250 Gr. or 300 or ?

[flmason]

Was looking at one manual for a drop breech model. Suggested bullet weights, velocities and energy for 100 gr. of powder are:

Bullet  Vel.  Energy

250     1871  1943
275     1764  1900
300     1698  1921

All are .50 caliber.

Based on the velocity and energy, I'm leaning toward the 250 gr. bullet.  However the 300 is very similar in energy and I'd hope have a little more penetration? Not quite sure how to rate that. But the additional velocity (assuming the bullet can hold onto it) would seem to give the 250 gr. bullet a flatter trajectory. Seems like a good thing to me, LOL!

Is 250 gr. sufficient at these velocities for anything larger than deer? Out to what range?

I'm assuming for the most part I'd never really take a shot at more than 100 yrds. 200 at absolute outside.

No doubt I'll end up with several molds, but would be interested in everyone's opinions.

[flintlock]

Let your rifle tell you...

My Knight won't group 250 Barnes MZ but loves the 300s and 100grs of Goex...
She doesn't like 300 SSTs but loves 250s...
She doesn't care for either 250 or 300 .452 Hornady XTPs...
She doesn't like 395 Powerbelts...

So, I use the 250gr SSTs over bean fields because they shoot flater than the 300gr Barnes...

[flmason]

Forgive my ignorance here. Cap and Ball is my primary BP experience...

Is 250 gr. considered adequate for North American Big game? Out to what range?

I've read BP guns use considerably heavier bullets for the same game vrs. smokeless. Which I can see is pretty true. No doubt velocity being the differentiator. Still trying to come to grips with what are "standard" game loads with these sort of guns.

[rangerwillie]

depends greatly on the game...  when you say north american game, that could be anywhere from cyotes or other smaller critters up to moose and brown bear.  the avg hunter chasing whitetale will find a 250gr bullet will do anything needed to do.  in your first post about the difference between 250gr and 300gr, assuming both shoot accurately.  the 300gr bullet will likely have better BC and carry its energy further, so even tho it starts out with slightly less energy than the 250gr projectile, it will retain its energy down range to the target.  another factor left out with larger projectiles is the momentum factor.  this is the reason i consider a 300gr bullet to be small..  it will do more than anything i need, but i still prefer something big, this way im not worried about a shoulder shot, or what angle the deer is facing.  i can simply point at the vitals and shoot, letting the bullet do the rest.  that being said, there is still nothing wrong with a 250gr bullet and an 80gr charge of powder, as long as one knows the trajectory of his bullet!

[coop2564]

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=718709

I would shoot any game animal in North America with this bullet! 285gr barnes spitfire, shoots flat, hits hard and pentration is the best!

[flmason]

depends greatly on the game...  when you say north american game, that could be anywhere from cyotes or other smaller critters up to moose and brown bear.  the avg hunter chasing whitetale will find a 250gr bullet will do anything needed to do.  in your first post about the difference between 250gr and 300gr, assuming both shoot accurately.  the 300gr bullet will likely have better BC and carry its energy further, so even tho it starts out with slightly less energy than the 250gr projectile, it will retain its energy down range to the target.  another factor left out with larger projectiles is the momentum factor.  this is the reason i consider a 300gr bullet to be small..  it will do more than anything i need, but i still prefer something big, this way im not worried about a shoulder shot, or what angle the deer is facing.  i can simply point at the vitals and shoot, letting the bullet do the rest.  that being said, there is still nothing wrong with a 250gr bullet and an 80gr charge of powder, as long as one knows the trajectory of his bullet!

Yeah, sort of my thoughts too. Haven't been able top come up with range vrs. drop vrs. retained energy charts for these guns. Been trying to estimate by using .45-70 or .50-70 cartridge data.  But both of those use *way* heavier bullets. 405 gr. just for starters. 500 gr. seems more realistic. But... less than typical modern charge levels 70 gr BP vrs. 100-150 these days.

Looks to me like any ol' .30-30 really can outperform these guns ballistically, for the most part, unless you are firing volley at the army across the way, LOL! OTOH, .50 caliber Plains Rifles were the hot technology at one time too. So will clearly do the job, if I do mine, as they say.

[flmason]

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=718709

I would shoot any game animal in North America with this bullet! 285gr barnes spitfire, shoots flat, hits hard and pentration is the best!

The lead free option certainly looks interesting. Definitely can see where the idea of penetration absolving one of worrying about angle, bones, etc. could be very beneficial.

[rangerwillie]

flmanson, my go to load for any of my 50's is a 500gr or my 590gr cast bullets over 70gr pyrodex P

[flmason]

flmanson, my go to load for any of my 50's is a 500gr or my 590gr cast bullets over 70gr pyrodex P

Wow, I'll bet that has a trajectory like a mortar (i.e. rainbow). Which is not to say it won't do the job. 

So how did you arrive at those figures?

Have to admit, I'm steeped in the land of smokeless magnum handgun loadings, so this is a bit new of an area for me to be looking at.

Kind of dawned on me last night that a 250 gr. load in a .50 at say nominally 1700 fps isn't too terribly more potent than a stiff .44 mag load. Had me thinking a scoped Redhawk might could compete with that. Been a few years, would have to go double check the charts, but Busta's loads giving him 2200+ fps might have .44 beat.

But... compared to my Cap and Ball revolver, no doubt the .50 is head and shoulders above.

[rangerwillie]

it wasn't that i arraived at any particular figures, just shot different loads and found that one to be most accurate and luckily economical too.  i dont shoot 200 or 300yards so trajectory isn't an issue

[Semisane]

Hey Rangerwillie, what mold do you use?  Do you size it, or use it as cast?  Can you post a picture of the bullet?

[rangerwillie]

molds can be made at www.mountainmolds.com and yes, i do size them



bullet on left weighs 445gr, middle is 495gr and last is 590gr

[Semisane]

Thanks!

[toytruck]

molds can be made at www.mountainmolds.com and yes, i do size them



bullet on left weighs 445gr, middle is 495gr and last is 590gr

Last three deer I killed with the .504 White Super 91 were taken with the 495gr. trashcan, very simular to your middle conical.  Talk about DRT, knocks them on their butts!!

[rangerwillie]

cant argue with those results