Author Topic: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil  (Read 1306 times)

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Offline benny123

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New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« on: July 25, 2009, 12:02:10 PM »
A few weeks ago I bought a Freedom Arms 6" Premier 454--2 mag-na-port. I really admire this revolver and enjoy the rituals associated with cleaning and shooting it but I am concerned with my accuracy I found that gloves keep my right thumb from getting cut but I am really struggling with keeping 'er stable when using "full power" factory loads. This morning I shot about 15 rounds of Magtech 260gr ammo but felt myself flinching a lot when squeezing the trigger. I was able to relax only when shooting 45LC 250gr and then, thankfully, i had around a 2-3" grouping at 25 yards-- which at least was near my intended target.

 It doesn't hurt so much as put me on edge for the next shot. Wondering how much impact things like a scope and barrel length can have on recoil. Do you find a significant difference in either scoped or longer barreled versions?


Offline Graybeard

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2009, 01:06:40 PM »
Yes the scope tames recoil a bunch. I think tho what you really need to do is to slowly work up to the level of recoil this gun generates. I suspect it's WAY more than anything you've owned before right? Start low and work up slowly to learn to deal with the recoil. You might even find there is a point below max that you can tolerate even tho most refuse to admit to that.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline Ken ONeill

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2009, 04:19:22 PM »
Barrel length won't make much difference, but as Greybeard says, the weight of a scope, base and rings will dampen felt recoil a bit. The gun will almost certainly shoot better than an inch at 25 yds. in skilled hands.
The answer is to build up in skill and power of loads, increasing only as you can master the recoil at that level. Use .454 brass, not .45 Colt brass. It will take a while, and many rounds to become truly proficient with and master the .454.

Offline odoh

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2009, 05:36:59 PM »
I'm not up to factory level yet myself but enjoying the journey. I recently acquired a single-point sling connected to the lanyard/sling swivel I mounted to the bottom of the grip frame. Looped over my shoulder adjusted so that I've opposing tension to help control ~ I suppose I could/should step upto factory level now but will probably continue to enjoy it as is until I need the extra horsepower. Also, a padded shooting glove can work wonders.


Sometimes theres a test target w/the revolver from the factory to indicate what its real capability is.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2009, 05:45:03 PM »
When you think you're ready try the heavy weights from COR-BON. They sent me some 360s for the review I was doing on the FA83 and RB454. In the RB they were no big deal but in the FA83 without a scope they brought blood on every shot. It was hard to concentrate long enough to get a group with them and the blood running down onto the grips didn't help. With the scope it was just enough difference to allow me to shoot decent groups.

Of all the loads I shot in those reviews that was the worst of the lot. I was shooting from 100-150 rounds daily thru those two guns and some days even more. It was an endurance contest for sure. The guns won I think at least when the reviews were over I sure didn't feel like I had won but just survived.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline benny123

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accidental second post
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2009, 08:54:39 PM »
created two entries accidentally

Offline benny123

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2009, 08:57:56 PM »
Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately my living conditions bar handloading.  So experimenting and getting comfortable with increasing loads will have to come through factory ammunition. So far I have purchased Winchester reduced velocity and silvertip, Magtech, and Winchester 45LC rounds.

Not being able to handle the 454 factory loads left me with a feeling of being dejected. I looked around the range to see if anyone noticed me sheepishly reaching for the "cowboy" 45LC rounds. At this point I hadn't shot them and from research it sounded OK so long as it wasn't before the 454 loads.  I felt like it was the equivalent of riding a bike with training wheels. But better to hit the target with a weak load than not at all.

What was strange is that the recoil from the 454 loads didnlt feel that bad. Sure, I learned to wear gloves which helped with cuts on the thumb, but it seemed like a lot of my unsteadiness resulted from the sheer sound and the abrupt buck of the load. The recoil itself didn't hurt me physically, it was more of the intensity of it all that I had a hard time with. Also felt, in hindsight, the trigger had to be squeezed about 3 seconds after pulling focus on the target. More and my shoulders would tighten and anxiety rise for the next shot.  i think I had this idea that if I waited longer things would suddenly just "click" and the bullets appear where i wanted.


When I was a teenager my father would take me out to the desert to shoot targets. I was always attracted to the larger handguns. At the time he had a 10mm Colt, a Dan Wesson 357 Maximum and a 44 Super Redhawk. Though we predominantly shot the 22 and small caliber rifle rounds (223/mini14) because of cost, there was a thrill when shooting the larger handguns. I really enjoyed the 357 round because it did not have alot of recoil, was accurate, and it felt fast and powerful. The Super Redhawk was cool but it always managed to pinch my hand for some reason. 

Reminiscing with colleagues from work is what brought me to a recent gun show. There I saw the Freedom Arms 454 Casull.
I knew of it because I was eyeing a 353 version that I spotted in a local ad a few weeks back. This seller had probably had about 30 pistols laid out on the table but the 454 Casull didn't get alot of attention. For me it was the only thing I saw. I went back the next day (the last of the show) expecting it to be gone. Needless to say, it wasn't. I don't know about her history other than the seller saying she was exposed only to a handful of rounds, but regardless I was ready to be the surrogate.

This was a way for me to bring back nostalgia. Granted I could have just bought a 22 caliber something or other, but I feel like craftsmanship and quality are a big part of the underlying experience. I am really proud to own such a fine instrument. Just looking at it makes me happy.

Well, I am looking forward to going to the range and practicing this week. Hopefully, I can relax a little more this time.

The sling strategy seemed like a smart way to carry and restrain some of the bite at the same time. Probably suited more for a longer barreled version, eh.?

Again thanks for the comments they felt reassuring.

'night

Offline sasu

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2009, 04:20:47 AM »
I have heard that people have only two basic fears they are born with: loud noises and heights. I cannot testify as to the truth of that claim, but I have noticed in my own shooting that my flinches do not come from the kick of the recoil but from the blast and noise. I even flinch with my semi-auto 308 if I do not concentrate, and that rifle has no kick at all but makes a loud noise.

The only way to overcome the flinch is to concentrate, almost to a zen like state of mind, and shoot and shoot and shoot, so that ignoring the blast becomes routine. When you take a longer break from shooting, the flinch returns again. It is a never ending battle against your primary instincts.

Speaking of recoil, how about a friend of mine trying out my 500 Wyoming Express, with 400 gr at approx 1300 fps:
http://heggis.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Shooting/M4H00079.MP4

Offline Axehandle

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2009, 09:17:10 AM »
FWIW I have a ported 6 inch FA 454 and an unported 7.5 inch FA 454....  Shooting the two guns side by side the perceived recoil of the 7.5 inch gun is significantly less...  For me the trick to shooting these things is to limit your true 454 level ammo shooting sessions to only a couple of cylinders, wear a good shooting glove, and shoot them on a regular basis......

Offline benny123

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2009, 05:57:12 PM »
Shot a box worth of Magtech (260gr) followed up by 45lC 250gr.

Though I didn't shoot that much better I wasn't fearing the shots. I did tape left my index finger and right thumb as well as wearing weight lifting style gloves. This time i ceased shooting the 454 loads because of cost not discomfort.

For some reason I seem to be shooting low--like several inches at 25 yards. Whereas when shooting the 45LC rounds I am round the center of the target. I figured it should be the other way around due to the enhanced velocity of the 454.

I will search this forum for tips on siting-in a gun.



Offline sasu

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2009, 06:31:04 PM »
The bullet leaves the barrel in mid recoil, i.e. the recoil begins the moment the bullet starts moving inside the gun.

A higher velocity load will hit lower in the target because the barrel has less time to rise up before the bullet is out. A lower velocity load will hit higher because the bullet trundles along inside the barrel for a longer time while the barrel is going up.

This phenomenon is more pronounced in powerful guns, like the 454 Casull.

Offline benny123

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2009, 07:12:07 PM »
insightful, sasu. i hadn't even thought about the effect of recoil. i just got done cleaning it and found almost every screw loose--including the front sight.

Because they're all pretty small and my flat head wasn't a perfect match, I didn't apply a lot of torque.

Do you add loc-tite? Seems strange as I only shot 'bout 40 shots total (20 of which were 454) I'd rather not go messing with it but at the same time the screws should stay tight.


Offline sasu

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2009, 07:58:07 PM »
That is one of the prices you pay for shooting a powerful cartridge: you have to keep checking that all the screws are tight.

I do not use Loctite myself, except if there is some really stubborn screw that does not hold at all, e.g. the cylinder latch screw on a S&W double action revolver. I am very careful not to over tighten the screws, which could lead to stripped threads. It is a delicate balance.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2009, 11:43:32 AM »
Yes use loctite and get screwdrivers that fit properly and are flat ground. You're gonna be using them a lot and if you don't you'll ruin the screws in short order.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline benny123

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2009, 06:17:02 PM »
Found your Loctite (think you said 'blue') tip on a previous post.

thanks

Offline benny123

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Re: New FA 454 Casull Owner/barrel length and recoil
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2009, 07:30:57 PM »
I have heard that people have only two basic fears they are born with: loud noises and heights. I cannot testify as to the truth of that claim, but I have noticed in my own shooting that my flinches do not come from the kick of the recoil but from the blast and noise. I even flinch with my semi-auto 308 if I do not concentrate, and that rifle has no kick at all but makes a loud noise.

The only way to overcome the flinch is to concentrate, almost to a zen like state of mind, and shoot and shoot and shoot, so that ignoring the blast becomes routine. When you take a longer break from shooting, the flinch returns again. It is a never ending battle against your primary instincts.

Speaking of recoil, how about a friend of mine trying out my 500 Wyoming Express, with 400 gr at approx 1300 fps:
http://heggis.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Shooting/M4H00079.MP4



For me the video/audio were not in sync. Heard the round discharge but couldn't see any sort of reaction--maybe my connex speed.Real nice setting, definitely preferable to the indoor range atmosphere I am getting used to.

 BTW, I could really relate to your comments. Its funny because the closer you get to calming your self, slowing your breathing, releasing your mind of any worry or doubt-- so on and so forth--the the further you are for preparing yourself for the recoil. The recoil which is affecting the accuracy of your shot.