Author Topic: 45 special (Read 1605 times)

mattmillerrx · « **on:** July 29, 2009, 01:02:46 PM »

I read about this in an add in one of the gun magazines. Did a little reading online and tried to find some info on here about it. My question is simple: Have you tried it? I am thinking of giving it a go. I am jumping the gun a little as I just got a vaquero in 45 long colt and thought a 45 special might be a fun round to play with but I have not even got to go shoot it yet.

The second reason I am wanting to try it is ammo is still hard to find, 45 long colt brass is hard to find but this stuff I can get.

Autorim · « **Reply #1 on:** July 29, 2009, 03:44:35 PM »

What is a .45 Special?

powderman · « **Reply #2 on:** July 29, 2009, 04:12:12 PM »

Never heard of a 45 special. I'd imagine you are referring to a 45 auto rimmed ctg. POWDERMAN.

fowler · « **Reply #3 on:** July 29, 2009, 04:56:20 PM »

45 S&W or Schofield would be a lot easier and cheaper to get brass and loads for, also they shoot in 45 colt guns just fine....

yooper77 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 29, 2009, 05:31:02 PM »

Try the Cowboy 45 Special brass.

http://www.cowboy45special.com/

yooper77

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2009, 01:20:45 AM »

never heard of 45 special brass outside of cowboy action shooting so id have to ask if your sure your talking 45 specail and not 45acp. If its acp it wont work. Like was said the most logical thing if you want to try it is to find some scofield brass.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2009, 01:30:28 AM »

I'm thinking there is nothing to gain with this out of a revolver. It appears a way to pack more ammo in a lever gun. Looks like you need a different carrier for a 73.

Autorim · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2009, 02:52:55 AM »

I did a little searching and it appears that the .45 Cowboy Special is nothing but a reduced length .45 Colt cartridge case. It should work just fine. No different than a .38 Special in a .357 or .44 Special in a .44 mag.

It could serve a useful purpose by allowing more capacity in a lever gun or with reduced powder charges in the .45 Colt. But, with Trail Boss powder, I see little use for it in a revolver and it will build up lead and carbon deposits in front of the case just like the shorter cartridges do in the .357 and .44 mag.

I would stick with .45 Colt cases.

mattmillerrx · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:39:08 AM »

"in a revolver and it will build up lead and carbon deposits in front of the case just like the shorter cartridges do in the .357 and .44 mag."

Thats a good point Autorim. . I don't really have a use for it either but thought it looked like fun. I will have to wait on 45 long colt brass.

"id have to ask if your sure your talking 45 specail and not 45acp"

See the link Yooper77 provided

Quote from: fowler on July 29, 2009, 04:56:20 PM

45 S&W or Schofield would be a lot easier and cheaper to get brass and loads for, also they shoot in 45 colt guns just fine....

I did not know that will have to look to see if that brass is available as well.

thanks
MGM

mattmillerrx · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2009, 10:48:36 AM »

I have just read were several complained that the 45 scholfield would not work in Rugers and my new gun is the old vaquero. This was due to that slightly larger rim. I will probably not do anything for awhile till I have time to do some loading but if by then 45 long colt is not around in brass or ammo I will give the special a try. Still my try it out for fun anyway.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2009, 11:42:11 AM »

I regularly shoot 45 S&W out of my 45 colt. i have a copy of a S&W No. 3 that has been chambered in 45 Colt.
the Schofield ejects better than the Colt brass when I want to go fast and use speed loaders for other than cowboy stuff.
and it is just like shooting 38 specials in my 357 mags. there is a little build up but nothing that would stop a 45 Colt round from being fed.
Also where I was buying ammo, back when you could get ammo and primers, the 45 schofields were cheaper than the colt counter parts. Smaller projectile(200 grains) and powder load.

Autorim · « **Reply #11 on:** July 30, 2009, 03:42:39 PM »

Interestingly enough, my .45 Colts will shoot 270 grain bullets with a healthy charge of IMR 4227 and 200 grain bullets with 5.0 grains of Trail Boss to nearly the same POI. Close enough for general practice anyway.

Greeenriver · « **Reply #12 on:** August 03, 2009, 05:03:39 PM »

Been using the Cowboy45Specials for a couple years now in my 45's for SASS, and I personaly think it's abetter round than the Schofield for a couple reasons. Internay capasity and volume is the same as for a 45ACP, uses the same loading data as for a 45acp, and will work in any revolver chambered for the 45 colt with no modifications or problems at all. About the same thing as using a 38 special in a 357 mag, 44 spc/44mag, ect, ect.

I've shot up to a hundred of them in a day in one revolver and still been able to push in a cylinder full of 45 colts, but they were sticky, a little.

Oh, buy the way, I load mine with APP BP sub powder and they save me a bunch of money every year on powder, why I bought them in the first place.

Load them using a 45 colt shell holder and 45 acp dies, turn the bullet seating /crimp die in to get a good heavy crimp, and they are great to shoot and use.

One advantage is they are available now. Other advantage is all the available loading data for the 45 acp transfers directly to them. Kind of about any load you want to use is availalble to a reloader.

Greeenriver

Greeenriver · « **Reply #13 on:** August 03, 2009, 05:11:13 PM »

Couple of links for information, I'm not associated to the business other than a coustomer.

http://www.cowboy45special.com/

spur45@macomb.com Or Call 309-833-3889

First place has all the info on the C45S, second is gunsmith that converts Marlin rifles to handle the C45S as part of a full action job with short stroke and incredable action feel.

I like them in a revolver, don't use them in a rifle as I have tons of 45 colt brass and don't want to loose the C45S brass in Cowboy Shooting, ya never get all your brass back, LOL. Anything other than CAS that I use a 45 colt rifle for, I use a bit more load for.

Just for information. Hope it helps some.

Greeenriver

mattmillerrx · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2009, 12:54:08 AM »

Thanks guys, glad to find someone useing them. I thought of all the people useing 45acp cylinders and thought this would be a cheaper option.

MGM

greener · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2009, 12:20:07 PM »

Sounds like an interesting round. Do you need .45 special dies for reloading or do you just adjust the ACP dies for the shorter case? If you reload, I don't see much savings with .45 special. I also looked at some of the ads on the link. I think I disagree with loosing accuracy with low velocity .45 colt loads. I've loaded some pretty slow stuff and haven't seen much, if any, fall off. One of the nice things I've seen with the .45 BH convertible is you can pretty much run up and down the scale without a great deal of affect on accuracy out to about 25 yards.

wganz · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2009, 01:20:54 PM »

Quote from: mattmillerrx on July 30, 2009, 10:48:36 AM

I have just read were several complained that the 45 scholfield would not work in Rugers and my new gun is the old vaquero. This was due to that slightly larger rim.

Back when I was using .45LC in SASS, I used .45 Schofields in my Ruger Blackhawk .45LC wo/a problem. At the next match, try to borrow some rounds and try them out. May work. Worth a shot.<pardon the pun

>

DanChamberlain · « **Reply #17 on:** August 05, 2009, 10:38:40 AM »

Fella I know on another forum invented it...or rather re-invented it depending on how you look at it. He had two Marlins converted for it. There is also an elevator for "73" Winchesters that can be installed on your rifle. A claim that is also made, is that the brass can be loaded in .45acp cylinders and will function in those as well, to include the 1917 S&W revolvers.

Dan

Dale53 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 05, 2009, 06:39:12 PM »

The .45 Cowboy Special works just fine in .45 Colt revolvers. However, do NOT try to use .45 Cowboy Specials in a .45 ACP/Auto Rim - the headspace is ALL wrong. While they may fire they can be hard on equipment due to greatly increased headspace.

The big advantage of the .45 Cowboy Special in the .45 Colt is with black powder. The Special case holds about 15 grs of Black Powder compared to the 36.0 grs or so in the .45 Colt case. The recoil is greatly reduced and that makes it very desirable for Cowboy use.

Dale53

S.S. · « **Reply #19 on:** August 06, 2009, 02:57:31 PM »

They would be fun in conversion BP revolvers. not very stout, but fun.

Pinkerton · « **Reply #20 on:** August 07, 2009, 10:50:20 AM »

I use them in a 45acp Taurus Tracker, the Tracker uses "stellar clips" that are flimsy and tend to bend causing the case head to push back and bind the cylinder. 45 autorim proved to not function because the rim is to thick, but a trimmed 45 long colt rim is perfect. I bought some of these after asking about rechambering to 45 s&w or triming 45 Colts then someone here on GB's turned me on to these. They work great!

Blackhawk44 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 07, 2009, 12:38:02 PM »

Matt, why not just have Ruger fit an ACP cylinder to your Vaquero? The ACP cylinders that I have used have always worked well. Brass is far cheaper also. I even have a Christy cylinder in my Colt.

Greeenriver · « **Reply #22 on:** August 07, 2009, 03:32:27 PM »

The C45S case can be loaded using a 45colt shell holder, and standard 45acp dies. Or size/deprime using standard 45 colt die, and 45 acp case mouth belling and seating crimp dies.

The case is the same length overall as a standard 45acp case, and the loading data is the same for both.

The C45S can be shot safely in any 45acp cylinder that headspaces on the case mouth when loaded in 45 acp dies, as the case mouth is still the same distance from the base of the case to the mouth.

If you have a 45acp cylinder turned down to allow the usage of the 45 AR cases, you can still shoot the C45S cases in that cylinder. They will still headspace on the case mouth.

For Cowboy shooting, I simply turn teh seat/crimp die further in till it provides a good roll crimp insted of just a taper crimp, as I use a BP sub and want a tight crimp.

Truthfuly, the only advantage the C45S provides for an everyday plinker and smokless shooter is the reduced case volume for more consistent loading density.

Greeenriver

Greeenriver · « **Reply #23 on:** August 07, 2009, 03:59:29 PM »

Quote from: Dale53 on August 05, 2009, 06:39:12 PM

The .45 Cowboy Special works just fine in .45 Colt revolvers. However, do NOT try to use .45 Cowboy Specials in a .45 ACP/Auto Rim - the headspace is ALL wrong. While they may fire they can be hard on equipment due to greatly increased headspace.

The big advantage of the .45 Cowboy Special in the .45 Colt is with black powder. The Special case holds about 15 grs of Black Powder compared to the 36.0 grs or so in the .45 Colt case. The recoil is greatly reduced and that makes it very desirable for Cowboy use.

Dale53

Just for clarification, I load i.6cc's APP in my C45S cases under a 200 grn RNFP. This compresses the load maybe 1/8th of an inch and makes a very plesent, smokey load that will take down any KD target used in CAS.

1.6cc's figgers out to just about 26.5 grns of FFFG BP. A 15 grn load of FFG BP is what I used in my 32 H&R Mags before I sold them. The C45S can be used in any 45 acp cylinder that HEADSPACES ON THE CASE MOUTH, the same as a 45 acp case does.

Greeenriver

Dale53 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 25, 2009, 07:37:50 PM »

Greenriver;
You are correct. The capacity difference between the .45 Cowboy Special and the .45 Colt are not quite as much as I stated.

However, I disagree with you about the advisability of using the .45 Cowboy special in an Auto Rim (or ACP) revolver. The distance between the case head and the recoil shield will be excessive and can lead to misfires and will be hard on the equipment (it will give the case a running start to slam against the recoil shield). That is NOT good practice.

I used the .45 Cowboy Specials in my Taurus .45 ACP Tracker safely because the Tracker does NOT have enough room for the .45 Auto Rim (the Cowboy Special was perfect for the Taurus). I don't know what Taurus was thinking but the Tracker has a very short cylinder and there apparently was not enough room to chamber for the Auto Rim.

Dale53