Author Topic: OK gear heads here are some questions? (Read 2803 times)

DalesCarpentry · « **on:** July 30, 2009, 06:48:15 PM »

I think I need a gear heads here!!!!!!!!!!

You guys probably already know I bought a Chevy 1998 K1500 4x4 with the 4.3 Vertec. I am getting close to paying it off from a buy here pay here place. This truck just does not have the power I need to haul my tools and material around. It is always loaded and squats pretty good at times.

I see on Jc whitney I can buy some helper springs that will go under my current springs to take care of the squating problem. My question to the gear heads out there is this. My current 4.3 Vortec is a 5.7 ( 350 CI. ) with 2 cylinders cut off it. Does my truck use the same transmission as the 5.7 Vortec? I would like to swap engines out if so and install a new 5.7 Vortec. Here is a link to what I am thinking.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Reman-96-02-GM-5-7-Chevy-350-Vortec-4-Bolt-LB-Engine_W0QQitemZ370237552723QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5633e0b853&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

This truck is in such great shape with no rust it may be worth it to me to do such a thing. Besides I will own it very shortly. No more payments.

I don't know much about this kind of thing. Could you tell me if there is a long block and short block of this 5.7 and what are the differences? Witch one do I need? One last thing. I think tey also come in 2 bolt main and 4 bolt main. What doese that mean? Thanks for all your help. Dale

mirage1988 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2009, 08:49:55 AM »

Dale, the engine swap could be done, but you will have more money in it than it would be worth. The difference is a short block doesn't come with the cylinder heads. You would also have to buy the intake manifold and carb (or fuel injection system) oil pan, fan shroud, motor mounts, computer, the list is pretty long.
I would recommend having the axles regeared to maybe 4.11s if you haul heavy a lot. Your gas mileage would drop a little, but it would with the bigger motor too. As far as the overload springs go, have you looked at air shocks at all? That might be an option if you are looking for a lot of boost.

Jay, Tx · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2009, 12:33:52 PM »

I've never seen a 4.3 in a 4x4 p/u before. But I guess stranger things have happened. I had a '98 2wd for years that had the 4.3 in it. I had that dude loaded down with ladder rack (1-32' extension ladder, 1-6' step, 1-8' step), deep crossover box packed full of tools, and a bed full of material quite often. I never noticed much of a need for more power. But then again, I didn't have all of the parasitic drag that the transfer case and front axles are giving you either. Which brings a question to mind.

How tall are the tires you have on it? Large tires will alter the final drive ratio. If you've got big honkin' mud tires on it, that might be your problem. The motor just doesn't make the needed low-end torque for the gear ratio you have.

Like Mirage suggested, you could lower the gear ratio in the front & rear end, and it would help (especially if you have large tires). Mileage will decrease some. And I also agree on the air shocks or an air bag system to get that ride height where you want it. I use the air shocks on my old '71 chevy. They work great to get my ride height back up when towing or hauling. The also help to take that squirming feel out of the rear of the truck when hauling or towing.

Another option to get more hauling power would be to do some motor mods. There are all kinds of parts you can get to accomplish this. Most by themselves will not make a huge difference. But several of them coupled together can have a noticeable impact. You can get computer chips, headers, oversized throttle bodies, do a cam swap, under-drive pulleys, and much more.

Or you could yank out the motor you have, have it rebuilt, and mod that baby out while doing so. Higher compression pistons, larger cam, larger throttle body, headers, free flowing exhaust system, and have the computer re-mapped to account for these changes. All these combine to make a much better breathing engine. You'd likely come out close money-wise doing a v-8 swap. It'd also probably give you more HP than the stock v-8 would.

Another option, if you just really want to do the swap is to find a wrecking yard and snatch up a v-8 that will swap right into your truck, and get all of the accessories with it. But then you're getting another engine that likely has high mileage given the year model and the changes made since your truck, and the donor, were built. This is a very do-able swap. The transmission should bolt right up and work just fine. You'll just need to get the computer, fuel injection system, and all the goodies with the v-8 engine.

Jay

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2009, 01:32:01 PM »

Thanks for the replies guys. The tires that are on the truck are 15" rims and tires. The prior owner must of taken off the stock 16" rims. Who on earth would do that and why? That is another thing I need to address. I plan on putting 16" rims again. You have a point about doing mods to the current engine. I read somewhere if I put a different throdle body spacer on it I will gain some horse power. Then I could upgrade the factory air cleaner. I hear that helps with horse power also. Do you know any other things I could do to squeeze more horse power out of this engine. That would be the cheapest route. Thanks Dale

mirage1988 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2009, 02:09:19 PM »

Put dual exhaust on it with no mufflers, It won't make any more power, but it will sure sound like it!

The cheapest way to add power is to make the engine breathe better- aftermarket air box/filter, free-flowing exhaust.

Next step is a chip (hypertech), then a camshaft change.

As I said earlier, I would talk to a four wheel drive shop in the area about a gear swap, along with an exhaust system, and an airbox it would be the cheapest way to get what you are looking for.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2009, 03:03:55 PM »

A supercharger is the easiest REAL power adder. The trick airfilter/boxes, won't really show hp gains until you are at higher rpm levels where there is high demand for air. Chips tend to change shift points and do add a more aggresive programming to the injecter mapping. Chips can give a good seat of the pants feel.

The blower is the one real live HP booster for a small engine. It can be tailored to your needs through gearing to deliver a reasonable amount of power without breaking the driveline. If the motor is sound you'll likely get what you want cheaper than a swap.

Swaps can be done, but the devil is in the details. Those who understand what they are doing make it appear easy. I would make sure that whoever you hire can give you a few references. I'm betting an entire donar vehicle will be required. Radiator and shroud, fuel system, engine mgt wires and controls, air intake, possibly trans and transfercase as well(may not hold up to v8 power), the labor costs can kill ya.

Jay, Tx · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2009, 03:14:15 PM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on July 31, 2009, 01:32:01 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. The tires that are on the truck are 15" rims and tires. The prior owner must of taken off the stock 16" rims. Who on earth would do that and why? That is another thing I need to address. I plan on putting 16" rims again. You have a point about doing mods to the current engine. I read somewhere if I put a different throdle body spacer on it I will gain some horse power. Then I could upgrade the factory air cleaner. I hear that helps with horse power also. Do you know any other things I could do to squeeze more horse power out of this engine. That would be the cheapest route. Thanks Dale

Rim size really doesn't matter. It's the diameter, or roll out, of the tire than alters the final drive ratio.

The P.O. probably swapped to 15" wheels to lower the cost of tires. If he swapped at all. My '98 had 15' wheels on it.

Jay

mirage1988 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2009, 03:25:07 PM »

Quote from: Empty Quiver on July 31, 2009, 03:03:55 PM

A supercharger is the easiest REAL power adder. The trick airfilter/boxes, won't really show hp gains until you are at higher rpm levels where there is high demand for air. Chips tend to change shift points and do add a more aggresive programming to the injecter mapping. Chips can give a good seat of the pants feel.

The blower is the one real live HP booster for a small engine. It can be tailored to your needs through gearing to deliver a reasonable amount of power without breaking the driveline. If the motor is sound you'll likely get what you want cheaper than a swap.

Swaps can be done, but the devil is in the details. Those who understand what they are doing make it appear easy. I would make sure that whoever you hire can give you a few references. I'm betting an entire donar vehicle will be required. Radiator and shroud, fuel system, engine mgt wires and controls, air intake, possibly trans and transfercase as well(may not hold up to v8 power), the labor costs can kill ya.

I didn't suggest adding a supercharger because he is talking about a truck with some miles on it. Nitrous actually is cheaper and easier than a blower.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2009, 03:38:14 PM »

Quote from: Jay, Tx on July 31, 2009, 03:14:15 PM

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on July 31, 2009, 01:32:01 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. The tires that are on the truck are 15" rims and tires. The prior owner must of taken off the stock 16" rims. Who on earth would do that and why? That is another thing I need to address. I plan on putting 16" rims again. You have a point about doing mods to the current engine. I read somewhere if I put a different throdle body spacer on it I will gain some horse power. Then I could upgrade the factory air cleaner. I hear that helps with horse power also. Do you know any other things I could do to squeeze more horse power out of this engine. That would be the cheapest route. Thanks Dale

Rim size really doesn't matter. It's the diameter, or roll out, of the tire than alters the final drive ratio.

The P.O. probably swapped to 15" wheels to lower the cost of tires. If he swapped at all. My '98 had 15' wheels on it.

Jay

The door panel says it should have 16" rims and tires. The current engine now has 132,000 miles on it. It does seem to be sound. It uses no oil between oil changes and does not leak or burn any. It sounds good too. I think this truck has been well taken care of through out it's life. The super charger has my wheels turning.

I just wonder what the cost of something like that would be? I like the condition of this truck and would not even think of these things if I did not like it. They have my same truck in a 2500 HD that is a year newer on the lot. I have been kicking around the idea of just trading it in for it. The thing is I just about own it now and there would be no more payments. I payed $4,000.00 for the truck and the blue book is close to about $5,500.00 or so. I don't know I like the truck but am used to much more power and load carrying. Dale

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2009, 03:45:48 PM »

Here is one more of the back of it. Dale

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2009, 03:47:58 PM »

Nitrous may have use on the track for instant power. It wouldn't make much sense in a work truck though, the cost per shot would break the bank not to mention how unhandy it would be to fill the tank.

A blower may indeed waste the engine if abused. Thoughtful setup and use could mitigate some of the downside.

The best solution is to come to grip with the lower power. Has the lack of power honestly stopped you from doing a job? If that truck has stopped for a lack of power, I'd seriously consider a 3/4 ton model. I suspect it's a want more, to avoid having to work that 4.3 as hard to keep up with unburdoned traffic. Heck let em pass, I drive a semi, you get used to it.

mirage1988 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2009, 03:52:16 PM »

Quote from: Empty Quiver on July 31, 2009, 03:47:58 PM

The best solution is to come to grip with the lower power. Has the lack of power honestly stopped you from doing a job? If that truck has stopped for a lack of power, I'd seriously consider a 3/4 ton model. I suspect it's a want more, to avoid having to work that 4.3 as hard to keep up with unburdoned traffic. Heck let em pass, I drive a semi, you get used to it.

My thoughts also, maybe just leave 15 minutes earlier in the morning?

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2009, 03:57:09 PM »

Quote from: Empty Quiver on July 31, 2009, 03:47:58 PM

Nitrous may have use on the track for instant power. It wouldn't make much sense in a work truck though, the cost per shot would break the bank not to mention how unhandy it would be to fill the tank.

A blower may indeed waste the engine if abused. Thoughtful setup and use could mitigate some of the downside.

The best solution is to come to grip with the lower power. Has the lack of power honestly stopped you from doing a job? If that truck has stopped for a lack of power, I'd seriously consider a 3/4 ton model. I suspect it's a want more, to avoid having to work that 4.3 as hard to keep up with unburdoned traffic. Heck let em pass, I drive a semi, you get used to it.

I do understand what you are saying. No it has never stopped and kept me from doing a job. I don't like loosing speed going up hills though. I am just used to stepping on the gas and being able to keep an even speed going up long steep hills. With this truck it feels like I am working the engine pretty hard going up hills. I just don't or am not used to working an engine that hard. I had a Ford F150 years ago that had a 6 cylender in it also. I got rid of it for the same reason now that I think about it.

Dale

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #13 on:** August 01, 2009, 08:04:22 AM »

I sure won't argue with wanting more power. My opinion is that starting a search for a replacement truck is the best idea. Things are easier to find when you don't NEED them, taking your time the deal will one day show up.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #14 on:** August 01, 2009, 09:08:23 AM »

The easiest and cheapest option would be to simply trade this truck in on a similar truck with more motor.

The kind of "upgrades" you propose have a nasty habit of costing much more than you think. BTDT take your largest cost estimate and multiply x3

Regearing is a viable option. But again on a IFS 4x4 it turns into a major expense and job

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #15 on:** August 02, 2009, 12:37:22 PM »

Ok. One more question. Would this work with my current transmission? I don't have the cash now but if I keep looking I might just find one when I do. I would think (but really don't know) I could do this swap without changing anything. Dale
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/pts/1302306461.html

torpedoman · « **Reply #16 on:** August 02, 2009, 03:12:24 PM »

super charger or turbo will beat the bottom end and the wrist pins out of it, the oil galleys aren't large enough to flow the oil needed to cushion the parts.more air means higher compression with the same valve timing,above 10 to 1 your wrist pins need staked to keep them in place. increasing compression ratio means high octane fuel will be required and I'm not real sure that today's premium gas will do the job.I had to add a extra base gasket under the jugs on my old Harley to get it to burn the cheap gas they peddle today. A salvage yard for the whole 350 engine and computer and associated wiring would be the cheapest way to go and have reliability (it is your WORK truck)reliability is paramount. You should be able to buy a good work truck for 4500 the government is.Why do you need 4wd on your truck? loosing that weight would save gas and add power.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #17 on:** August 02, 2009, 03:34:14 PM »

Quote from: torpedoman on August 02, 2009, 03:12:24 PM

super charger or turbo will beat the bottom end and the wrist pins out of it, the oil galleys aren't large enough to flow the oil needed to cushion the parts.more air means higher compression with the same valve timing,above 10 to 1 your wrist pins need staked to keep them in place. increasing compression ratio means high octane fuel will be required and I'm not real sure that today's premium gas will do the job.I had to add a extra base gasket under the jugs on my old Harley to get it to burn the cheap gas they peddle today. A salvage yard for the whole 350 engine and computer and associated wiring would be the cheapest way to go and have reliability (it is your WORK truck)reliability is paramount. You should be able to buy a good work truck for 4500 the government is.Why do you need 4wd on your truck? loosing that weight would save gas and add power.

I would not even make it to work on many days during the winter with out four wheel drive. That is one thing I will not and can not give up PERIOD. Then even in the spring and summer I go to job sites that have a lot of mud. You can forget it in a two wheel drive. To me a two wheel drive is worthless and won't even look at one. Dale

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** August 10, 2009, 12:39:19 AM »

transmition will work but thats about it. You will need the entire motor. Fuel system, computer ect. Cheapest fix for your lack of power would probably be a set of 410 gears. With your overdrive tranny gas milage shouldnt suffer much and with your lack of power you probably have your foot in it so much now that it will probably improve.

WD45 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:49:50 AM »

Sounds like what you really need is a 3/4 ton truck with more engine. You will probably spend as much money trying to make this truck into what you need than to just go get what you need and be done with it.

hillbill · « **Reply #20 on:** September 15, 2009, 02:51:30 PM »

ive been a 6 cylinder man all my life in chevy trucks, the absolute key is to just learn to relax and enjoy the ride. so what if yu git there 5 min later so what if yur going 45 at the top of a hill.the measure of a man is not the horsepower of his truck like so many people think.ive done and seen my dad haul more and pull more with a 6cylinder engine than most of these guys around here can do with a 1 ton diesel.

30-30man · « **Reply #21 on:** September 15, 2009, 03:24:17 PM »

I have a 4.3 Cheverolet marine installed in a s-10. It doesn't lack anything, it has towed way more than it should . A gear change in today's vehicles is not like NASCAR. It is a $1500 axle job and with 4 x4, you have $3000 worth of work. You can get a rebuilt long block much cheaper than what ebay sells. There is a rebuilder in my area than has 5.7 longblocks for $800. A supercharger and turbo are just nonsense, nobody in their right mind would install one on a 4.3. My suggestion is get a good tune-up and enjoy the ride. A v-6 is not a v-8 and there is no comparrison. A throttle body spacer and one of those fancy air cleaners do nothing but lighten your wallet. They do very little in gaining horsepower, no matter what they claim. Just look at the hotrod magazine's dyno reports, they showed nothing with the $200 air filter systems and throttle body spacers. The tire thing will not do anything either. My advice is to get a tune-up, a free flowing exhaust, and maybe a Hypertech if the money is there. The hypertech works better with the newer stuff because most trucks now have torque management and retard the timing when you get down on it. The makers claim this is to save gas, but it's really to save the drivetrain from warranty repairs before the warranty expires. A v-6 is not going to be as strong as a v-8 regardless on how much you spend. It is often cheaper to look for a bigger truck. If I was short on money, I'd keep the truck. You don't now what is going to lie ahead. This recession maybe longer than what the media will have you believe.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #22 on:** September 16, 2009, 01:20:37 AM »

theres enough trucks in that year range now in the junkyards that its no problem to pick up a used rear end allready set up with a steaper set of gears for a few hundred bucks. Lots of them with 373s you might have to do some searching to find 410s though. Most of the cheap mods are useless and the good ones are very expensive. Like i said swapping out motors is much more then buying a motor and dropping it in. You will need everything that came with the donor truck. Wiring, fuel injections computer ect. The hypertec and diablo programmers help but as to torque managment they dont take enough out to make much of a differnce. I had my computer actually reprogramed it costed me i believe about 300 bucks. It made a noticeable difference in my 5.3. Im sure it would help a 4.3 too. go here and youll get some good advice http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/general-discussion/performance/

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #23 on:** September 16, 2009, 09:54:55 AM »

Quote

theres enough trucks in that year range now in the junkyards that its no problem to pick up a used rear end allready set up with a steaper set of gears for a few hundred bucks. Lots of them with 373s you might have to do some searching to find 410s

the problem is he has a 1/2 ton 4x4 with a v6 auto.....Meaning that he already likely has as low a gear ratio as this generation truck came with probably 4.10's possibly lower.

just like with the 4cyl wrangler guys, they already have 4.10 gears fro the factory, and even then their rigs aren't nearly low enough geared for tires larger than the 28" stockers

If it were my truck running 31 to 32" tires with a v6 overdrive auto I would not consider gears higher than 4.56'es and I'd think real hard about 4.88's

Quote

A v-6 is not going to be as strong as a v-8 regardless on how much you spend.

I disagree. I'd take a v6 truck with 4.10 or 4.56 gears any day of the week over a v8 truck with 3.08's or 3.42's

You also gotta consider the generation of truck and the v8 in question. For example a 4.3 TBI chevy is every bit as powerful if not more so than a 305 of the same vintage.

In my opinion the same holds true for a Ford with a 300 vs the 302

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** September 16, 2009, 10:00:51 AM »

Dale get a good used Diesel 2500 Dodge or ford ( stay away from the 6.0 but the 7.3 is great . nothing newer than 2004 or older many great deals out there and they will go 300000 miles easy .

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #25 on:** September 17, 2009, 01:31:38 AM »

chevs base gear ratios for production are the same no matter what motor they put in. Most come with 343s anymore. I do agree with you that theres nothing wrong with a v6 in a 1/2 ton that has adequate gears. Like you said we used to be pleased with a 350 in a chev back in the 70s. we thought we had a pretty powerful truck and these new sixes will flat leave one of the old 350s in the dust for hp and torque. Only downfall to buying a new truck with a six is the 8s probably get better milage on the road as there not worked as hard and dont need as steap of a gear ratio to do the work. I have one of those 4cly jeeps with 410s. Its got 31 inch tires and believe me it needs more gear! I use it in the woods but if im going even 50 miles to town i rarely take the jeep. Youd build up your left leg muscles in short order because you about shift every couple minutes and the gas peddle could be replaced with an on off swithch as its matted about all the time.

Quote from: krochus on September 16, 2009, 09:54:55 AM

Quote
theres enough trucks in that year range now in the junkyards that its no problem to pick up a used rear end allready set up with a steaper set of gears for a few hundred bucks. Lots of them with 373s you might have to do some searching to find 410s

the problem is he has a 1/2 ton 4x4 with a v6 auto.....Meaning that he already likely has as low a gear ratio as this generation truck came with probably 4.10's possibly lower.

just like with the 4cyl wrangler guys, they already have 4.10 gears fro the factory, and even then their rigs aren't nearly low enough geared for tires larger than the 28" stockers

If it were my truck running 31 to 32" tires with a v6 overdrive auto I would not consider gears higher than 4.56'es and I'd think real hard about 4.88's

Quote
A v-6 is not going to be as strong as a v-8 regardless on how much you spend.

I disagree. I'd take a v6 truck with 4.10 or 4.56 gears any day of the week over a v8 truck with 3.08's or 3.42's

You also gotta consider the generation of truck and the v8 in question. For example a 4.3 TBI chevy is every bit as powerful if not more so than a 305 of the same vintage.

In my opinion the same holds true for a Ford with a 300 vs the 302

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** September 17, 2009, 01:51:16 AM »

most of the 6 cyl. chevy trucks we have had ( 8-9 ) had 411 gears while the 8 cyl trucks (non diesel about 12 ) had 373 rears . There are some differences in the trans between the two with regard to elec. . When we had one replaced we had a truck with a bad motor and the trans could not be salvaged to go in another truck because of the differences . they were one year different , one an 8 cyl the other a 6 .

wtxbadger · « **Reply #27 on:** September 17, 2009, 02:46:12 PM »

Going to better axle ratio would seem to be the best and least expensive alternative than swapping engines or buying another truck. Your truck sounds like and looks like a good reliable vehicle. Having reliable transportation day in and day out is sure hard to beat, even if it seems underpowered.

I had a 92 Chevy 1500 with the V6 and if my daughter and son in law had not needed it would still be driving it today. It was not a speed demon by any stretch, but was and is good solid reliable transportation.

badger

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #28 on:** September 17, 2009, 03:19:27 PM »

Quote from: wtxbadger on September 17, 2009, 02:46:12 PM

Going to better axle ratio would seem to be the best and least expensive alternative than swapping engines or buying another truck. Your truck sounds like and looks like a good reliable vehicle. Having reliable transportation day in and day out is sure hard to beat, even if it seems underpowered.

I had a 92 Chevy 1500 with the V6 and if my daughter and son in law had not needed it would still be driving it today. It was not a speed demon by any stretch, but was and is good solid reliable transportation.

badger

You know what. I have been all hell bent on getting another truck or putting a bigger moter in it. My truck does have high miles on it now. I bought it back in April and it had 124,689 miles on it. As of today It has 137,189 miles on it. I only owe a few more hundred dollars on now. It will be paid off and it will be mine. Would I like a newer truck with an extended cab and bigger motor? Yes I would. I have decided today that this really is a good truck seeing as I am driving 70 miles one way to work and I just had the plugs,wires,roter,cap, and O2 sensor replaced. I feel it may be a little under powered but I am now getting about 18 MPH. I am starting to think I like a truck that is payed off and runs like a top even with the high miles. It does not even use a quart of oil between 3,000 mile oil changes. I have to say it really runs great and I am getting used to not having all the power I have had with a 6.0 liter Vortec. It is a keeper I guess. Hey it don't even have any rust and it is about payed off. Dale

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #29 on:** September 18, 2009, 10:01:16 AM »

There you go, embrace your inner tight ass. Remember if the "boss" were making payments on that truck it wouldn't even have a radio in it.