Author Topic: Obama Care summerised  (Read 12788 times)

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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #240 on: August 23, 2009, 03:02:39 PM »
"Tell ya what , Keep that view , That way you can give back your Social security check so it remains more solvant for me when I retire.
And if you ever lose your monies through a failed bank don't ask it to be replaced by the FDIC as it is obviously a communist entity."




Once again we see your socialist parasitic tendancies of you wanting something of mine. I am sure you have been fully indoctrinated into the socialist theology since childhood so it is not your fault, you know no better.

FDR started America on this socialist road and it has lead here to what we have no, you see I use the word parasite as it is a perfect anology. The decent working folks and buisiness folks in America would be a host critter, the freeloaders and thoise who want something for nothing are the parasites. When the parsties get to be to much of a burden on the host, illness sets in,( that is where America is at this point). After that there are two things that can happen to the host, one it can die and take all of the parasites with it, or 2 it can get rid of the parasites and regain its health. Well I want the host to get healthy.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Online ironglow

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #241 on: August 23, 2009, 03:05:09 PM »
Scootrd;
  Why turn in  his SS check..he paid into it all his life..and it used to be a "trust fund".. until the "Great Society" L.B.J. decioded to betray that trust and dip his greasy fingers into it. Liberals cannot keep their fingers off any accumulated wealth..as the great Ronaldus Magnus once said in speaking of a liberal congress; ..(paraphrased) congress is like a new baby; a loud noise and an insatiable intake at one end and an uncontrollable alimentary canal at the other end.
  You claim you are not a liberal, yet you espouse all these socialist philosophies. You must be a remarkable person, because I never met a hard line Socialist that wasn't also hard line Liberal.  
    You staked your claim as a Christian...  Again:liberal/Socialism is incompatible with orthodox Christianity.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline DDZ

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #242 on: August 23, 2009, 03:16:16 PM »
Scoord, since you were quoting Jefferson. This in Jefferson’s words: “Our peculiar security is the possession of a written Constitution. Let us not make it a blank paper by construction.” Is this not what the advocates of the living Constitution want to do? The living Constitution does not restrain the judiciary from deciding whatever it thinks is good. Again, the living Constitution is not what the framers intended. Because it allows the structure of the constitution itself to be changed. 
The founders concern was not to keep the constitution in tune with the times, but to keep the times in tune with the Constitution. This is why the framers assigned to the judiciary the task of protecting the Constitution as it was written. The Constitution is long lived, has enduring qualities, and was intended for the ages, this cannot be doubted. It can be changed when, and if, the people ordain such change is a part of its own provisions. This has nothing to do with the idea of a living Constitution. Where its structure would be changed.   

 The last person I heard say that we have a Constitution that should change with the times was Al Gore. Needless to say I agreed with nothing this man said, and many others felt the same.   

Social security is every bit a scoialist program as universal HC would be. Yes FDR helped create a lot of socialist program. Also banks would not fail if left alone by our government, but no, government thinks there is a need for intervention in the free market.   

No scoord I don't bet on anything. If you want to bet I'm sure there is a government run casino in your home town.
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline DDZ

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #243 on: August 23, 2009, 03:21:23 PM »
 Again:liberal/Socialism is incompatible with orthodox Christianity.

This statement could never be any truer. You can take that to the bank!!
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline scootrd

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #244 on: August 23, 2009, 04:01:20 PM »
 Again:liberal/Socialism is incompatible with orthodox Christianity.

This statement could never be any truer. You can take that to the bank!!

My response to Billy had nothing to do with socialism , He Said Most people consider FDR a communist. (in response to reading FDR's The Economic Bill of rights and attacking me thinking that I wrote it  (After of course he was educated that I didn't write it .. His response back was FDR was a considered a communist by "most people"

And since His programs were obviously subversive and communistic (news to my grand parents by the way)  was offering him suggestions to help him keep his views so He can separate himself from FDR's communistic regime, and maintain a clear conscience.

BTW - Since 1948 FDR has been Ranked in the top 5 all time Greatest US presidents. (actually never falling below 3rd).

_______________________________________________

“Laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind, “As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstance, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.” - Thomas Jefferson

"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #245 on: August 23, 2009, 04:03:50 PM »
Did I ever say you wrote it? I called your ideology sick.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline scootrd

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #246 on: August 23, 2009, 04:14:06 PM »
Did I ever say you wrote it? I called your ideology sick.

Just because I post something ..doesn't mean it's my Ideology.. I was asking people what they thought of it.


I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #247 on: August 23, 2009, 04:17:54 PM »
Obviously you do not know any better. I kind of pitty you. I would imagine you have been indoctrinated to want a handout for so long you know no better. You even asked for me to give you my SS, I bet you didn't know I paid SS in. I wish I was in control of it, but alas I will have to GIVE you some.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline scootrd

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #248 on: August 23, 2009, 04:20:58 PM »
Obviously you do not know any better. I kind of pitty you. I would imagine you have been indoctrinated to want a handout for so long you know no better. You even asked for me to give you my SS, I bet you didn't know I paid SS in. I wish I was in control of it, but alas I will have to GIVE you some.

I was making a point .. which you obviously cannot understand. The president who gave you SS ..is the one you determined was a communist. So why would you want to benefit from a communistic program put in place by a communistic president.
and especially one who belives in the following rights

    * The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
    * The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
    * The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
    * The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
    * The right of every family to a decent home;
    * The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
    * The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
    * The right to a good education.

FDR you damn communist
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #249 on: August 23, 2009, 04:27:28 PM »
Obviously you do not know any better. I kind of pitty you. I would imagine you have been indoctrinated to want a handout for so long you know no better. You even asked for me to give you my SS, I bet you didn't know I paid SS in. I wish I was in control of it, but alas I will have to GIVE you some.

I was making a point .. which you obviously cannot understand. The president who gave you SS ..is the one you determined was a communist. So why would you want to benefit from a communistic program put in place by a communistic president.
[/quote


I have no choice to pay it in, I am forced to. I am being forced to support parasites who do not want to earn their own. I would love to have had control of the money I put into SS for the parasites to suck the blood out of. As I say, you really are not to blame you have been taught and indotrinated to feel others are obligated to take care of you all your life. I am sorry to be the one bursting your bubble, but someonehas to pay for all this free stuff you think you should have.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline scootrd

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #250 on: August 23, 2009, 04:31:34 PM »
Obviously you do not know any better. I kind of pitty you. I would imagine you have been indoctrinated to want a handout for so long you know no better. You even asked for me to give you my SS, I bet you didn't know I paid SS in. I wish I was in control of it, but alas I will have to GIVE you some.

Quote
I was making a point .. which you obviously cannot understand. The president who gave you SS ..is the one you determined was a communist. So why would you want to benefit from a communistic program put in place by a communistic president.

Quote
I have no choice to pay it in, I am forced to. I am being forced to support parasites who do not want to earn their own. I would love to have had control of the money I put into SS for the parasites to suck the blood out of. As I say, you really are not to blame you have been taught and indotrinated to feel others are obligated to take care of you all your life. I am sorry to be the one bursting your bubble, but someonehas to pay for all this free stuff you think you should have.

So all our parents are parasites (you do realize the monies you put into SS are not for your retirement, They are to pay for the generation before us?
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #251 on: August 23, 2009, 04:35:59 PM »
My parents paid SS so they are not parasites. Hey I think you may be on the verge of some actual learning, not just acting on what you are told is tru in your indoctrination.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #252 on: August 23, 2009, 04:39:30 PM »
Scootrd

I think whats getting everyone riled up is FDRs use of the word "right". When we have discussions about political aspects and the word "right" is used, many including me thionk of  this phrase used in one of our most famous documents:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

FDR just took to much liberty with the use of the word "right".  
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Online ironglow

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #253 on: August 24, 2009, 01:11:50 AM »
Obviously you do not know any better. I kind of pitty you. I would imagine you have been indoctrinated to want a handout for so long you know no better. You even asked for me to give you my SS, I bet you didn't know I paid SS in. I wish I was in control of it, but alas I will have to GIVE you some.

I was making a point .. which you obviously cannot understand. The president who gave you SS ..is the one you determined was a communist. So why would you want to benefit from a communistic program put in place by a communistic president.
and especially one who belives in the following rights

    * The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
    * The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
    * The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
    * The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
    * The right of every family to a decent home;
    * The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
    * The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
    * The right to a good education.

FDR you damn communist

   Scootrd;
  Those are for the most part, nice things to happen..but in reading the Constitution, I see none of those "rights" delineated. The problem with a socialist government demanding so many peripheral rights beyond those guaranteed by the Constitution, is a matter of enforcement.
  When the rights already granted by the Constitution..life, liberty & property are threatened, theoretically our govt will bring it force to bear upon the perpetrators. When the life , liberty and even our land is endangered by a foreign enemy, our military is called out to repel the invaders. In theory, if we are threatened with loss of life, liberty or property domestically our govt should protect our interests with the full use of law enforcement agencies.
  If such ironclad "rights" were to be expanded to virtually every facet of our lives, a very large force would be required to watch over the manifold & sundry "rights" of each of 300 million citizens. Since the military constitutionally (Waco notwithstanding), cannot be used against civilians..a large, internal para-military force would be required.
   Other Socialist systems have instituted just such internal, paramilitary forces. Thus, the Soviets had their KGB, the Nazis had their Brownshirts and Socialist regimes around the world (Cuba, China, Cambodia etc) all had this type of forces.....

  Is that what we really want for our country ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #254 on: August 24, 2009, 04:32:31 AM »
Obviously you do not know any better. I kind of pitty you. I would imagine you have been indoctrinated to want a handout for so long you know no better. You even asked for me to give you my SS, I bet you didn't know I paid SS in. I wish I was in control of it, but alas I will have to GIVE you some.

I was making a point .. which you obviously cannot understand. The president who gave you SS ..is the one you determined was a communist. So why would you want to benefit from a communistic program put in place by a communistic president.
and especially one who belives in the following rights

    * The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
    * The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
    * The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
    * The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
    * The right of every family to a decent home;
    * The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
    * The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
    * The right to a good education.

FDR you damn communist

   Scootrd;
  Those are for the most part, nice things to happen..but in reading the Constitution, I see none of those "rights" delineated. The problem with a socialist government demanding so many peripheral rights beyond those guaranteed by the Constitution, is a matter of enforcement.
  When the rights already granted by the Constitution..life, liberty & property are threatened, theoretically our govt will bring it force to bear upon the perpetrators. When the life , liberty and even our land is endangered by a foreign enemy, our military is called out to repel the invaders. In theory, if we are threatened with loss of life, liberty or property domestically our govt should protect our interests with the full use of law enforcement agencies.
  If such ironclad "rights" were to be expanded to virtually every facet of our lives, a very large force would be required to watch over the manifold & sundry "rights" of each of 300 million citizens. Since the military constitutionally (Waco notwithstanding), cannot be used against civilians..a large, internal para-military force would be required.
   Other Socialist systems have instituted just such internal, paramilitary forces. Thus, the Soviets had their KGB, the Nazis had their Brownshirts and Socialist regimes around the world (Cuba, China, Cambodia etc) all had this type of forces.....

  Is that what we really want for our country ?

Ironglow,

Excellent analogy. Spot on. When a government decides to convert privileges into "Rights", that government will and must become opressive. Our founders tried to protect the "people" from this situation and thus the constitution and specifically section 8 which limited and provides barriers on the power of congress. Unfortunitly, over time, unconstitutional laws and or actions by congress have eroded this principal and our federal government keeps over reaching its authority. In order to continue to preserve the overreaching laws, they must over reach again and again and again to enforce the previous unconstitutional over reaching laws/action. It like perpetual motion and our founding fathers new it was a risk. They called it Tyranny and we are seeing it now more than ever.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #255 on: August 24, 2009, 10:08:11 AM »
Quote
Excellent analogy. Spot on. When a government decides to convert privileges into "Rights", that government will and must become repressive. Our founders tried to protect the "people" from this situation and thus the constitution and specifically section 8 which limited and provides barriers on the power of congress. Unfortunitly, over time, unconstitutional laws and or actions by congress have eroded this principal and our federal government keeps over reaching its authority. In order to continue to preserve the overreaching laws, they must over reach again and again and again to enforce the previous unconstitutional over reaching laws/action. It like perpetual motion and our founding fathers new it was a risk. They called it Tyranny and we are seeing it now more than ever.
.
"When a government decides to convert privileges into "Rights", that government will and must become repressive. Our founders tried to protect the "people" from this situation and thus the constitution and specifically section 8 which limited and provides barriers on the power of congress."


How do you figure this anyway.?  FDR, as a citizen, was merely talking or expounding on rights he thought necessary
for citizens to have as free people.. You claim the Constititution forbids even this. Then you use section 8 as a concrete code that is being used as tryanny against the PEOPLE (notice, all caps) to keep people enslaved not be ing permitted to elaborate their rights, or ununited. That is one of the key reasons Tom jefferson (and he could have signed latter), Patrick Henry , Andrew Jackson and a 1/3 of the Convention refused to sign the Constitution and why Washington had federal police drag attendees to the hall.  The contentions surrounding the Constitution were many,,,as shown by newspaper and writings of the period. Most claimed the Constitution set up a rulership of central elitiest over and above the people; and your interpretations are an example.  The Articles of Confederation is the true fredom baring document of the States.  Why do you think some insisted on the B o R added......to elaborate on "rights"..?


Even so there remains some relief from this paralysis in the document:

Art2 section 3...gives the president duty to give a state of the union examination...in which such matters and measures shall be taken on as judged necessary.

To do this  Art1, section 8..lastly says Congress shall make laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying out into execution of the foregoing pwers, AND ALL OTHER POWERS VESTED in this Constitution in the government of the US, OR in any department or offices thereof..( such as Article 2, section 3)

Then amend 10 The enumeration of rights in the Constitution of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.  This means the Constitution shall not be used as a tyranny unto itself or to deny rights...or actions by the PEOPLE,,,such as solving their HC problems.

Likewise in amend 10 The powers not delegated to the US by the Con, nor prohibited by it to the Stae3s are reserved to the Staes respectively, OR TO THE PEOPLE. There is not constitutional tyranny allowed supposedly. People simply have rights and the power to do something about them.


...TM7

Everyone has those rights already. The only thing standing between you and those rights espoused by FDR is yourself. The government should have no role in directly guaranteeing those rights. Because if it does, it must institute oppressive force in order to give it to those who are too stupid or simply don't want it on their own. A good example of this is health care. The government is going to force/make people who don't want health care and forces them to buy it. That is oppressive.

I also said there is nothing wrong with those things that FDR espoused as long as they are feasable and done within the confines of the constitution. Replace the word "right" with the word "opportunity" and I'm okay with this as a set of ideas as a nation.

    * The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
    * The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
    * The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
    * The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
    * The right of every family to a decent home;
    * The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
    * The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
    * The right to a good education.

Since all these are already well within the grasp of every single American, the opportunity is there for the taking. I would argue, that issues such as affirmative action & quotas directly violate FDR's principals listed above. In the case of affirmative action and quotos, this goes directly to the point about the government determining specifically who gets these opportunities via oppressive/tyranny means. So affirmative action and quotes are in fact, unconstitutional. FDR should be rolling in his grave today.



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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #256 on: August 24, 2009, 10:15:53 AM »
On your point about this:

Likewise in amend 10 The powers not delegated to the US by the Con, nor prohibited by it to the Stae3s are reserved to the Staes respectively, OR TO THE PEOPLE. There is not constitutional tyranny allowed supposedly. People simply have rights and the power to do something about them.

"The People" already have health care and anyone who wants it can buy it. So whats the issue? What role does congress have on this point? None.

If a Sate wants to propose health care for it's citizens, let go ahead and do it. that state legislature can take it up with the people of that state. If a law is passed that does nto violate the federal constituion or the state constitution, then that state will have the health care option they want. In any case, no state can implement a health care plan that is desigend to under-cut private insurance. That would be unconstitutional on all fronts.

This health care proposal is nothing more than an over reaching & oppresive governement trying to control the free will of the people. Its clearly Unconstitutional.


Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #257 on: August 24, 2009, 11:43:01 AM »
Everybody has those rights already..?  But want assurances and MOREOVER WANT TO EXERCIZE THOSE RIGHTS, not just opportunity.  The rest is semantics.

Last post,,,not only do 'some' people have HC...'some' being operatively a form of rationing in a tiered system; BUT they want more and better HC, and to assure it's delivery for years to come without breaking them. Thusly, appealing to elected reps to assure this goal by using the Constitution to promote, rather than using it to prevent.

..TM7

Yes, we all have equal access/opportunity today. There already is a level playing field. Some people just perform better on the field and they get more.

We can appeal to elected reps to ensure the playing field is truly level. In the case of health care, governments regulation IS partially to blame for the higher costs. One dimension of health care rising costs is simply advancement in new tests and procedures. These new tests and procedures cost money that was not spent previously. People are living longer and thus also contributes to more money being spent in health care. So what do we do?

1. Tort reform. 10% of health care is spent on this area.
2. Remove barriers to competition. Let providers sell across state lines.
3. Anything further is a state issue.

If our federal government would stop trying to solve all problems, the states would be forced to act as they are suppose to. What can work for New York may not work in Idaho, ect.
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Offline 1marty

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #258 on: August 24, 2009, 01:08:54 PM »
I saw where they were asking wounded vets to access their quality of life in an on line questionaire. It seems to direct them to withdrawing medical care since they are a burden on their loved ones. What a country!!!!!!!

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #259 on: August 24, 2009, 01:19:16 PM »
In other words, our government is slating these people to die or just go away so the money can be used to give health care to illegal aliens. Seems perfect to me. ::)
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #260 on: August 24, 2009, 02:26:04 PM »
Hey TM maybe I am on to someting here, we have asked where your from many times without an answer. I think it just hit me why you want this parasitic health care plan to pass. Are you an illegal alien? I think I just had an epipheny.


Dude you are going to be a riot at the BBQ, I'll try to keep La Migra away.
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Online ironglow

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #261 on: August 24, 2009, 03:07:35 PM »
IG...FDR was elaborating on the pursuit of happiness and general welfare of the nation. He skillfully fought off the hardcore commies and agitators maneurering for ww2.  Where does it say Christianity is against socialism or any other economic system entirely?

Scootrd,,,not only that.. what Billy will have to turn down:...he should remove kids from socialized schools, refuse police and fire protection, and avoid driving on public roads. After a life of careless weight control and a fat impounded heart, he will have a reconciliation problem being taken to the non-profit Mayo Clinic, modeled on Euro ideas, and will have to decline work on himself by any doctor's coming out of socialized countries or that received financial aid getting their degrees.

BTW, SS is not only an annuity program...IT IS A NATIONAL INSURANCE PROGRAM, specifically disability and survivor benifts...the best the world has ever seen. To bad it got raided.


...TM7

  TM; Your first sentence..if elaborating upon the pursuit of happiness causes a prez to attempt to create 8 new ironclad "rights" out of whole cloth..bred from single genuine right; something is very wrong.
  A bit of history..FDR did not overdo the fight against "hardcore Commies"..he had one named Alger Hiss right by his side as chief advisor throughout WW2..that is exactly why Stalin did so well at the Yalta conference and gained Communist dominance over eastern Europe for half a century. The "agitators" who disturbed FDR were guys like Charles Lindberg, who became a burr under FDR's saddle, campaigning for isolationism and non-involvement.
  You enjoy a good conspiracy..have you never heard of the conspiracy saying FDR ignored clear warnings about Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, because he needed an excuse to get us into WW2?  You really ought to check it out, I think you would truly relish it ! We were attacked at about 7:00 AM Pearl time..All four major aircraft carriers were out to sea, while obsolescent battleships were still in Pearl ..FDR declared war upon Japan early afternoon..DC time..just an hour or two after the attack; almost as if he had his speech all ready to use.

   And why should Billy not use public schools, police, fire departments and public roads ? ..He pays for them also. I think you know full well there are certain things nobody argues about that must be done by the feds..military, interstate highways, FAA, tariffs etc.... and you also know that it is the frivilous, silly programs that need not be covered which turn most off. I have enumerated some of these wastes before !
    Shucks !  We don't start earning our own money until some time in mid August . Tax freedom day used to be in mid July, but since Obama's wild spending frenzy , it has moved to August..


  BTW: Scootrd..you claim FDR has been rated very high ;) :D ;D ...you know full well..it kinda depends upon WHO is doing the rating  :D :-*
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #262 on: August 24, 2009, 03:38:22 PM »
Everybody has those rights already..?  But want assurances and MOREOVER WANT TO EXERCIZE THOSE RIGHTS, not just opportunity.  The rest is semantics.

Last post,,,not only do 'some' people have HC...'some' being operatively a form of rationing in a tiered system; BUT they want more and better HC, and to assure it's delivery for years to come without breaking them. Thusly, appealing to elected reps to assure this goal by using the Constitution to promote, rather than using it to prevent.

..TM7

Yes, we all have equal access/opportunity today. There already is a level playing field. Some people just perform better on the field and they get more.

We can appeal to elected reps to ensure the playing field is truly level. In the case of health care, governments regulation IS partially to blame for the higher costs. One dimension of health care rising costs is simply advancement in new tests and procedures. These new tests and procedures cost money that was not spent previously. People are living longer and thus also contributes to more money being spent in health care. So what do we do?

1. Tort reform. 10% of health care is spent on this area.
2. Remove barriers to competition. Let providers sell across state lines.
3. Anything further is a state issue.

If our federal government would stop trying to solve all problems, the states would be forced to act as they are suppose to. What can work for New York may not work in Idaho, ect.


That's OK for equal opportunity for insurance companies, but doesn't do much for individuals.

Far fetched that all have equal opportunity in separating reality from theory, what with current trends in income/wealth redistribution...upward. People have the right to find or create new solutions to their problems and are not chained to any status quo of the establishment.

..TM7
Yes I see your point TM7. If we address tort and its associated cost impacts on the system and expand competition to lower costs, people don't don’t gain from that! But if we turn over our health care to the government who will force people to buy it, limit the care, raise taxes, increase our federal deficit, undercut the private providers, force everyone on the government plan, provide free health care to illegal aliens, institute panels and committees to address rationing of care, develop a huge federal and bureaucracy, WE the people will be better off. And your model to point to as a reason for us to believe in Obama, is the great Canadian, UK and French systems and our federal governments track record on the robust financial status of Medicare, Medicaid, VA Care and SS!!

What a laugh. I really think all your interested in is lowering the costs out of your pocket book. Damn the country, the people who are happy with their policy and the constitution in the process.

BTW: The White House is revising its deficit projection by another $2 trillion tomorrow! Ya, trust the government.....Apparently Obama's fake stimulus plan is not working like everything else he's done. Not to mention the lies and propaganda this administration and the Axis of Evil have done. But we'll just ignore that and trust them on health care!!!

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Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #263 on: August 26, 2009, 05:49:28 PM »
  BTW: Scootrd..you claim FDR has been rated very high ;) :D ;D ...you know full well..it kinda depends upon WHO is doing the rating  :D :-*

Ironglow I'm on vacation this week so I leave it to you to do the in depth research. But since 1948 to Present FDR has listed in the top  3 across numerous Polls and numerous Polling entities.

Schlesinger 1948 poll rank 3rd
Schlesinger 1962 poll rank  3rd
1982 Murray-Blessing survey of 846 historians  2nd
Chicago Tribune 1982 poll rank  2nd   
Siena 1982 poll rank  1st
Siena 1990 poll rank  1st
Siena 1994 poll rank  1st
Ridings- McIver 1996 poll rank  2nd
CSPAN 1999 poll rank  2rd
Wall Street Journal 2000 poll rank 3rd
Siena 2002 poll rank  1st
Wall Street Journal 2005 3rd
CSPAN 2009 poll rank  3rd

 
Compared to lets say

03    Thomas Jefferson    05    05    04    05    02    03    05    04    07    04    05    04    07
16    Abraham Lincoln     01    01     01    01    03    02    02    01    01    02    02    02    01
26    Roosevelt, Theodore 07   07    05    04    05    05    03    05    04    05    03    05    04
37    Richard Nixon     –     –    –    34    34    28    25    23    32    25    33    26    32    27
40    Ronald Reagan     –     –     –     –    16    22    20    26    10    08    16    06    10
41    George H George H. W. Bush     –     – –      18    31    22    20    21    22    21    18
42    Bill Clinton     –     –     –     –     – –     –     –    16    23    21    24    18    22    15
43    George W. Bush      –     –     –     –    –     –  –     –     –     –    23    19    36

It appears Bush SR and Clinton have moved up in the polls while George W. has slid from 19th in 2005 to 36th out of 44 in 2009
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Online ironglow

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #264 on: August 26, 2009, 11:39:04 PM »
  Again; it depends upon who,what, when and how they ask. ..and who is doing the asking. Polls are only polls, a reflection of what the average person thinks. A few short months ago... by a substantial margin, people may have thought BHO would do a fabulous job as prez, they know better now..or should.
   If he gets his way though..he may not rank high as a president, but may start with a new ranking as our first dictator !

    ...'Nuff said.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #265 on: August 27, 2009, 01:23:20 AM »
Well hey Scoot, Stallin is very popular on Russia still too. There are alot of socialists in America, I am not one and do not support socialism. Hey just admit what you are? Its not illegal to be a sociaist here.


FDR was the beguinning of socialism in America, I would imagine he is very popular with the parasitic lazy socialist crowd, of which we have many of in America.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #266 on: August 27, 2009, 01:53:56 AM »
This is a socialist plan, plain and simple. The people that work, will pay for the ones that don't, illegals included. And the eletists that run this country, have their own health plan. And retirement plan. I have a feeling that they might just have a harder time passing this than they thought. These town meetings and 912 rally's are putting a fly in the ointment. I have think when congress comes back into session in a couple weeks, there might just be some changes made. Maybe some of them actually sat down and read the bill.  gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #267 on: August 27, 2009, 02:18:28 AM »
Most people do not study history.  They only parrot what they are told by their history teachers and the media.  If people would study history and economics they would not vote Democrat for sure, they would probably vote Libertarian or Constitution parties.  Republicans have two camps, the old Rockafela Republicans and the new Right Wing Christians.  So the polls are not a good indicator of who and what was popular or is popular.  Most economists say now that FDR made the depression last longer.  We had 5-6 depressions in the 1800's but they only lasted from a few weeks to a few months and everything was back and running.  Only when the government started monkeying with the economy through the creation of the Federal Reserve and spending did things get worse.  Also, if you give incentives to bring factories and industry back home, get the Feds out of the way of drilling and building nuclear power plants will we ever see the economy expand.  I have seen where the oil companies are investing millions into algae research and development.  Exxon said they should have algae oil in production by 2020.  No government program, just free market solutions. 

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #268 on: August 27, 2009, 04:12:08 AM »
.

Gypsyman...I agree Congress should be in the same HC and SS programs as all the rest of us.
..TM7

Don't count on it. They know the program will be a train wreck and they don't want their health care to suffer. Heath care reform to the Liberlas means lowering the quaility for those who have it today so we can give health care to those who don't have it today. If you were in congress, why would you want your familiy in this plan???
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Obama Care summerised
« Reply #269 on: August 27, 2009, 04:24:08 AM »
they have made themselves elite , not a good sign .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !