their cap pouch, held between the thumb and forefinger, and that they could easily place them in this groove and quickly cap three nipples in succession.  He states that he was only able to master two caps at a time.  He evidently had run across this "capping groove" on a number of revolvers that he had worked on over the years.  I've shot BP revolvers and I think that one problem a lot of folks have is getting the cap on, especially if you have large fingers.  Everyone seems to search for the perfect "mechanical capper" but in reality, caps were originally carried in the cap pouch on the belt, retrieved from there and placed on the nipple with the thumb and fingers unless the individual was lucky enough to have a "patented capper".

I have never really paid a whole lot of attention to original Colts other than to look at an occasional photo but all of this got me to wondering just how common this "capping groove" was.  In looking at photos of originals listed un auction sites, I've seen some .36 Colt Pocket Police revolvers that have them (I've also seen some 2nd generation Colts that do) and have spotted some '51 Navies that do - some look like they might have come from the factory that way and several were obviously added at a later date.  Can any collector out there shed some light on these "capping grooves" - were some revolvers made that way at the factory while others of the same model did not have them?  Is this groove part of the difference between 1st Models, 2nd Models etc. of the same pistol such as the '51 Navy, Pocket Police, etc. 

The capping groove seems to make a lot of sense to me in regards to lining up the cap with the nipple when capping by hand - enough so, that I think that I will add one to my '51 Navy repro. .  I'd appreciate any feedback from out there if you have a "capping groove" on the pistol that yu shoot and how it works as well as how common they were on original pistols.

Thanks!

[Elijah Gunn]

I've never heard about capping grooves. Are you able to post any pics of one?

[mechanic]

Check out the second photo in this article.

http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/colt_cap_and_ball.pdf

Here is another.....

http://www.shootmagazine.com/articles/firearms/percussionrevolv.pdf

[Flint]

I have a book by Nathan L. Swayze entitled "51 Colt Navies" "Its variations and markings".  In it, the capping groove is identified as being introduced in the middle 4th Model.  Three variations of the Fourth Model.  The differences ate 1) Presence or absence of a capping groove in the percussion shield cut-out. 2) The loading lever catch under the muzzle.... is either the thick or thin type.  3) The size and location of the percussion shield cut-out.

The early Fourth Model: 1) Large rounded triggerguard. 2 The loading lever catch is the thin type. 3) The percussion shield cut-out is the larger type and placed in the lower one-half,....rather than in the middle of the shield.

The Middle Fourth Model: 1) Large rounded triggerguard.  2) The loading lever latch is the thin type. 3) The percussion shield cut-out is smaller and it is placed more in the center of the percussion shield.  4) There is a capping groove in the percussion shield cut-out.

Late Fourth Model: 10 Large rounded triggerguard.  2) The loading lever catch... is the thick type.  3) Percussion shield cut-out is the smaller, and placed more in the center..  4) There is a capping groove in the percussion shield cut-out.

So it looks like the capping groove is a late addition to the 1851, a few of the earliest production 1861 Navies lacked the capping groove.  A very few 1860 Armies had no capping groove, (only 55?) and they had Navy sized grips.

Incidently, despite the Italian repro 1861 Navies predominance of shoulder stock cut 4 screw style, the actual Colt production of the shoulder stock provision 1861 was numbered about 100, out of 38,843.

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks Elijah Gunn and Mechanic for the replies - Elijah, check out the articles that Mechanic posted the links to - the second article has a great photo of an original Colt with a "capping groove" that illustrates how it lines up the cap with the nipple.  Thanks a lot Mechanic for the links - both articles are very informative and I enjoyed reading them - lots of good hints and information!

I'm still curious as to why some original Colts had the "capping grooves" and others did not.  Were the ones that had them an "improved" model?  What caused or why did Colt start including them on some of their pistols?  I'm assuming that it was probably due to feedback from the field and people using them or ordnance workers . . . . . but then one should never "assume" anything as we all know what the word "assume" spells!  ;-)  I've seen the groove on the "Pocket Police" (fluted cylinder model) and the 1851 Navy but never on a '60 Army.  The photo in the second article which shows the groove which is stated to be a photo of an original Colt Army so some of them obviously also had them.  "Curiosity killed the cat" but I'd love to know more about the groove, when they were adopted by Colt to be put on their pistols (year and what models) and whether or not all pistols produced after that date had them or if it was selective.

They say a man is only as good as his "shooting iron" (tongue in cheek).  A lot of BP revolver shooters that have been shooting for years will probably have forgotten more than any of us will ever know.  I think it is interesting to learn about these little "improvements" that can be made to a pistol that can improve loading and performance - just makes the hobby more fun!  Thanks for your posts - my apologies to Elijah Gunn for not posting a photo and my thanks to Mechanic for posting a link that provides great articles and an illustration of the "capping groove" that I am referring to.  My computer knowledge is somewhat limited and I'm still trying to figure out how to post a photo!  Thanks!

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks Flint for the info - it is greatly appreciated!  I don't know why these little things interest me so much other than I just am curious.  I really need to get a good book on Colts I guess to satisfy my curiosity when I get focused on some little thing like this!  ;-)  While I don't shoot as often as I'd like, I do like to look at the photos of old Colts, Remingtons, etc. and looking at the differences in the same models, finishes, holster wear, etc.  While a nice pristine "mint" original is nice to look at, I really prefer to study those that have honest and unrestored "wear".  After all, they were "working tools" of the time and if something is used, it is going to show it.  I'm intrigued with "improvements" - whether factory "changes" or owner / gunsmith repairs and inprovementss.  While I've been involved in BP shooting for a good 45 years, most of my experience has been with collecting and building rifles (flint and percussion) and shooting NSSA and full size Civil War cannons (20 + years ago).  Last winter, my wife and I wintered in Arizona for the first time and I had a chance to attend an "Antique Cowboy Show" up at Tucson - what an experience!  Lots of antique "cowboy gear" to see - things that aren't so common here in Michigan - and quite a few pistols to look at - from an original Patterson up through late 1800s Colt cartridge pistols.  It sort of "fanned the fire" - so to speak  in peaking my interest in shooting BP revolvers again as well as getting into making holsters, etc.  It was a thrilll to be able to look at and study original pieces and I began to notice the "differences" in some of the same models, especially the Colt Navies and Armies.  A number of "documented" pistols were there (some including their original holsters) - just wished they could have talked and benn able to tell their story!  Thanks again for the information as it is helpful - greatly appreciate it!  The willingness to help and share is what makes this board so great!

[Elijah Gunn]

Thanks for setting up the links mechanic. Very good pics, just what I thought it would look like based on bedbugbillys description. I got em bookmarked for future reference.

[StrawHat]

Incidently, despite the Italian repro 1861 Navies predominance of shoulder stock cut 4 screw style, the actual Colt production of the shoulder stock provision 1861 was numbered about 100, out of 38,843.

I am shocked and dismayed that the replica manufacturers are trying to mislead us!  I mean, next you'll be saying Colts did not make those revolvers in varying barrel lengths and the 1851 was not available in 44!

Is nothing sacred?

[Flint]

Funny, StrawHat.

Actually, Colt did build a prototype/experimental 1851 in 40 caliber.  Now that might have been a good thing...................

[filmokentucky]

Thanks Elijah Gunn and Mechanic for the replies - Elijah, check out the articles that Mechanic posted the links to - the second article has a great photo of an original Colt with a "capping groove" that illustrates how it lines up the cap with the nipple.  Thanks a lot Mechanic for the links - both articles are very informative and I enjoyed reading them - lots of good hints and information!

I'm still curious as to why some original Colts had the "capping grooves" and others did not.  Were the ones that had them an "improved" model?  What caused or why did Colt start including them on some of their pistols?  I'm assuming that it was probably due to feedback from the field and people using them or ordnance workers . . . . . but then one should never "assume" anything as we all know what the word "assume" spells!  ;-)  I've seen the groove on the "Pocket Police" (fluted cylinder model) and the 1851 Navy but never on a '60 Army.  The photo in the second article which shows the groove which is stated to be a photo of an original Colt Army so some of them obviously also had them.  "Curiosity killed the cat" but I'd love to know more about the groove, when they were adopted by Colt to be put on their pistols (year and what models) and whether or not all pistols produced after that date had them or if it was selective.

They say a man is only as good as his "shooting iron" (tongue in cheek).  A lot of BP revolver shooters that have been shooting for years will probably have forgotten more than any of us will ever know.  I think it is interesting to learn about these little "improvements" that can be made to a pistol that can improve loading and performance - just makes the hobby more fun!  Thanks for your posts - my apologies to Elijah Gunn for not posting a photo and my thanks to Mechanic for posting a link that provides great articles and an illustration of the "capping groove" that I am referring to.  My computer knowledge is somewhat limited and I'm still trying to figure out how to post a photo!  Thanks!

That's not an original 1860 Colt. It's not even a second or third generation gun. It's an Italian made revolver. The real purpose of the capping groove was to facilitate use of a standard capper, not for fitting caps by hand. If you look at your Colt, you'll notice that the groove is useless for this purpose.  The best way to keep cap debris out of the mechanism, is to do what they did in period. As you cock the revolver after the shot, you raise the muzzle and the spent cap will rotate out of the gun in the groove provided for this purpose in the right hand recoil shield. There's no need to redesign the guns as suggested by the SASS author. This should be banned from the sport, but it's no longer about having fun and shooting the old guns. It's hardcore competition by people who train at the professional level. Shame they had to go and spoil it. Now they're allowed to ruin C & B revolvers, too.

[StrawHat]

Funny, StrawHat.

Actually, Colt did build a prototype/experimental 1851 in 40 caliber.  Now that might have been a good thing...................

Speculation on my part but with the technology of the day, the 40 was probably too much of a good thing.  Later, Colts was able to increase the caliber to 44 and that made the grade.  The 36 was kept because it sold well and the 44 was better.

[madcratebuilder]

The cap groove in the recoil shield started to appear in late Dragoons.  They did not use the 1st, 2nd or 3rd model that is used now.  The groove was pretty standard from the baby Dragoon on.  The intent was a path for fired caps to leave the revolver.
On the replicas this groove can vary considerably from gun to gun.  I well often open this groove up to aid in eliminating/reducing cap jams.

All of my 2nd and 3rd gen Colts have a very well machine groove with the exception of the Walkers and Dragoons.
I have a old Uberti 51 that jammed a lot until I opened the cap groove.  Enlarging the groove, adding a better radius really improved the cap jamming problem with that particular revolver.

Have any of you guys seen the "cap shield" that was patented by Manhattan revolvers.  A thin shield that fit the recoil shield and blocked the path of the cap back into the hammer recess. It was actually between the hammer nose and the cap.

Here is a late Dragoon with the cap groove plainly visible.

[coyotejoe]

We're in two different "grooves" here.

[madcratebuilder]

We're in two different "grooves" here.

My bad, I skipped a groove.
My 2nd and 3rd gen Colts, the 60, 61, and 62 pocket police have the capping groove.  Funny the 62 Navy does not, nor any of my 51's.

I use a capping tool that holds a dozen or so caps but if capping with your fingers that groove does help.  Has anyone seen a period capping tool of sorts?