Obama Care summerised

[m-g Willy]

, and shill her mongol baby... searching for a political position.






...TM7

This shows your total lack of class!
I don't give a rat's azz about being politicaly correct ,
But when you rip on a womans kid when something is wrong with them ,
You really need a ass kicking!

[Casull]

, and shill her mongol baby... searching for a political position.






...TM7



This shows your total lack of class!
I don't give a rat's azz about being politicaly correct ,
But when you rip on a womans kid when something is wrong with them ,
You really need a ass kicking!

Well, you and I agree on at least one thing.   

[jimster]

, and shill her mongol baby... searching for a political position.


I am offended as well....no matter who's children are talked about in this way.  That be the difference bewteen us, and it is a great difference and makes up who we are and has bearing on how we think about everything in life.

jim

[billy_56081]

I'm still waiting on your answer TM, with your condition and age do you think that HHHcare will put much of their resources toward you or will they just give you a bottle of generic asprin and tell you to go home?

[Cabin4]

Palin was right. Thats why all the left wing liberlas are pissed off. She saw it in the legislation and the liberals were caught with there pants down trying set up there big government committes and panels to detemine who lives and who dies, who get what level of care and who must suffer.

The bill is a joke and a sharade of nothing more than big government liberals trying to socialy engineer society to their liking. If you live in a red state or rural area your care will be grapola. If you live in the big cities and slums with the thugs you will have the best care because thats were thier political support base is. Health care will be nothing more than another political weapon for the liberlas who want to kill off tradition and bring in the new era of big government run amuck over your life. Thats why they hate Palin. Becasue she exposes the liberal communist for exactly what they are, control pigs & freaks.

[Cabin4]

My brother is has been a practicing surgeon for nearly 30 years and his wife's an RN. Both of them think Obama’s plan will destroy the quality of our health care system and raise the costs to tax payers. They know of no other doctor or nurse that supports this pile of garbage. If it passes, they both said they will retire early from the medical field within a couple of years. They have no intention of sticking around till the environment becomes unbearable and the practice he has built becomes worthless.

Incidently, the current system, if you can call it a system, was primarily evolved by liberals and socially minded advocates along the lines of Rousseau's 'social contract' philosophy forced on capitalistic employers, who never really liked such a socialistic idea..  In many many cases regs governing the HC insurance industry have been promulgated by democrats and liberal activists...prompted by those that got burned by the HC system.  So, it is actually quite interesting that so-called conservatives are the main stalwarts that want to perserve this current creation of the libbers and the "I get sick and you pay for system of fee for service on demand"....a very socialistic viewpoint in the first place.

...TM7

5 main reason why Conservatives want to preserve the current system:

1. Its an optional system.You have the choice to participate or not. Uncle Sam has no "RIGHT" to force me into a health care system. Its unconstitutional to force a person into a process that directly controls their person.
2. Illegal aliens have no right to our health care system at tax payers exspense.
3. It's a competative system but we do need reform to make it more competative.This is one of the only areas that needs reform.
4. It's not redistribution of the wealth. The Obama care is redistribution of wealth.
5. The system works perfectly as proven by the fact that 88% of those in the private system like it. I wounder if any other aspect of American life as an 88% approval rating would government be calling for change? NO

The only people who want this crap bag Obama health plan are those who have no plan (the 47million of which 23million are ILLEGALS) and the liberlas who want to control eveyones lives and thier thoughts. So for the sake of the 23million Americans that have or elect not to participate in the health system, we are going to screw it up for the 277 million that are just fine in the plan?? great plan!! Only a liberal could come up with this horrible plan.

[m-g Willy]

, and shill her mongol baby... searching for a political position.






...TM7

This shows your total lack of class!
I don't give a rat's azz about being politicaly correct ,
But when you rip on a womans kid when something is wrong with them ,
You really need a ass kicking!

.

 Take it up with her and her sense of class, too

...TM7

I wasn't talking about Sarah Palin,
I was talking about YOU!

[DDZ]

, and shill her mongol baby... searching for a political position.






...TM7

This shows your total lack of class!
I don't give a rat's azz about being politicaly correct ,
But when you rip on a womans kid when something is wrong with them ,
You really need a ass kicking!

.

Et al.  Too bad....get your medical dictionary out and learn something. Take it up with her and her sense of class, too. That is exactly what she did and so it is news to report on especially since she was in the spread fear mode.. I think it stinks, too, especially after the Letterman bruohaha.  Nobody ripped on her kid...that is what Trig is ....a mongoloid baby I believe is the correct term. You need a reality checkup and to get a grip.  There is no Goddess worship in America...

...TM7

Why use the term mongoloid baby? The term mongoloid is characteristic of a race native to Asia and classified according to physical features. Using the term mongoloid to refer to someone with Down Syndrome is offensive. I believe you know that, and that’s why you used the term mongoloid. Mongoloid is not used to refer to someone with Down Syndrome.

  Your hate for Palin and her family is really shining through TM. We do not see Palin as a Goddess. We see her as a huge breath of fresh air compared to the crap we now have. We see her as someone that is for supporting families, not tearing family structure apart like the liberals have been trying to do for years. We see her for someone that stands for the Constitution and is against big government. We see her as someone that will support the lives of unborn children, and not support murdering them before they are born. We see her as someone that is anti socialism, and most of all we see her as someone that is truthful when she speaks. TM, I forgive you because I know people like you can not relate to the type of character that Palin has, and what she stands for.     

[Cabin4]

, and shill her mongol baby... searching for a political position.






...TM7

This shows your total lack of class!
I don't give a rat's azz about being politicaly correct ,
But when you rip on a womans kid when something is wrong with them ,
You really need a ass kicking!

.

Et al.  Too bad....get your medical dictionary out and learn something. Take it up with her and her sense of class, too. That is exactly what she did and so it is news to report on especially since she was in the spread fear mode.. I think it stinks, too, especially after the Letterman bruohaha.  Nobody ripped on her kid...that is what Trig is ....a mongoloid baby I believe is the correct term. You need a reality checkup and to get a grip.  There is no Goddess worship in America...

...TM7

Why use the term mongoloid baby? The term mongoloid is characteristic of a race native to Asia and classified according to physical features. Using the term mongoloid to refer to someone with Down Syndrome is offensive. I believe you know that, and that’s why you used the term mongoloid. Mongoloid is not used to refer to someone with Down Syndrome.

  Your hate for Palin and her family is really shining through TM. We do not see Palin as a Goddess. We see her as a huge breath of fresh air compared to the crap we now have. We see her as someone that is for supporting families, not tearing family structure apart like the liberals have been trying to do for years. We see her for someone that stands for the Constitution and is against big government. We see her as someone that will support the lives of unborn children, and not support murdering them before they are born. We see her as someone that is anti socialism, and most of all we see her as someone that is truthful when she speaks. TM, I forgive you because I know people like you can not relate to the type of character that Palin has, and what she stands for.     

This hits the nail on the head. The liberals hate Palin because she is the antithesis of anti-Liberalism. It’s because of this, why her popularity continues to grow with conservatives while support for Obama and his big government liberal policies declines. The popularity contest of the last election is over. Now the Liberals have to actually perform as they are in power. Unemployment continues to rise, spending is astronomically out of control and tax increases are on the near horizon and will impact us in every single area of the economy. We are heading for the abyss and the liberals could care less because social structure, order and control take precedence over real steps towards economic security while liberty & individualism become the casualty.

[billy_56081]

So TM what do you think the HHHcare will do with an overweight guy with lots of past heart disease that is about your age? Do you think a guy like that will get the best most expensive care available?

[Cabin4]

So TM what do you think the HHHcare will do with an overweight guy with lots of past heart disease that is about your age? Do you think a guy like that will get the best most expensive care available?

YOU and people like you will get crapola. You don't qualify for excellent care. YOU are too old and less likely to contribute to the Liberal society in any meaningful way. Your early death is of no real consequence to society at large. We can do without you because you are just a burden to the rest of Liberal society. You and your family will have to accept the fact that you will die in support of others more valuable than you can get their health care needs met. YOU are not allowed and it is against the law for you to purchase a private policy to fill any gaps in care that you encounter. YOU are not allowed at your own expense to enter the health care system for any additional care other than that deemed appropriate by the appropriate panel or committee. YOU are not allowed to do this because you would be diverting medical resources away from others the government panels deem need it. It would also set a precedence that those who can afford to care for themselves are subverting the system of fairness employed by the big liberal governments fairness in health care doctrine.

YOUR death helps to solidify the fair and equitable distribution of heath care. No poor person should ever have to see a rich person live while a poor person of lessor means dies for the same/similar medical condition. Fair is fair and your premature death is just good for big liberal government.

Palin is correct. The Liberal lies are uncovered and they hate it when their strategy to ration health care is uncovered. Death panels are real and it is absolutly correct that we shoudl fear our governemnt determining who lives and who does in this process.

[scootrd]

My 2 cent sanity check here.

Do we need HC reform ..Yes
Is the model we have now sustainable in future years. No.
Do most Dems and Reps, libertarians, and independents at present agree on this one single point. Yes
Do I personally like the Bill being pushed through at present. No 
What appears to be the major disagreement is what model to adopt, What should be covered , how will it be paid for, and how best to implement necessary reform. So let's get to work and cut out all this silly elementary school bantering back and forth.

This is not a time for any kind of bi-partisanship. We as a country ALL need to put out heads together (no matter what your affiliations are , Rich , poor , middle (if there is a middle anymore) class.  Large , mid-sized, small companies.  Pharmaceutical, Medical, Insurance sectors etc.

Everyone needs to come to the table and openly discuss the future of HC future in this country and come up with a reasonable future direction for funding. Just saying no to HC reform is not a solution. If your gonna say no to a proposed bill , you need to put forth alternative solutions that can be discussed, debated civily,  and ultimately voted on. What turns me off the most Dem or Rep is if the elected official continues to vote along party lines if a good solution is put forth just cause one side or the other proposed it.

Pandering to the extreme fringes on the far right or far left is not the proper strategy. I believe most Americans in general are growing weary of partisan bickering where nothing ever gets accomplished in Washington. Our elected officials need to start working together. We need every brilliant mind at the table.

__________________________
Personal thoughts regarding Palin.
She may be popular in Alaska (big fish small pond) But when she stepped out on a national stage  -
1.) She was not ready (shame on those close to her)
2.) She is like Hilary C. (polarizing to 50% of the Pop)
3) majority of Americans found her lack of world knowledge frightening.
4.) Discussion regarding Sarah , or any other elected official should never be at the person , but at their ability to perform the Job they are vie -ing for). In my opinion there were alot of other candidates the republicans could have chose from that were much more qualified to assume the office during the last cycle.

This is just MHO - She will make some dough on the book signing circuit, then slowly slip into obscurity. I do not see her as a huge presence in the next election cycle.  (course I may be proven wrong, it wouldn't be the first time)

[billy_56081]

Tort reform needs to be where health care reform starts number one.

[jimster]

"Tort reform needs to be where health care reform starts number one. "

That's a couple of paragraphs in legislation.   Let us also "shop" for insurance...across state lines after Tort is fixed.

Then maybe something else that makes sense...there is about 3 pages of legislation there all together.

The problem is we are more informed than those in government...and the ones trying to back this huge legislation mess that does nothing to reform anything.
Then you have really smart people who know this as well...and try to somehow justify this legislation, even though they can read it too, and understand it. That's called being beholden to some party...to the point where they drag you down and make you look ignorant. 

Not worth it...throw it all out and start from scratch....and yup..start with Tort reform.  That's all our leaders can handle at one time.

[Cabin4]

My 2 cent sanity check here.

Do we need HC reform ..Yes
Is the model we have now sustainable in future years. No.
Do most Dems and Reps, libertarians, and independents at present agree on this one single point. Yes
Do I personally like the Bill being pushed through at present. No 
What appears to be the major disagreement is what model to adopt, What should be covered , how will it be paid for, and how best to implement necessary reform. So let's get to work and cut out all this silly elementary school bantering back and forth.

This is not a time for any kind of bi-partisanship. We as a country ALL need to put out heads together (no matter what your affiliations are , Rich , poor , middle (if there is a middle anymore) class.  Large , mid-sized, small companies.  Pharmaceutical, Medical, Insurance sectors etc.

Everyone needs to come to the table and openly discuss the future of HC future in this country and come up with a reasonable future direction for funding. Just saying no to HC reform is not a solution. If your gonna say no to a proposed bill , you need to put forth alternative solutions that can be discussed, debated civily,  and ultimately voted on. What turns me off the most Dem or Rep is if the elected official continues to vote along party lines if a good solution is put forth just cause one side or the other proposed it.

Pandering to the extreme fringes on the far right or far left is not the proper strategy. I believe most Americans in general are growing weary of partisan bickering where nothing ever gets accomplished in Washington. Our elected officials need to start working together. We need every brilliant mind at the table.

__________________________
Personal thoughts regarding Palin.
She may be popular in Alaska (big fish small pond) But when she stepped out on a national stage  -
1.) She was not ready (shame on those close to her)
2.) She is like Hilary C. (polarizing to 50% of the Pop)
3) majority of Americans found her lack of world knowledge frightening.
4.) Discussion regarding Sarah , or any other elected official should never be at the person , but at their ability to perform the Job they are vie -ing for). In my opinion there were alot of other candidates the republicans could have chose from that were much more qualified to assume the office during the last cycle.

This is just MHO - She will make some dough on the book signing circuit, then slowly slip into obscurity. I do not see her as a huge presence in the next election cycle.  (course I may be proven wrong, it wouldn't be the first time)

If we agree the bill on the floor is garbage, then it should be eliminated as an option to reform health care.

One thing we do not need, is a big government takeover of the system. I like the system we have. It works perfect for me and my family. I'm not willing to give anything away that reduces my quaility of care while at the same time increases my costs. I don't give a crape about other people who have no health care. There problem is not my problem.

[scootrd]

One thing we do not need, is a big government takeover of the system. I like the system we have. It works perfect for me and my family. I'm not willing to give anything away that reduces my quaility of care while at the same time increases my costs. I don't give a crape about other people who have no health care. There problem is not my problem.

Cabin4
The reason why you need to care is if we can find a reasonable way to entice more young people to pick up some of the HC and insurance costs, then the pool grows and everyone's premiums lessens. If you can help families who are below the poverty level afford HC through some incentive or subsidized matching care then the pool grows and everyone's HC costs lessen. If we can give small to mid-cap Businesses incentives where they can receive some relief , they can help stop the erosion of HC they can afford to provide their employees. If we can increase the overall pool of people kicking in then Insurance and Med Co's can lower their overall costs.

I have worked with very proud hard working people who make a little over minimum wage and cannot afford HC for their children.
No child or no human being for that matter , should be without HC , or shoes, or a warm winter Jacket , or a warm meal in their Belly every night. These is not a "Liberal" statement. This is a Christian statements!!!

Are you truly willing to pass up  extending a hand up (not a hand out) to a hard working single mom waitress-ing 12 hour shifts to provide her child a better life than she has by offering her some level of HC for her and her child. If she remains uninsured and requires emergent care who do you think picks that up today?. We all do!!! Providing her subsidized care where she kicks in what she can afford helps us all , individuals, insurance Co's, Hospitals, etc..  who don't have to write the loss off and businesses alike.   


I truly don't believe you feel the way you came across.

Providing every human being some level of basic health care is the moral and christian thing to do.
Luke 10:25-37
 25On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
 26"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
 27 He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
 28 "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."
 29But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"
 30In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead.
31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side.
32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.
33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him.
34He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him.
35The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'
36"Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"
37The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him."
  Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

[Cabin4]

Then there is the second group of person who is most concerned with humanity in general. and the direction mankind is sailing.  This group may be more rarified and consist of the flowers of mankind who struggle to improve the lot of mankind.  This would include the world's greates spiritual teachers and guides and others who tried to minimize suffereing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


.TM7

There is NOTHING, about big government takeover of the private health care system that should lead anyone to the conclusion that humanity will be better off. So it appears that the Obama care plan fails short on all fronts

All those in favor of a health care system designed to allegedly be capable of providing this important issue for humanity can move to Canada or Europe. There they can have all their concerns for humanity met. The rest of us who believe in taking care of self, can stay here. It works perfect that way. The Liberals have a place to go and those who feel our responsibility is first to our own family have a place to live free from the chains of big government.

How anyone can look at our government and conclude they can fix something by running it is perverted. If you want reform health care, address the real issues and quite the charade this political move is really all about. The liberals move on heath care is NOTHING more than a tactical initiative to the real end game. The real end game is running the political system. They know if they can make health care an entitlement like SS, Medicare, Medicade, RX, etc, they usually can always win on those issues in the poles. Liberals are always willing to spend money we don’t have to win votes. They could care less if it destroys the economy because most liberals are communist and they hate the free markets and capitalism. The liberals have nothing to lose and only something to gain no matter what the outcome.

[Cabin4]

One thing we do not need, is a big government takeover of the system. I like the system we have. It works perfect for me and my family. I'm not willing to give anything away that reduces my quaility of care while at the same time increases my costs. I don't give a crape about other people who have no health care. There problem is not my problem.

Cabin4
The reason why you need to care is if we can find a reasonable way to entice more young people to pick up some of the HC and insurance costs, then the pool grows and everyone's premiums lessens. If you can help families who are below the poverty level afford HC through some incentive or subsidized matching care then the pool grows and everyone's HC costs lessen. If we can give small to mid-cap Businesses incentives where they can receive some relief , they can help stop the erosion of HC they can afford to provide their employees. If we can increase the overall pool of people kicking in then Insurance and Med Co's can lower their overall costs.

I have worked with very proud hard working people who make a little over minimum wage and cannot afford HC for their children.
No child or no human being for that matter , should be without HC , or shoes, or a warm winter Jacket , or a warm meal in their Belly every night. Are you truly willing to pass up  extending a hand up (not a hand out) to a hard working single mom waitress-ing 12 hour shifts to provide her child a better life than she has by offering her some level of HC for her and her child. If she remains uninsured and requires emergent care who do you think picks that up today?. We all do!!! Providing her subsidized care where she kicks in what she can afford helps us all , individuals, insurance Co's, Hospitals, etc..  who don't have to write the loss off and businesses alike.   


I truly don't believe you feel the way you came across.

Providing every human being some level of basic health care is the moral and christian thing to do.

.If they need care, there is NO public hospital in this country that can turn them away. How about not covering illegal aliens who have NO right to be here let alone sponge off our system yet even more???

Anyone concerned with health care reform should be looking at root cause corrective actions. What actions are being taken on tort? What actions are being taken to improve competition? What about patients rights? There is nothing in this bill that provides improvement on ANY equitable level. I should not have to pay more and get less while some government bureaucrat in Washington can determine if I live or die. That is BS and not Christian so let’s leave Christ out of this argument.

I love it when the Liberals invoke Jesus into the debate. It’s always okay to bring in Christ to buttress their position but when a conservative does it, we always get the separation of church and state BS.

[scootrd]

I brought up Jesus , but Cabin 4 responded before I could finish posting.
And regardless of the twist Cabin4 tried to put on it.
I am not a flaming liberal. I am a Christian, And I stand by my post. .

[Cabin4]

I did not exactly bring Jesus into the debate, but did mention enlightened souls who try to better mankind on occassion as a core philosophy, refusing to drag mankind down to its basic carnel instincts. You brought up Jesus for some reason, or he was on your mind; but since you did...yes, I want a HC system as per Mathew, and as Jesus would design it....that would work for me. How about you... would you have a problem with that?

I love it when so-called conservatives really think they are conservative.


..TM7

Read the posts. I did not bring up Jesus someone else did. I just responded to that.

So while your quoting the Bible, show me were it says that the government should provide health care?

All this is a diversion from the real truth and the strategy of the Liberals. They could give a crape about Jesus. They just want to control peoples lives and if envoking Jesus helps them they will. It's all a big fat lie based on the premise that big government can solve everything. While the track record supports just the opposite.

[DDZ]

Well said Cabin. This HC scam is not about offering a hand out. Its just a big government takeover so they can control your life. I really can't see how anyone can see it any differently. If it really was just about getting the uninsured, HC. Government's aim would just be toward those people, who are mostly illegal’s anyway.  Why not give the poor and tough cases health stamps and let the rest of us buy health care and insurance on the free market. Even two decades after the collapse of the liberals beloved Soviet Union, they can’t grasp that its easier and cheaper to obtain any service provided by capitalism than any service provided under socialism.

I can see the Obama HC plan getting watered down to get it passed, and a foot in the door. After that look out! Government will eventually rule your life. If not yours, certainly your kids and Grandkids.

While our government is at it, why not universal food coverage? Isn’t food important? If government and employers had guaranteed us free food 50 years ago, today democrats would be crying about the food crises in America, and you’d be on the phone with your food care provider arguing about whether or not a hamburger with fries was covered under your plan. 

TM, you forgot to include all the definition of Mongoloid, but that’s ok we know you don’t like to see Palin with her family, because that’s part of what Palin is about. Also the mankind that is struggling to improve mankind, that you mentioned, are you talking about governments great welfare experiment that has done nothing but enslave people. Before your beloved democrats started taxing the heck out of everybody. Communities, churches and organizations took care of poor people. After all the liberal socialists couldn’t stand the thought of people taking care of other people.       

Lets see, a hard working single women, waitressing 12 hr shifts to provide for her child. Don’t the liberals just love this story. You hear it all the time. Where is the husband in this story? If you have a child shouldn’t you be married? If she was married, what happened to the vows she took to live together after Gods ordinance- in the Holy state of Matrimony? Wait I forgot, liberals have done everything they can to destroy the traditional family. If she wasn’t married what is she doing with a child? Wait I forgot Liberals are teaching kids in school now, that its ok to have children out of wedlock. Because our government will take care of them. Have one child and they will give you money, have two children and they will give you more money. Etc……..

Scootrd, being a Christian isn’t about letting Government take our money and handing it out as they see fit. Its about having the love of Christ in you, and you as a person doing the giving to truly needy people. Christians should not be in line with anything government has been trying to do with HC.     

[scootrd]

I never said Gov't should provide health care. As a matter of fact if you go back and read my posts I have unequivocally stated am not for the Bill as it now stands. What I did respond to why you should care about some form of HC reform, and be less self centered.

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today.  Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime” (in other words , provide some reform to enable a person to afford some level of basic health care and it benefits us all.

[Cabin4]

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today.  Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime” (in other words , provide some reform to enable a person to afford some level of basic health care and it benefits us all.

I agree with this. If we are calling it reform so we can bring additional people into an insurance program, then that should be the bulls eye. Not this POS that Obama and the big government liberal take over, control your life, create a political weapon BS is all about.

[Casull]

No child or no human being for that matter , should be without HC

Another person confusing health care with medical insurance.  As previously noted, nobody is without health care (levels may vary, but if in need, health care can be had by all).  Where I believe that much of the problem has arisen is in what people expect of medical insurance.  They whine if their copay on a doctor's visit rises from $5 to $10, or if there copay on a prescription goes up a couple of bucks.  Odd how people who have no problem paying for a second car or a bigger house think that they should pay NOTHING for their own health care.  I carry a major medical policy that I pay for myself.  It does not cover prescriptions or doctor's visits, but does cover hospitalization and the big stuff.  If I have a doctor's appointment, I pay for it.  If I need a prescription, I pay for it.  Medical insurance should be for the big stuff, not for basic care for yourself.  Sheeesh, people pay $300 or $400 for a set of tires and then scream if they have to pay $60 for a checkup.   

[billy_56081]

I still want to know if TM thinks that a guy that is overweight and has had a history of heart desease about your age will have the expensive type therapy or just be told to take a half an asperin a day and go home?

[Cabin4]

Since you and Cabin hate the government,find them totally inept to do anything, and equate HC reform with the sky falling, (except for the aforementioned war waging on Global war of Terra to make the world safe for the global economy) then I wonder what country you and he might move to escape your nightmare. I understand China has no HC system at all, the world's numero uno socialist country and economic dynamo, perhaps moving there might be a consideration..??  Where will you go..?

..TM7

The question you should be asking is what country should you and your alike go too? I'm in the right country, founded on principals of individualism, liberty, freedom and a small unobtrusive federal government. If you have any questions about this, read the constitution.

You & your alike are the ones that need to find a new place to live. You have many choices out there for the taking. Canada and Europe are calling you home. Go, go and get your free health care and all the other free giveaways. You could probably never work another day and just be fine living off the work and labor of others. Sounds fulfilling. Don’t let the lack of free-bees here stop you from fulfilling your lifelong dream of a liberal welfare state. They already exist. Leave us low life, anti-Christian, self centered constitutionalist to our ilk.

[nomosendero]

There are basically two kinds of people in the world. Those focused on self primarily and those that focus on mankind on occassion. Here we have an example of the first kind:

One thing we do not need, is a big government takeover of the system. I like the system we have. It works perfect for me and my family. I'm not willing to give anything away that reduces my quaility of care while at the same time increases my costs. I don't give a crape about other people who have no health care. There problem is not my problem.

Which is the I got mine jack and the hell with everybody else school of thought.  They will fight for the social insurance coverage they now have as a group covered member. But instinct tells them to fight and thwart change.  Logic says they should op for all ending of the social convention of group shared  HC insurance and perfer self insurance or pay as you go,,,but they won't.

Then there is the second group of person who is most concerned with humanity in general. and the direction mankind is sailing.  This group may be more rarified and consist of the flowers of mankind who struggle to improve the lot of mankind.  This would include the world's greates spiritual teachers and guides and others who tried to minimize suffereing.

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Scootrd....very well said sir as a voice of reason. I concur. It is not too much to ask for consideration and a cooperative spirit to solve some of these HC concerns in effort to develop a real HC system. Unfortunately, the process is momentarily derailed by fear mongering and misinfo. No, I do not currently like the current HC version of reform. I had high hopes for this and the great possibilites. Unfortunately divide and conquer rule at the moment.

I also agree with you on Ms. Palin...I like her but not presidential material at this time and perhaps never, imo.


..TM7

"there are basically two kinds of people in the world. Those focused on self primarily & those that focus on mankind in general." Well kindof, but opposite of the way stated. Our founders were NOT thinking of self in the creation of our Constitution, rather for the good of future generations. And a Nat. Healthcare system had ZERO to do with it. It is amazing to watch some on this forum talk the virtues of the Constituition when it suits them, but want and feel entitled to a handout on this issue. Can't have it both ways.

[billy_56081]

Health care reform needs to start with tort reform. No ifs ands or buts, after that is solved we can start fixing the rest of it.

[billy_56081]

Actually it is estimated that about 50 percent of health care costs are protecting against malpractice. In the form of insurance added tedting and specialised physician visits.


Now TM how about my previous question? Do you think HHHcare is going to do much for an overweight guy with a history of self induced heart disease?

[Cabin4]

Health care reform needs to start with tort reform. No ifs ands or buts, after that is solved we can start fixing the rest of it.

.
What the heck does tort reform have to do with HC insurance delivery programming at this time...? You thinking somebody might take you to a civil damages court in the future for something, huh...?

Civil suit awards on damages against the med industry are actually pretty low in this country.

..TM7

TM7,

What the heck is wrong with you? The cost that doctors pay for their annual medical litigation insurance is passed on to patience’s. The typical doctor pays in excess of $60k per year in just medical malpractice insurance. Some doctors in some states are pay in excess of $200k per year for the same policy.  The fear that doctors have from being sued by patience’s for BS issues causes doctors to perform tests & procedures that likely do not have to be taken. Doctors are performing these tests and procedure as part of their continuing defense against potentially being sued. Tests and procedures that DO NOT have to be done are being done which drives up the costs. It’s not the whopper judgments in the court room that cause the costs it’s the insurance premiums that doctors pay and the defensive unneeded tests & procedures they order for their patience’s.

Tort reform is an essential component to driving down the costs of health care. Anyone who says different is just plain uninformed or is ignoring the facts. Since tort reform is not part of the horrible bill in congress that been offered by the Liberals, Liberals like TM7 try to provide cover for this gaping hole in the Liberal solution. The reason why the Liberals will never agree to any tort reform is because they are in the back pocket of the Trial Lawyers association. The lawyers hate tort reform. They want a healthy litigious environment full of court rooms with people suing each other. It helps keep the lawyers working and their big fat salaries pumping in. The Trail Lawyers association sees a single payer government run health care system as a nothing more than a big fat tax payer funded deep pocket law suit. They love the idea of the government taking over health care. It will make them even more rich.

TM7…You don’t know POOP about the real cost drivers in our health care system or the problems. Your all about big government liberal programs even if it drives us over a cliff in the process. All so you can get your free health care while everyone else pays for it and suffers for you. When you have No skin in the game, it’s easy to tell everyone else how to play.