Author Topic: 45 Colt Self Defense Loads (Read 3339 times)

powhs · « **on:** July 26, 2009, 01:52:36 PM »

I picked up a Taurus 45 LC revolver with a 2 inch barrel last week. I was happy to find two boxs of Speer 250 Gold Dot ammo. Speer claims 750 fps. I chronoed it to an average 618 fps. Was wondering if it has the power to use as a self defense load. I don't think it will expand. Would WW Silvertips be any better?

v-man · « **Reply #1 on:** July 26, 2009, 02:56:07 PM »

Not trying to be a "naysayer" but when I first got the itch for a Taurus Ti snubby I went with the 45LC. Chrono'd every factory load and handload I could come up with but due to the 2" barrel I never found one that could reach the velocity I needed for my own minimum expectaion of 400ft/lbs of energy. I sold it and got the .357 version instead. Much better in my opinion. Others will reply and tell you I am wrong because the big bore bullet is the "golden chalise" of self defense but I felt it was just too slow for my comfort level. If you find a load you feel good about that is all that counts. Good Luck.

powhs · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2009, 10:49:07 AM »

I reloaded some standard power 250 grain swc's and got them to shot 700 fps. They should make good trail loads. Any body have any knowledge of the 200 Gold Dots? Wonder if they will have good penatration for self defense carry.

Savage · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2009, 11:23:10 AM »

The 250 gr GDs may not expand at 600fps, but bet they leave an exit wound!
Savage

Mohawk · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2009, 12:44:02 PM »

I wish Buffalo Bore would produce a "Short Barreled" version of the .45 LC they way they did with the .38. I have the .38 standard pressure version and it was very accurate and has a nice soft-swaged Keith SWC HP. It's even faster than commercial +P loads with the same style bullet and remains at standard pressure. But at 618fps I don't see much of anything expanding. If it were me, I would just stick with a factory 225-250gr SWC.

LouisianaMan · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2009, 01:40:45 PM »

Speer GDs are fine ammo whose intended vel is 800fps +/-50fps (per their email to me--not the 900fps I've often seen cited). I can't imagine that they'll expand at the low vels you chrono'ed from your snubbie. Therefore, little point in paying a premium for GDHPs that won't likely give you the one benefit you're really paying for: expansion.

Since you're interested in the potential of 200g HPs, you may want to chrono them and see if you feel like they'd give you the expansion you want. Ditto for Federal 225g LHPs, although their velocity in my guns makes me question the likelihood of expansion from a short barrel. Silvertips chrono slower than Federal in my guns; I'd expect them to expand when fired in my 7 1/2" Vaquero, but probably not in my 4" Mountain Gun and definitely not in my 3 1/2" Birdshead Cattleman.

Personally, at snubbie vels you're liable to get w/o creating a hand-cannon, I'd go with a full-weight lead bullet to ensure penetration. Try to get a flat point or SWC rather than a LRN, if possible. But at close range, a bunch of .45s at any vel would probably ruin the day of anyone who provoked such behavior modification!

powhs · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2009, 08:14:09 AM »

I loaded a few 250 Gold Dots useing tightgroup powder. At 710 fps they expanded to about 60 cal. when fired into water filled one gallion milk jugs. They penatrated through two and stopped in the third. I think the expanded bullet slowed penatration. Recoil was almost the same as factory 250 WW which went through 5 milk jugs and keep going. I wish I could find a 225gr HP mold or soft lead hp bullets.
Might be better off loading a soft swc or full wadd cutter bullet if you could find one.

LouisianaMan · « **Reply #7 on:** July 29, 2009, 01:45:48 PM »

Mt. Baldy Bullets sells SWC and full WC .45LC bullets. I've shot some of the latter--255g weight. I think BH is 11, so it's not dead-soft. Maybe he'll cast 'em softer for you?

Robert357 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 02, 2009, 11:34:48 PM »

Quote from: powhs on July 27, 2009, 10:49:07 AM

I reloaded some standard power 250 grain swc's and got them to shot 700 fps. They should make good trail loads. Any body have any knowledge of the 200 Gold Dots? Wonder if they will have good penatration for self defense carry.

Now I better understand the 38 Special +P or 45 LC thread.

As I stated in the other thread, I like heavier bullets all things considered. Elmer Keith type heavy SWC hard cast lead bullets might be something you might consider in your 45 LC snubie. I handload some 300 grain 45 LC bullets. Some feel that after a certain caliber size, the real important issue is penetration and ability to break bone and continue to penetrate.

KAYR1 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 03, 2009, 07:39:41 AM »

a 250 grain bullet over black powder killed a lot of cowboys and indians! Not what I'd use, but food for thought

45-70.gov · « **Reply #10 on:** August 03, 2009, 09:40:56 AM »

i bet a LBT WFN would be a good do all slug in any weight

thtas what is in my 45s 44s and 357s

trotterlg · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2009, 01:45:19 PM »

I think that anything that comes out the end of a 45 Colt barrel would be plenty to get the job done. I think you are likely over worrying the problem. Larry

gstewart44 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2009, 12:33:58 PM »

Quote from: KAYR1 on August 03, 2009, 07:39:41 AM

a 250 grain bullet over black powder killed a lot of cowboys and indians! Not what I'd use, but food for thought

Along those same lines the British adopted the 455 Webley, firing a 265 gr all lead bullet at 650 fps. On paper this yields about 250 ft/lbs of energy but was extremely effective in stopping charges by Zulus or Afghans alike. They even had one hollow point load for police work called the Manstopper.

Old Griz · « **Reply #13 on:** September 06, 2009, 10:48:59 PM »

Reed's Ammo (one of our fine sponsors here at GBO) has 3 standard pressure .45 Colt loads:

1. A 185g Golden Saber Hollow-Point, at 1150FPS;
2. a 250g Hornady XTP at 850FPS; and
3. a 255g Lead Semi Wad-cutter at 850FPS.

http://shop.reedsammo.com/category.sc?categoryId=160

Those Golden Sabers are really flying. You might want to give them a shot. (Yes, pun intended.)

Masterblaster1 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 11, 2009, 09:44:02 AM »

Cor-Bon makes a 200 grain Hollow Point load at 1100 fps that is quite explosive

rawhidekid · « **Reply #15 on:** September 14, 2009, 03:41:44 AM »

Let me get this strait. People think shooting a little bullet fast enough to MAYBE EXPAND from .357 to maybe .42 in size is good. But a bullet that is already .45 that may not expand is bad? I will take the .45 Colt for self defence on people with the 225 grn Silvertip or 200 grain Gold Dot anytime. For in the woods go with 255 or 300grn.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 14, 2009, 01:47:49 PM »

Quote from: rawhidekid on September 14, 2009, 03:41:44 AM

Let me get this strait. People think shooting a little bullet fast enough to MAYBE EXPAND from .357 to maybe .42 in size is good. But a bullet that is already .45 that may not expand is bad? I will take the .45 Colt for self defence on people with the 225 grn Silvertip or 200 grain Gold Dot anytime. For in the woods go with 255 or 300grn.

I totally agree , my 90% carry gun is a 4" Taurus Tracker in 45LC , with a 250 Win silvertip hp I never feel under gunned , I may have to give Ron Reed a call about his 185's though .

Curt Dawson · « **Reply #17 on:** September 14, 2009, 02:18:58 PM »

I had good expierence with the 225 gr. WW silvertip out of a 4 5/8" barreled Blackhawk.

NickSS · « **Reply #18 on:** October 05, 2009, 12:16:34 AM »

I am old fashioned in the fact that I like the 45 colt loaded with either a round flat nose bullet ore a Keith SWC both in the 250 to 255 gr range for my defense loads. I load them to around 850 fps and figure they are good enough for my needs. I have not shot people with these loads but I have shot coyote and wild hogs with it and it does the trick surprisingly well. I one time shot a charging 200 pound boar at 20 yards with a Keith SWC with my 4 5/8 colt and it hit the ground and skidded 5 feet and was dead when I got to him. The bullet hit him in the forehead and penetrated down its neck and into the body. I have also shot a couple of 200 to 250 pound bores with chest shots and they either dropped right there or ran a few yards before dropping. I cast my bullets from soft alloy (30-1 lead tin) and they expand but do not loose weight. I recovered the bullet from the first bore mentioned and it was around .65 inch in diameter.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #19 on:** October 05, 2009, 04:11:22 AM »

The "experts" always tell us to use factory bullets for self defence. This is supposedly so a lawyer can not say we cooked up a load expecialy nasty to shoot people. I used to carry the Silvertips, but a friend tryed one on a couger in the shoulder and it expanded on the bone without breaking it. I now use the Hornady Leverlution. The Silvertips have had a good trackrecord on people, but I'm always willing to try something new.

jimster · « **Reply #20 on:** October 05, 2009, 06:23:59 AM »

I very rarely shoot factory loads in 45 Colt, I still have a couple of boxes of those, but won't shoot them unless I get hard up for needing more brass and I'm still able to find brass.

I also think a 250/255 grain cast bullet at 850 fps will handle most anything that comes up. Don't care if it expands, it's .45 already. If, God forbid, I would need to shoot a two legged critter with a handload and some lawyer got involved I'll worry about that then, but in this state, if self defense is justified, you can use a Ford truck if ya have to and it's all ya got. I can't see how a lawyer can make a "Silvertip Hollow Point" that is designed to create a huge wound sound better than a lead cast bullet (like the cowboys used) that does not expand...I do believe I could make him look pretty stupid in court representing myself....I could bring pictures that show what these factory hollow points can do.

Now why would anyone want to make a hole in somebody that big?

Frank V · « **Reply #21 on:** October 05, 2009, 07:15:10 AM »

A factory load I like a lot is the Federal 225gr lead SWC HP Federal lists it at 900fps, I have chronographed it at 858 from a 5-1/2" bbl. I'm not sure just how much you'd loose from a 2" bbl, but I still think it'd be a load to try. It's very accurate, easy to shoot, not a +P so not hard on the gun.
Frank

rawhidekid · « **Reply #22 on:** October 05, 2009, 10:41:19 AM »

You used to find the Blazer "flying ashtray" 200 grn at a reported 1000 fps. Out of a two inch it would still be close to 750fps I would think.

Plus it is a throw-a-way case.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** October 05, 2009, 10:47:23 AM »

hum , a 357 mag. still has the highest one shot stopping record . But not in a 2 inch bbl. A 2inch bbl anything is not a long range gun best shoved in a face or chest and emptied if the need arises . truth be known either size bullet would work if the shooter puts the front of the bbl where it needs to be . The 357 gun would be a easier gun to carry .
Then there is the bear thing ...........

rawhidekid · « **Reply #24 on:** October 05, 2009, 10:56:06 AM »

It used to be the 125 grn Federal had the honur. It is my understanding the 135 grn .40 took it away.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:29:12 AM »

Was that on paper or in actual shootings ? Just asking haven't seen anything .
I read somewhere the 40S&W is almost the same as a 38-40 which was the round many carried in the old west .

rawhidekid · « **Reply #26 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:49:36 AM »

Actual shootings. I used to sell guns & was active in IDPA, the Cowboy Shoot. I had to stay current to assist customers. That is why the law enforcement comunity carries .40's not .357

They went to 7's for higher capacity and then .40's for more consistent nock down. Now the big thing is double action semi=auto's. Sorry for getting off topic.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #27 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:53:33 AM »

Sorry almost forgot. :(I also read the same thing about the 38-40; have no idea how true. But Ruger did make some combo 38-40 / 40 S&W conversion Vaquaros. I actualy held one that was a Texas Ranger comemrative.

Frank V · « **Reply #28 on:** October 06, 2009, 06:40:59 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 06, 2009, 02:29:12 AM

Was that on paper or in actual shootings ? Just asking haven't seen anything .
I read somewhere the 40S&W is almost the same as a 38-40 which was the round many carried in the old west .

That is correct. We can discover this by looking at any number of loading manuals & comparing the data. What isn't mentioned is that the old black powder loads mostly used then were actually faster than some of our modern smokeless loads now. Also the pressure curve is way different between black & smokeless.
Frank

But back to the subject!!! I think the .45 Colt even in a 2" bbl would be a fine defense cartridge. Remember it starts out at .452 - .454.
FV

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #29 on:** October 06, 2009, 07:27:42 AM »

I don't care to be shot with it