Author Topic: I want a trail hip cannon - help me choose (Read 4538 times)

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #30 on:** August 11, 2009, 06:14:27 PM »

James Bond and his .25 Beretta(?) was a little extreme but the concept has value.

What will you actually carry...all the time? If it's left behind it's of no use.

What do you actually shoot very well? Noise without hits are of no use.

What are the most probable threats? Possibilities are endless and you can't anticipate all of them.

I will actually carry a M10 or M15 4" but my 6" M28 usually gets left behind.

I shoot +P .38 Special LSWC very well.

Probable threats in my area, in order of likelihood: skunks and porcupines that might injure my dog, mountain lions, and MAYBE a disrespectful human. No big bears in SE Wyoming. Enraged moose are possible and highly unlikely if I stay alert and give them plenty of space.

Many will Pooh-pooh my choices...to each his own. Whatever the choice, it needs to be a practicial solution to real world situations that focus on probabilities, not just obscure possibilities.

Dand · « **Reply #31 on:** August 11, 2009, 10:19:40 PM »

I second a 4 in 44 mag or 45 Colt. Much easier to carry than a longer barrel. I carry a m57 4 inch or 657 mt gun in 41 mag. I live in Bristol Bay area of Alaska, serious brown bear country. Guess I got on the 41 kick back when Dirty Harry and the Pipeline drove 44 mag prices insane.

But the 44 is so much more available and in greater variety.
I carry cast 265 loads by Corbon, Buffalo or Alaska Backpacker, or home loads. Also 250 gr Corbon or Federal stuff.

I carry the gun in an Alaska Sportsman's Chest Holster and have been very happy with it except for the steel snap clip than can scrape up wood on a nice long gun. Also wish there was a better alternative to the plastic clip on the retaining strap. Can be hard to release in a tight situation. But it stays clipped and I don't worry about losing the gun when I'm bushwacking thru thick alders ( imagine continuous limbo or crawling almost on hands and knees). The gun stays close to my chest and doesn't hang up on brush like a hip holster. Reasonably light wt and moderate price.http://www.alaskasportsmanproducts.com/

Another choice made in Alaska and popular with many is the holster made by Simply Rugged but I haven't used one: The Chesty Puller Conversion System: http://www.simplyrugged.com/store/index.html

Haven't had experience with bears real close and muzzle blast - happily. But at moderate ranges they often don't react at all to gun shots. I have fired at the feet and over the heads of several brown bears at 30 yds to 60+ yds and most cases the bears ignore it or don't seem to know what is going on (300 win mag or 41 mag). Even shooting the water in front of a bear and making quite splash had little effect on one last year. He only reacted when I nearly hit him in the nose with a rock and I wonder if it was that he smelled my scent on the rock. He ran off but I was about ready to heave another rock that I had first rubbed in my pits. I'd been out on a float trip for several hot days and was getting pretty stinky.

HTH

Jerry J · « **Reply #32 on:** August 13, 2009, 05:06:44 PM »

I love my Smith Classic 5" blue with the under lug, but I find in a bit heavy for everyday carry. I had a 329, the recoil really wasn't as bad as some would have you believe. I practiced with 44spl loads and carried 180gr Federals. I sold it, not because of the recoil but I found it was so light as to be difficult to hold on target a little weight is usefull. This is one item I've rarely seen discussed about with the scadium frames. I was debating between a 629 mountain gun and a 3" 629, a deal came to me in the form of the 3" 629 (old style) and I love it. Good luck on your choice and let us know what you decide. Jerry J

Casull · « **Reply #33 on:** August 13, 2009, 07:45:35 PM »

Quote

if i gotta shoot a bear out of season I dont give a rats ass what is next! If i gotta shoot one I aint waiting to be sure I get powder burns! better to be judged by 12 than carried by six! the key word is gotta

Easy enough to put the powder burns on there after he's down.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #34 on:** August 14, 2009, 04:40:36 AM »

I don't know that CSI stuff is getting better

Dand · « **Reply #35 on:** August 14, 2009, 08:51:10 PM »

Maybe this article will help you decide:
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/bears/story/897940.html

Twig snap alerts dog-walker to charging grizzly
SOLDOTNA: Pistol-packing
By MIKE CAMPBELL

mcampbell@adn.com
Published: August 13th, 2009 09:34 PM
Last Modified: August 14th, 2009 06:45 PM
Greg Brush was walking his dogs near his Soldotna home August 2, 2009 when he was attacked by a brown bear he later estimated at 900 pounds. Brush shot and killed the starving bear as it charged him without warning, he said. He had spared others on his property.

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #36 on:** August 15, 2009, 04:33:05 AM »

Read the story and the first 10 or 12 comments. Wow!

Two impressions: the probability is small but such attacks do happen, and lots of goofballs have internet access.

My S&W Model 15 is a reasonable choice in SE Wyoming but it would not get the nod in SE Alaska or any other part of Alaska.

S.B. · « **Reply #37 on:** August 15, 2009, 05:06:37 AM »

Dand, read the article but only went about 5 back in the comments. Wonder if people who wrote things like this were involved with a bear charge
(StopMiningLies wrote on 08/14/2009 03:42:14 PM:
Greg: I jog by your house 3-4 times per week...and have been walking through the woods back there since long before your house or the rest were subdivided by George and Gene F.

I've NEVER had an issue, and have seen one bear back there walking alongside the road. I see your dogs out on your lawn every time I go by, and I see your boats parked in your driveway...from your guide service.

When you rinse them out, after being full of fish...where does that water and scent go?

Greg: Not everyone has this vigilante mentality.... Call your "town hall" meeting. I live a 1/4 mile from you, have lived there since 1972...and have NEVER had a bear issue...and LOVE sharing my space with them.

If I didn't want bears I'd live in California.)
would feel the same way afterwards?
Certainly sounds like Alaska is becoming infected with the same Liberalism Illinois has had for decades? Changed my mind about Alaska and my desire to live there.
Steve

Dand · « **Reply #38 on:** August 15, 2009, 09:54:49 PM »

One thing about Alaskans is that many figure they know best and are determined to press their point. There is a real mix of folks here now too. But I'm reading between the lines on some of these comments from the guy's neighbors and they may know more than we do. Just like here in Dillingham I have had very few bear problems but some folks have bear problems constantly. Might be lay of the land in some cases but in others its problems keeping their yard clear of stuff attractive to bears. I just don't know about the Soldotna guy. But the urban and suburbanized areas are increasingly crowding the bears and it does seem like the bears may be just enough used to people that they are more dangerous. At least there was no mauling. But the first time I saw one of those short Ruger Alaskans I figured if you couldn't kill the bear with it you could at least set it on fire. I've never seen one fired but I figure there must be quite a fireball off the muzzle when its touched off.

That gun worked well for him when he needed it to.

v-man · « **Reply #39 on:** August 16, 2009, 01:46:52 AM »

Always glad to see a plug for my Ruger Alaskan. On my hip everytime I'm in the woods. It's a cannon with my handloads but still doesn't touch the monster loads that Hornady puts out for it. Should stop most anything.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #40 on:** August 17, 2009, 02:22:37 PM »

Quote from: v-man on August 16, 2009, 01:46:52 AM

Always glad to see a plug for my Ruger Alaskan. On my hip everytime I'm in the woods. It's a cannon with my handloads but still doesn't touch the monster loads that Hornady puts out for it. Should stop most anything.

what caliber?

v-man · « **Reply #41 on:** August 17, 2009, 02:58:39 PM »

Sorry 45-70, It's a .454 Casull.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #42 on:** August 22, 2009, 01:28:54 AM »

dla,
You said keep it to Smiths, so I'd recommend a 4" 29 or 629. Carry it in a pancake when bowhunting, and in a Simply Rugged "Chesty Puller" when backpacking. The pancake can be detached from the Chesty Puller for on-hip use.
Since your intent is self defense and not a primary hunting gun, I'd say if you can't do it with a 29/629 you'd better stay out of the woods.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #43 on:** August 30, 2009, 09:02:11 AM »

I carry the S&W 645-9 45 Colt mountain Gun in a pancake holster. Houge grips tame the 255 bullets. Smith & wesson used to make a three inch magna-ported 44 Mag called the magnum packer. They evan put a bears head on the side pannel. That would also be a good choice.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #44 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:43:17 PM »

i hate porting

rawhidekid · « **Reply #45 on:** August 30, 2009, 06:42:48 PM »

In the case of a three inch barrel with full power 44 mag loads it works wonderfully!

v-man · « **Reply #46 on:** August 31, 2009, 04:55:50 AM »

With a 3" inch barrel the gun is already loud so some of the complaints against porting might not be as applicable. I did find that in close quarter drills the technique of keeping the gun close to your body and your offside arm across your chest may keep you from shooting yourself but you can expect a mild but disturbing blast of heat and powder residue on your forearm from barrel ports.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #47 on:** August 31, 2009, 05:52:57 AM »

I have seen pictures of burned clothing from ported barrels held to close. I would definetly go for full arm extention two hand hold. But again this particular gun is pleasent to shoot with full power loads! At least for me!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #48 on:** August 31, 2009, 05:56:38 AM »

Quote from: v-man on August 31, 2009, 04:55:50 AM

With a 3" inch barrel the gun is already loud so some of the complaints against porting might not be as applicable. I did find that in close quarter drills the technique of keeping the gun close to your body and your offside arm across your chest may keep you from shooting yourself but you can expect a mild but disturbing blast of heat and powder residue on your forearm from barrel ports.

PORTING

it is loud with eye and ear protection

you going to shoot in an emergency with out either....in your car ect.

well mabee the emergency will wait till your earplugs are in

or do you just keep the ear plugs in.......sometimes i wear my safty glasses all day

rawhidekid · « **Reply #49 on:** August 31, 2009, 06:46:37 AM »

If it saves me from being eaten by a bear, I'll worry about the noise later!

rawhidekid · « **Reply #50 on:** August 31, 2009, 06:49:03 AM »

To be honest thou; my hearing was destroyed by jets in the Air Force. Noise? What noise!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #51 on:** August 31, 2009, 06:53:43 AM »

the ports will not save you the bullets will

a 3 inch ported barrel is really a 2 inch barrel

how much power do you want to sacrifice?
a 3 inch barrel with ports is louder than a 2 inch barrel

have a ruptured ear drum on top of a bear attack

also the NON-PORTED barrel will throw ALL the blast at the bear
ruptureing he eardrums not yours

IT IS DECIDED YOU CAN'T HAVE PORTS

rawhidekid · « **Reply #52 on:** August 31, 2009, 07:20:04 AM »

Whatever you say. The gentelman asked for options, that is an option. If Smith & Wesson hadn't thought so they would not have made it, would they?

rawhidekid · « **Reply #53 on:** August 31, 2009, 07:28:23 AM »

A thought just occured to me, Silenceo used to make earplugs with baffles. They allowed you to hear normally and shut down when firing. A good idea for anytime you carry a gun with expectations of using it.

Have a nice day!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #54 on:** August 31, 2009, 07:41:27 AM »

i have some head phones like that some where....they work

i have a 500 S&W with a break i need to cut off of it

wouldn't consider shooting it with out head phones
if it kicks too much with the break gone i will down load the rounds
the 2 and 3/4 in barreled 500S&W is not ported

i may be exagerating the blast
but just recomment you shoot one before you buy
and consider it and ALL the draw backs
ports and breaks are definitly an option
i am sure a break is a real bonus on the range
the thread is about a trail cannon

guns have been around a long time without breaks

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #55 on:** August 31, 2009, 08:31:47 AM »

+1 with 45-70
The comp / porting and what have you makes sense when you are on the target range. If you were going to use this for silohuette shooting. Get the porting. If you were going to have it as a Steel challange gun. Get the porting. If you are getting a self defence gun for the city and want to have a Flash Bang and gun all in one get the comp/ porting. The flash bang will effect both of you at night.
The same goes with a bear in dark woods or at dawn or dusk. FLASH BANG! Everything will go white as your pupils will be full open due to the adrenoline, will crank closed and take a couple seconds to readjust to see again.
If you do go with the comp. Remember to practice to shoot the gun at the range and move. three of four feet either side. and buy your self some recovery time.

S.B. · « **Reply #56 on:** August 31, 2009, 08:34:25 AM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on August 31, 2009, 07:41:27 AM

i have some head phones like that some where....they work

i have a 500 S&W with a break i need to cut off of it

wouldn't consider shooting it with out head phones
if it kicks too much with the break gone i will down load the rounds
the 2 and 3/4 in barreled 500S&W is not ported

i may be exagerating the blast
but just recomment you shoot one before you buy
and consider it and ALL the draw backs
ports and breaks are definitly an option
i am sure a break is a real bonus on the range
the thread is about a trail cannon

guns have been around a long time without breaks

Be careful shortening the barrel on 500s, they are shrouded(rwo piece) with tension on both ends like a Dan Wesson revolver.
Steve

rawhidekid · « **Reply #57 on:** August 31, 2009, 09:46:26 AM »

The porting is to make an otherwise unshootable gun shootable. The amount of flash is diectly tied to how slow the powser burns. A fast burning powder may in fact not have a flash at all. I spent three years working at an indoor range with poor lighting. The three inch S&W 44 I mentioned with fast burning powder did not flash! I once had a 10 inch 30-30 TC that kicked less than a 357 Mag because it was Magna-ported. Excelent hunting gun for whitetail dear. Don't let the Rawhidekid throw you off, that was my Cowboy Shooting Handle 15 years ago. I'm 59 years young and been shooting handguns since I was ten!

S.B. · « **Reply #58 on:** August 31, 2009, 11:23:10 AM »

I've never seen an unshootable gun only untrained operators? How many do you think they'd sell if they made them unshootable?
Steve

rawhidekid · « **Reply #59 on:** August 31, 2009, 03:00:38 PM »

Ever shot a three inch 45-70 deringer? I have, believe me there are some things made that will definatly hurt you! The average shooter requires a muzzle brake to use several of the larger calibers as hunting handguns. Why do you think Magna-port has been around so long? JDJ puts brakes on their big guns because they are needed to have control! Think about what you say.