Author Topic: Beautifull Bronze  (Read 942 times)

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Offline carronader

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Beautifull Bronze
« on: July 30, 2009, 06:48:09 AM »
what do you think of these Dan?
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Offline dan610324

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Re: Beautifull Bronze
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2009, 06:57:05 AM »
the first one ( 3 top pictures) is very beautiful
is it yours ??
if so could you make a silicone mold for one of the dolphines from it ??
Dan Pettersson
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: Beautifull Bronze
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 08:57:27 AM »
are those euopean guns ???

they kinda look like those eastern lantacks(sp) malasia ,far east ...

"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Beautifull Bronze
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 09:01:10 AM »
They are Lantakas.  A gun expert I know in Portugal went to Brunei to help identify the many Lantakas belonging to the Sultan of Brunei.  He said most of them were "money cannons" used as currency and weren't really made to shoot.  He said the Sultan wasn't happy with his conclusion-he would have preferred they had all been real weapons.

Offline thelionspaw

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Re: Beautifull Bronze
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 10:16:26 AM »
"money cannons".  Is that why they are given as a dowry or at a marriage or something?  I think that is what I once read?  Cannons that resemble beasts?
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Offline dan610324

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Re: Beautifull Bronze
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2009, 10:33:07 AM »
the amsterdam voc company produced them in boatloads to use as currency when dealing with locals
Dan Pettersson
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interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Victor3

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Re: Beautifull Bronze
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2009, 12:16:58 AM »
They are Lantakas.  A gun expert I know in Portugal went to Brunei to help identify the many Lantakas belonging to the Sultan of Brunei.  He said most of them were "money cannons" used as currency and weren't really made to shoot.  He said the Sultan wasn't happy with his conclusion-he would have preferred they had all been real weapons.

 cannonmn,

 Any idea how they used them for money? Was it the weight of the bronze that determined value, or did they set denominations for size/style of cannons regardless of the material's worth (like paper money)?
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline cannonmn

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Re: Beautifull Bronze
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2009, 02:28:57 AM »
Good question, I've never seen the details explained, we'll have to wait and see if anyone knows.  There's a good article in "Guns and Ammo" magazine ca. 1972, on the Lantaka and Lela (name for them in other islands.)  I have a fading copy filed somewhere but someone can probably dig one up before I find mine.  The author was P. Badillo, a Filipino antiques dealer who also had shops in Hawaii.  I was in his shop in Manila once and there was the Lantaka to beat all Lantakas there-wouldn't you know I didn't have my camera with me then.  The thing was about 7 or 8 feet long and the casting details were as fine as any European bronze cannon I've ever seen-surface smooth as glass, with an even, very dark patina.  The decoration, wrapped all around the cannon, was grapes on grape vines, and some other floral stuff.  I wish I had had $15K at the time (1970's) because I probably would have bought it.  I have never seen one that good since then.  I know Ferdinand Marcos had a big Lantaka collection, maybe he got it eventually?

Offline Max Caliber

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Re: Beautifull Bronze
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2009, 05:19:02 AM »
Here's a picture of three nice looking ones. The one on the left has what looks like a metal strip nicely lashed to the bottom of it, very interesting. Not sure of the purpose unless the barrel is cracked or broken. Dan, if you can enlarge the picture you will see that the center one has a very nice pair of sea horse dolphins.

Max

Max

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Beautifull Bronze
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2009, 05:56:30 AM »
Quote
The one on the left has what looks like a metal strip nicely lashed to the bottom of it, very interesting.

I see that now and then, it is some kind of tropical wood, lashed on with bamboo or some such.  I have a small one with that rig.  What I thought since the wood appears to be broken off at the rear is that was some kind of tiller, but who know really?  Tillers would be much simpler with just a piece of proper size wood dowel or branch stuck into the hollow cascabel.  I'll see if I can find a photo of mine, I think maybe it is the one with the blunderbuss muzzle.

I only have one that I know was definitely used as a weapon, it has the flared muzzle reduced in diameter, I guess for better sighting, and a US Army capture inscription on it.

Offline carronader

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Re: Beautifull Bronze
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2009, 06:42:33 AM »
beautiful Dolphins Max,very good post.
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Offline dan610324

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Re: Beautifull Bronze
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2009, 07:40:12 AM »
many things I have seen been used as dolphins , but this is the first time Ive seen a sea horse
thanks Max
Dan Pettersson
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interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Beautifull Bronze
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2009, 11:02:11 AM »
Philippine Lantaka Cannon measures 58" in length.

Sometimes Lantakas were presented as gifts.  The translation of this one is supposed to be:

  Inscribed "This is an Heirloom from Datu Dakula to my son Datu Ahmad, Descendant of Shaki Rullah."

This isn't mine but found it on the web.  It isn't easy to find someone to translate these; I haven't found anyone who was really sure what language the inscriptions are written in.