Author Topic: 1st 1911 (Read 3018 times)

JJ79 · « **on:** July 30, 2009, 06:59:37 PM »

looking to pick up my first 1911 soon...it'll be a nightstand/truck gun.

don't want to spend the $$$ for a super high-end custom gun, but don't exactly want to trust my life to a low priced econo-pistol either...

looking at some guns in the "semi-custom" range...somewhere between $1,000 to $2,000. since it will be a nightstand pistol, a light rail would be nice, but I think I could live without the rail if everything else was great...

here are a few of the pistols I've narrowed it down to:

Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special

Kimber Tactical Entry II

Springfield TRP

Sig Nitron Rail

anyone who owns or has experience with these, I'd love to hear your thoughts, likes/dislikes, etc.

I've also considered the Springfield Pro, even though it's a bit more expensive than the pistols listed. worth the extra $$$??

thanks in advance for all input....

-JJ

KAYR1 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2009, 03:17:19 AM »

Any of the ones you listed are actually on the upper crust of 1911s. After proper break-in, they should be as reliable as anything.

I have not owned (yet) a Les Baer, but his guns are among the elite

I Have a Kimber Target, and it is sweet, and eats up everything, very accurate and reliable

Springfield, again, famous for reliable, accurate guns,

I have no experience with the Sig, but they have traditionally put out extremely well-made and reliable guns in the P226 series.

KAYR1

williamlayton · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2009, 06:05:51 AM »

The LB is a good weapon and well made.
You may want too do yourself a favor and check out STI---The Trojan is a well made weapon for around a grand. Buy it thru Dawson percision. Look at their web site for a lot of options and their story.
Blessings

Mikey · « **Reply #3 on:** August 01, 2009, 12:55:16 AM »

JJ: you said - "looking to pick up my first 1911 soon...it'll be a nightstand/truck gun.

don't want to spend the $$$ for a super high-end custom gun, but don't exactly want to trust my life to a low priced econo-pistol either..."

All the pistols you listed are little more than high end and pricey customized civilian versions of the same government contract handgun formerly provided to the US Armed Forces for combat support. The government's 1911A1 is a 'lowest cost' contract piece, yet it has served flawlessly for almost one century.

Every GI who ever carried a 1911A1 has trusted his or her life to a low-priced econo pistol, so if you don't want to spend the $$$ (for something that will be confiscated and possibly destroyed after it is used in a defensive shooting) then get yourself a plain jane 1911A1 45 auto and practice with it. jmtcw.

Curt Dawson · « **Reply #4 on:** August 01, 2009, 02:27:29 PM »

I have an Rock Island Armory 1911. It is an entry level gun. Accurate and totally reliable.Put the money saved into practice ammo.
Just my 2 cents worth.

kynardsj · « **Reply #5 on:** August 01, 2009, 02:33:36 PM »

I own a Taurus PT 1911 AR. All the bells and whistles of the guns you mentioned but half the price. Extremely dependable and accurate.

Lawndart · « **Reply #6 on:** August 01, 2009, 02:52:19 PM »

Does anybody know what would be a good 1911 between a Rock Island and the high end stuff? I would also like a 1911....maybe somewhere in the 600-700 dollar range....

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #7 on:** August 01, 2009, 03:14:37 PM »

Taurus is right in your price range and has what most people want to put on the entry level 1911's. I held off buying one and wish I hadn't, they are about $200.00 more now than when I first saw them. I talked to some pretty savvy gun guys here that were sure they were gonna be a piece of crap, but everyone seems to have changed their minds now. Where I bought my 38 Super is one place that the lead man said he didn't think they would last, but now says he has had no complaints on the 1911 unlike some of the other models of Taurus. He is also thinking of getting a 38 Super now, and sells Springfield, Kimber, ect. but is talking Taurus. DP

dmachine · « **Reply #8 on:** August 02, 2009, 02:30:46 AM »

Take a good look at the H&K USP, full size or compact. There is nothing better to rely on to save your life, and that includes a $3000 custom 1911.

Lawndart · « **Reply #9 on:** August 02, 2009, 04:08:21 AM »

Quote from: dmachine on August 02, 2009, 02:30:46 AM

Take a good look at the H&K USP, full size or compact. There is nothing better to rely on to save your life, and that includes a $3000 custom 1911.

USP's are great guns. I have a full size 40, and it is probably the most accurate handgun I've ever owned.

Savage · « **Reply #10 on:** August 02, 2009, 09:05:24 AM »

dmachine,
When you get the 1911 itch, an H&K won't scratch it.
Savage

williamlayton · « **Reply #11 on:** August 02, 2009, 12:36:42 PM »

STI makes great, reliable weapons.
Blessings

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 03, 2009, 07:22:23 PM »

I would recommend a Rock Island Armory GI. 45 or if you like a Tactical model. I just recently purchased two 1911A1 pstols and love them. I have fired just over 1,000 rounds through each of them with no problems after getting the bullet seating depth right for the various loads I shoot.

230 Grain Round Nose Hard Ball feeds and functions with not on failure and that is to be expected in any 1911 model. I also, shoot 200 Grain SWC FMJ and lead with not a single failure. The same applies for 185 SWC Javketed and lead. What more can you ask of a defensive weapon.

I do not understand the terms such as "ENTRY LEVEL" unless you are talking about a Beauty Contest or Super Accurate Target Shooting. However, if you want a reliable Combat Weapon that will do what it was designed to do. You can not go wrong with the Rock Island Armory 1911A1.

I also own a Colt Series 70 that was totaly done right at the Trinidad Gunsmith School in Trinidad Colorado, yes sir it is a beauty and it also performs flawlessly with any ammo. Yet I will be packing my Rock and I will have no doubt that if called upon it will do its part.

Hey the price is right and the gun is really a reliable wepaon.

JJ79 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:50:29 AM »

thanks to everyone for the input...

one more contestant has entered the running; Colt Special Combat Government (carry...the one w/fixed sights).

anybody have one? if so, your thoughts/experiences? how would it compare to the other pistols listed?

-JJ

williamlayton · « **Reply #14 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:57:50 AM »

Colt is always a good choice.
All others are a copy.
The thing is, with a 1911, is that it is a well known weapon. there are many Smiths that do a lot of things with it. If it does not suit your disposition you can have it customized, worked on.
I am a BIG fan of 1911's and a BIG fan of customizing. While it will work, out of the box, I like some things done too them.
The frames and slides are good, not the cast found in lesser & cheaper ones. STI's least costly is the same cast frame found on the Rock. Nothing wrong with cast--there are some VERY good cast frames. But, you can do some things with the Colt and the frame/slide is GOOD.
It may be just grips--so many choices--or beavertail, or grip safety. It may be springs or ejectors, or, or, or it may be tattoo's.
Buy it for life and have fun with it. Make it yours.
Blessings

JeffG · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2009, 05:07:52 AM »

Quote

Any of the ones you listed are actually on the upper crust of 1911s. After proper break-in, they should be as reliable as anything.

+1

JJ79 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2009, 07:48:26 PM »

here's an update, for those who are interested...

finally got to go handle some of these pistols today (with the exception of the Les Baer). here are my impressions after finally getting to paw around on them:

the Colt Special Combat Government definitely felt the best in my hand...very well balanced; points great. good sights also. the blued finish doesn't seem as durable as some of the other pistols. fit & finish were good, but not great. I could get some slight side-to-side movement out of the slide, but no major gaps, etc. trigger pull wasn't particularly great...(only the Sig trigger was worse.) this pistol probably would have won, except I was not impressed when I opened the slide...barrel throat was cut strange...looked like it was just waiting to deny entry to the next round that tried to enter it.

the Sig Blackwater 1911 was definitely at the bottom of the heap. heavy, solid feeling gun, but lots of play/movement in the slide-to-frame fit. trigger was the worst of the entire group...too heavy IMO. the safety felt like total junk; stiff to flick to "off", but slid very easily into the "safe" position?? uh, shouldn't that be reversed on a fighting gun??? fit/finish was worst of the group as well...I could literally see daylight between the magwell and the bottom of the grips/frame..big thumbs down $:-\$ magazines tended to "catch" going in as well...not cool.

the Springfield TRP was very nice; great fit/finish...armory coat finish looked awesome. very balanced and tight; no movement whatsoever. did not like the sights...too small. and hated...repeat: hated, the checkering...WAY too rough even just holding the pistol; can't imagine what shooting it w/out gloves would feel like. wasn't crazy about the grips either...everything on this gun seemed prickly. great pistol for the $$ though, or so it seems. trigger pull was very crisp...nice gun.

probably gonna end up going with the Kimber Tactical Entry II. has all the features I want...feels really nice in the hand...and is put together very well as far as I can tell. and it's in the middle of my price range; not too expensive, but not cheap either. (and I'll have enough $$$ left over for a nice new Taurus 709 Slim...great little gun for pocket CCW/backup...beats the Kahrs & Kel-Tecs to pieces IMO)

I also looked over some Nighthawks as well...VERY nice guns; albeit a little overpriced I think...

but it was the Ed Brown guns that just blew my mind; AMAZING!!!! all others listed above do not even compare....workmanship is just fantastic. you have to hold/handle one to even understand how much better it is. handled a Jeff Cooper Commemorative model that was simply a work of art. I'm gonna make do with the Kimber for now...but there is definitely an Ed Brown Special Forces in my future; just gotta save up some more change...

-JJ

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** August 07, 2009, 12:12:44 AM »

if i was looking in that price range id be checking out a sti spartan.

Quote from: Lawndart on August 01, 2009, 02:52:19 PM

Does anybody know what would be a good 1911 between a Rock Island and the high end stuff? I would also like a 1911....maybe somewhere in the 600-700 dollar range....

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** August 07, 2009, 12:16:58 AM »

LB excellent gun probably the best listed but pricey
trp excellent gun. Im not a springfield fan but have to say the trps ive shot were extreamly good guns.
kimber tac ent. Is another great gun and probably the best bang for the buck in your list.
Sig I dont know much about. Ive heard there not true 1911s though so part interchangablity would keep me away from one.

Quote from: JJ79 on July 30, 2009, 06:59:37 PM

looking to pick up my first 1911 soon...it'll be a nightstand/truck gun.

don't want to spend the $$$ for a super high-end custom gun, but don't exactly want to trust my life to a low priced econo-pistol either...

looking at some guns in the "semi-custom" range...somewhere between $1,000 to $2,000. since it will be a nightstand pistol, a light rail would be nice, but I think I could live without the rail if everything else was great...

here are a few of the pistols I've narrowed it down to:

Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special

Kimber Tactical Entry II

Springfield TRP

Sig Nitron Rail

anyone who owns or has experience with these, I'd love to hear your thoughts, likes/dislikes, etc.

I've also considered the Springfield Pro, even though it's a bit more expensive than the pistols listed. worth the extra $$$??

thanks in advance for all input....

-JJ

torpedoman · « **Reply #19 on:** August 07, 2009, 02:36:36 PM »

Quote from: Curt Dawson on August 01, 2009, 02:27:29 PM

I have an Rock Island Armory 1911. It is an entry level gun. Accurate and totally reliable.Put the money saved into practice ammo.
Just my 2 cents worth.

+1 for the R.I. I was at a pistol shoot and a guy was bad mouthing my "cheap" gun and his more expensive gun jammed 3 times during the match. I asked if he carried that jam o matic as his personal protection weapon.

Lawndart · « **Reply #20 on:** August 08, 2009, 01:54:55 AM »

Quote from: torpedoman on August 07, 2009, 02:36:36 PM

Quote from: Curt Dawson on August 01, 2009, 02:27:29 PM
I have an Rock Island Armory 1911. It is an entry level gun. Accurate and totally reliable.Put the money saved into practice ammo.
Just my 2 cents worth.
+1 for the R.I. I was at a pistol shoot and a guy was bad mouthing my "cheap" gun and his more expensive gun jammed 3 times during the match. I asked if he carried that jam o matic as his personal protection weapon.

That's funny

You don't always have to spend a ton of money to get a quality product.

Savage · « **Reply #21 on:** August 08, 2009, 02:20:58 AM »

That's funny

You don't always have to spend a ton of money to get a quality product.
[/quote]

Frequently true! However, most of the time, cheap is cheap!
Savage

williamlayton · « **Reply #22 on:** August 08, 2009, 12:35:34 PM »

There are tons of people who swear by Taraus and RIA----there are also tons who swear at them. Seems there is a hit and miss in the least or lesser expensive ones.
I am not saying that a ton of money won't give you a bad one--butttt--the odds of a good LB, STI, Colt, Sig are far greater than the other two (& some others) above.
That said---I am in favor of anthing I trust my life on goes under the knife.
Sigs are the exception---the two I have, have never been touched.
Blessings

LakeErieAmmoLLC · « **Reply #23 on:** September 14, 2009, 05:18:42 PM »

your choice of a 1911 as a nite stand gun is foolish. As this as they say has to be cocked and locked. It is a single action pistol. Yes I know it is an auto but the FIRST ACTION is single. If you decide to leave the hammer down you RISK being the victim. As in the heat of the moment you may forget to COCK the hammer. On the other hand if you have it cocked and locked you risk shooting yourself or the person in the bed next to you. Your best choice is a double action 45 Like the USP compact w/lem trigger group. yes I know the history of the 1911. but for SAFETIES sake get the double action.

JJ79 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 14, 2009, 07:41:18 PM »

Quote from: LakeErieAmmoLLC on September 14, 2009, 05:18:42 PM

your choice of a 1911 as a nite stand gun is foolish. As this as they say has to be cocked and locked. It is a single action pistol. Yes I know it is an auto but the FIRST ACTION is single. If you decide to leave the hammer down you RISK being the victim. As in the heat of the moment you may forget to COCK the hammer. On the other hand if you have it cocked and locked you risk shooting yourself or the person in the bed next to you. Your best choice is a double action 45 Like the USP compact w/lem trigger group. yes I know the history of the 1911. but for SAFETIES sake get the double action.

1st - that's just your preference, which is fine...

2nd - do you really think I would consider leaving a cocked/locked Condition 1 1911 on the nightstand? give me a break...

3rd - my current pistol is a DAO, which I keep in Condition 3 for nightstand duty...mag loaded, chamber empty. if I don't have time to rack the slide, I'm toast anyway. (the 1911 will stay Con 3 on the nightstand as well)

4th - I train weekly with my defense guns, and am quite sure that I WILL NOT FORGET how to get them into action if need be...

5th - betcha I'm not the only person in the world who uses a 1911 for a house gun...

sounds like you just kinda assumed I didn't know anything about guns?

thanks for clueing me in that the 1911 is a single action pistol...

Savage · « **Reply #25 on:** September 15, 2009, 01:55:31 AM »

Quote from: LakeErieAmmoLLC on September 14, 2009, 05:18:42 PM

your choice of a 1911 as a nite stand gun is foolish. As this as they say has to be cocked and locked. It is a single action pistol. Yes I know it is an auto but the FIRST ACTION is single. If you decide to leave the hammer down you RISK being the victim. As in the heat of the moment you may forget to COCK the hammer. On the other hand if you have it cocked and locked you risk shooting yourself or the person in the bed next to you. Your best choice is a double action 45 Like the USP compact w/lem trigger group. yes I know the history of the 1911. but for SAFETIES sake get the double action.

This post is a bit beyond foolish.

Savage

Savage · « **Reply #26 on:** September 15, 2009, 03:30:09 AM »

3rd - my current pistol is a DAO, which I keep in Condition 3 for nightstand duty...mag loaded, chamber empty. if I don't have time to rack the slide, I'm toast anyway. (the 1911 will stay Con 3 on the nightstand as well)

Ultimately it's your choice to assume you are adequately protected with an unloaded gun. Too many things can go wrong when loading a gun under stress, resulting in a really bad situation. I would suggest you find a weapons platform that you are comfortable with that can be kept in a ready condition. Handguns make very poor clubs.
Savage

JJ79 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 15, 2009, 05:57:18 AM »

Quote from: Savage on September 15, 2009, 03:30:09 AM

Ultimately it's your choice to assume you are adequately protected with an unloaded gun. Too many things can go wrong when loading a gun under stress, resulting in a really bad situation. I would suggest you find a weapons platform that you are comfortable with that can be kept in a ready condition. Handguns make very poor clubs.
Savage

Savage...thanks for sharing your opinion in a nice way.

you didn't act like you were a SWAT operator, whilst I was a Cub Scout still learning to shoot a .22 (unlike some folks who posted above

)

and I see your point; it's a good one...

I do disagree one one point however, the part about me having an unloaded gun. I don't consider Condition 3 to be unloaded...that's Condition 4 - chamber empty, no mag loaded.

to test my theory, I suggest we send some poor, unsuspecting guy with no carry permit on a walk...have him open-carry a DAO pistol in Condition 3...then once he's picked up by the boys in blue, have him explain to them that his pistol was unloaded. betcha they'll strongly disagree... but no matter what happened, it'd be fun to watch.

here's my point: it may just be my personal preference/comfort...but Condition 3 for house guns just works for me. if it's on me, then it's Con 1 ALWAYS, no exceptions. but I just feel more comfortable w/Con 3 in the house, for a couple of reasons.

1) see my "4th" point to Mr. SWAT expert above...

I train the way I will shoot, and I'm pretty confident about being able to chamber a round REALLY fast if need be...

2) I have a toddler in the house, so it's Con 3, and up high, the minute I walk in the door...NO EXCEPTIONS. I just figure the odds of my kid getting hold of something she's not supposed to, are way higher than the odds of me actually having to shoot in self-defense in my home....yeah, I live in a boring little "leave it to Beaver" town, in a boring little neighborhood.

3) I can chamber a round in my pistol in less than .5 seconds...if the BG is closer than that, then as stated, I'm probably already toast anyway. if he's not closer than that...then for his sake, (and mine) I hope the sound of that slide sends him on his way, before I have to send him to meet his maker.

4) let's just say I did keep my house gun Con 1...and lets just say the BG was close enough to be on me before I could rack the slide on a Con 3 gun... I am now faced with a grappling match with the BG over a Con 1 pistol, with my wife next to me in bed. NOT a pleasant thought...

5) let's also say that the BG is just a freakin' ninja, and gets into the house, and past my killer daschund...into my room...all w/out waking me up. if he's that good, he stands a good chance of just picking up my own pistol off the nightstand and using it against me. at which point, I would be VERY RELIEVED that it was in Con 3, and he'd have to rack that slide first... at least I'd have a chance then.

I guess it just boils down to the fact that for me personally, Condition 3 for the house gun is the best way to go. but I do see your point about making a pistol ready under stress...that's why I train to be ready for just that situation.

PS - love your signature line!!!

that's awesome!! did you write it, or is it a quote from someone else?

Savage · « **Reply #28 on:** September 15, 2009, 01:50:05 PM »

JJ79,
Your choices are "Your Choices". They are the ones that are right for you. I would point out that you're assuming that you'll always have both hands free to load your pistol when you need it, and hoping an intruder would be put to flight by the sound of a round being chambered. Neither are a given. I agree that repetition conditions an individual to perform certain acts without conscious thought. So lots of training is good. Training under pressure is better!
I have seen pump shotguns "short stroked" under training conditions. Rendering the weapon hopelessly useless until the misfeed has been cleared, magazines not properly seated, and slides short cycled. This under the stress of training, and competition. All could have been fatal errors had it been for real. Just food for thought.
The signature line? Naw, not mine. I picked it up somewhere, author unknown. It just seems appropriate for these times-------sadly! Stay safe, stay prepared!
Savage

buck460XVR · « **Reply #29 on:** September 16, 2009, 02:18:40 PM »

Quote from: LakeErieAmmoLLC on September 14, 2009, 05:18:42 PM

On the other hand if you have it cocked and locked you risk shooting yourself or the person in the bed next to you.

how the 'ell is that? You still need to take the safety off, have your hand around the grip safety, you finger inside the trigger guard and YOUR FINGER PULLING THE TRIGGER, all the while pointing the gun at yourself or your bedmate.

A cocked and locked 1911 is as safe if not safer than walking around in the woods with a loaded deer rifle with the safety on......folks do that everyday....is that foolish also?