Author Topic: hornady xtp construction/reliability (Read 1388 times)

Strongbox · « **on:** August 02, 2009, 02:11:41 PM »

Is the Hornady XTP bullet----45 cal-240 grain hollowpoint---constructed well enough to remain in one piece at 2000/2400 fps in a smokeless muzzleloader? If not, I would appreciate any recommendations. I am trying to find a reasonably priced bullet that performs well. I know that Barnes and several other bullet makers produce such a bullet but they are sorta pricey. Thanks in advance

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** August 02, 2009, 02:35:03 PM »

The 240gr XTP-Mag #45220 is, Hodgdon shows it loaded to 2254fps MV in the 460S&W.

Tim

matthewquigley · « **Reply #2 on:** August 02, 2009, 05:37:44 PM »

i have a savage ml-10 use a 300 standard 45 cal xtp 44 grains 5744 250 xtps are ok on whitetails i went to 300 grain barnes MZ i love mine i have killed deer from 12 ft to 300+ yards all were one shot stops

go to randywakeman.com lots of articles to help with it!

cwlongshot · « **Reply #3 on:** August 02, 2009, 11:56:09 PM »

I agree with Tim, choose the "MAG" version of these excellent PISTOL bullets for carbine, rifle and BP uses. I haven't used the 44 version much myself, but my good friend and my pop does. I use the 45 XTP MAGs in both my 45C, 454 Casull and my H&R BP. If there is no "MAG" available (357Mag/maxi)look for the "FP" versions. These are also rated at higher velocities.

CW

matthewquigley · « **Reply #4 on:** August 03, 2009, 03:07:50 PM »

guys the mags are NOT as accurate in a savage ml-10 and after hitting 20+deer with 'em @ 2100-2300 fps the std 250 and 300 are way overkill on whitetails
i have shot near 60 plus combinations from a savage and they are fun but they never liked the 240 250 300 gr mag versions,

in handguns and rifles the mags are ok BUT from a savage ml10 and its rate of twist and speed std is ok

Lone Star · « **Reply #5 on:** August 04, 2009, 06:26:13 PM »

The .45 XTP-MAG versions were designed for use in the .454 Casull, as the standard XTPs tended to deform in the forcing cone, damaging the barrel. There are only two XTP-MAG versions, the 240 and the 300. Both have thicker jackets than the standard versions and carry the jacket past the front edge of the HP - but the Speer tech couldn't tell me if the cores were harder too. For handgun use I prefer the standard XTPs at velocities under 1300 fps as the MAGs seem to be too hard.

At 2000+ fps you'll definately want the MAG versions since the maximum recommended speed for the standard XTPs is only 1700 fps. It is no wonder they caused too much damage on deer when driven at 2300 fps. It is always best to choose the correct bullet for its intended use.

.

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #6 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:39:21 AM »

Has anyone bothered to call and ask Hornady to confirm this stuff, or is this all BS and conjecture?

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #7 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:57:50 AM »

Okay, I had the time, so I called Hornady, and asked a tech about this stuff. The obturation is caused by using standard XTP's, and was, indeed, wrecking forcing cones when they started loading then in guns like the .454. This is why the XTP Mag. was brought out. It has almost DOUBLE the jacket thickness of a regular XTP.

When I asked about the velocities recommended for these bullets, I was told the 240, 250 and 300 gr. bullets would expand properly at as little as 650fps.. Same for the .38 cal. 180 gr., which can be run up to 1800 fps.

v-man · « **Reply #8 on:** August 05, 2009, 10:43:51 AM »

Every box of XTP's I buy has a little chart in it detailing th min/max optimum velocities for XTP's in each caliber and weight. It is also in their catalog and I believe on their web site.

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #9 on:** August 05, 2009, 11:01:28 AM »

I just got the little load data labels.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2009, 05:19:47 PM »

I've used XTP's in 357 and 44 mag, 45 Colt and 454 Casull. They just plain work! For hot 45 loads in a rifle, I use the Mag version as well as in my 454 rifles. Use the right weight for the game you are hunting and you will have no problems. DP

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2009, 05:27:46 PM »

The .357 XTP's will take some further testing for me. They didn't open up enough to suit me wen fired into hard wood. I need to do some phone book testing.

Lone Star · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2009, 11:35:38 PM »

Hard wood is no test of the expansion properties of a hollowpoint. These bullets rely on the compression of fluids to open up, and dry hardwood is kinda light on fluids. Shooting into water-filled jugs is poor also, since hide and lung tissue are certainly not all water. Wet newsprint is a better compromise, but it is not that great either....

The truth is that the only real test of bullet expansion is in game animals. Even then, bullets which work great through the lungs may not work well if required to pass through a leg bone or the diaphram. We have to take the best compromise we can, including passing up angling shots if our bullets may stop short due to their construction or velocity.

.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2009, 11:38:15 PM »

What bullet was this? What barrel legnth? What was velocity at impact? Also, Wood isnt a very good relyable test medium.

Plastic milk jugs filled with water and lined up work as do saturated newspaper/phone books. But be sure to completely submerge and allow to soalk for some time or dry spots will spoil the results.

CW

Grumulkin · « **Reply #14 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:29:55 AM »

You guys agonize way too much over a few hundred fps velocity either way, whether a bullet expands or whether it doesn't, and on and on. Now we're worried about "overkill;" there is no such thing. If you put a hole in an animal's vital organs it will die whether the hole is small or whether it's big. If the hole is big, it will die faster. If a bullet comes apart in the vital organs there are more holes and the animal will die faster. A deer isn't that hard to kill.

The above bullet did a one shot bang flop kill on an Impala when fired from a 460 S&W Magnum. I'm not about to call it overkill and I'm not about to call it bullet failure.

Hornady XTP bullets are good, by the way. I used 158 grain versions in a 357 Herret to take several animals including a Black Wildebeest and they worked just fine. Use whatever version you like on deer and they'll work fine.

243dave · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2009, 03:32:39 AM »

I cut my teeth on the 300gr xtp standard and mag versions when I got my 45 winchester trapper. I shoot them around 1600fps out of the 16" barrel. On the small 100lb whitetail I generally shoot I prefer the mag version. They both kill well but I once shot a deer with the standard version at about 75yds quartering away. It ran off with out leaving a blood trail, it took me about 2hrs to find. The bullet landed back in middle of the ribs and broke the offside shoulder. I recovered the bullet under the hide and it mushroomed out beautifully(maybe too big). I'm not saying the xtp failed, it didn't. But the reason I chose 300gr bullets is to ensure exit wounds, and the 300gr xtp mag does this even when the bullet travels length-wise. One thing I've noticed about the 300gr xtp mag is that many times when fired into phonebooks it doesn't expand at all but when they land on deer they leave nice exit wounds, so maybe they expand on deer, maybe they don't, either way I'm happy with the results. In my opinion if you always want exit wounds and shoot over 1500fps use the xtp mags, they are a accurate,tough and a affordable bullet. Dave

Doug B. · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2009, 04:19:23 AM »

Dave....What are you pushing the 300 gr. with?

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #17 on:** August 06, 2009, 07:10:16 AM »

Probably H-110.

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #18 on:** August 06, 2009, 07:12:00 AM »

Quote from: Lone Star on August 05, 2009, 11:35:38 PM

Hard wood is no test of the expansion properties of a hollowpoint. These bullets rely on the compression of fluids to open up, and dry hardwood is kinda light on fluids. Shooting into water-filled jugs is poor also, since hide and lung tissue are certainly not all water. Wet newsprint is a better compromise, but it is not that great either....

The truth is that the only real test of bullet expansion is in game animals. Even then, bullets which work great through the lungs may not work well if required to pass through a leg bone or the diaphram. We have to take the best compromise we can, including passing up angling shots if our bullets may stop short due to their construction or velocity.

.

The purpose of my testing is to make clean kills.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #19 on:** August 06, 2009, 07:16:23 AM »

grumulkin , I agree with that .
Seems some blame poor shot placement on everything but the shooter .

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #20 on:** August 06, 2009, 07:46:50 AM »

I realise that a perfectly placed shot will kill every time; I simply want to make sure that I get as clean a kill as possible as quickly as possible, and if I don't place my shot well, I want my bullet to make as big a hole and do as much damage as possible.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #21 on:** August 06, 2009, 07:58:43 AM »

I have been hunting for over 40 years and feel there are well placed shots . The only perfect shots are the ones that did bang flop no matter the placement . I have destoryed the heart in a deer and watched it run some distance and shot one a bit to far back ( gut shot) and watched it drop in its tracks and never move - which was the perfect shot ?
Your serch for the best bullet is a good thing but on white tail deer most any good expanding bullet will work with good placement of the bullet . My point is no amount of expanding or magnamizing will make up for poor shot placement enough of the time to be depended on .

243dave · « **Reply #22 on:** August 06, 2009, 08:30:36 AM »

Doug B., Travis got it right, its H-110. I shoot the 300 grainers with 23grs of it.(THIS IS SLIGHTLY ABOVE ANY BOOKS MAX LOAD FOR A JACKETED 300gr BULLET, START LOW AND ALWAYS WORK UP) I don't have a chrony so when I say I'm gett'n 1600fps its just a guess. SHOOTALL, I sure do understand what you mean about the bag flops being the perfect shot. But I gotta say I don't like missing my mark. If I spine one when I'm trying to double lung it even though it does fall right there in a heap, I feel like I nearly missed. I guess for me the perfect shot is hitting where I aim. Even if it does run I know it won't go far and it will leave a blood trail a blindman can follow. This year I'm gonna start using some cast bullets of my own, hopefully they will kill as well as the 300gr xtp mag---but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #23 on:** August 06, 2009, 08:40:03 AM »

You know guys, I'm gonna 'fess up here. I really don't shoot a whole lot of animals. Yes, I hunt. I just have gotten to the point where I enjoy looking at animals doin' their thing more than I do killing them. I'll still pop a coyote when I see one, and I still go hunting, but the largest part of my shooting is either practicing or teaching. I practice enough that I know that when I squeeze off a shot at an animal, it's gonna hit pretty damn close to where I want it to.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** August 06, 2009, 09:05:18 AM »

Yep !
good luck with the self made bullets , I have been lucky enough to cast ML bullets and take both turkey and deer with them . Did it with a TC kit i put togather . Seems the more you have to do to make the shot the more feeling of accomplishment you can gain .

243dave · « **Reply #25 on:** August 06, 2009, 09:12:49 AM »

Grumulkin, which xtp is in the picture, a xtp or a xtp mag ? I had a regular 300gr xtp look just like that after it smashed two shoulders of a small whitetail. Of course I can't drive'em near what the 460 can. Dave

243dave · « **Reply #26 on:** August 06, 2009, 09:21:38 AM »

Yeah, the only reason I decided to try my luck at casting is for that feeling of accomplishment. Hopefully it'll work out, if it does I guess next I'll have to make my own blackpowder !

Grumulkin · « **Reply #27 on:** August 06, 2009, 05:58:25 PM »

Quote from: 243dave on August 06, 2009, 09:12:49 AM

Grumulkin, which xtp is in the picture, a xtp or a xtp mag ? I had a regular 300gr xtp look just like that after it smashed two shoulders of a small whitetail. Of course I can't drive'em near what the 460 can. Dave

The bullet above that fragmented was a Hornady 250 gr. .45 caliber SST/ML bullet.

The above two bullets were 158 gr. Hornady XTP bullets shot into a Black Wildebeest with a 357 Herrett.

frankkj · « **Reply #28 on:** August 06, 2009, 06:13:00 PM »

OK, I'll open a can of worms again. This is a pet peeve of mine. I agree with Grumuklin 100%!

What the heck is OVERKILL?

Last I checked, dead was dead, that's all.

Frank

v-man · « **Reply #29 on:** August 06, 2009, 08:37:09 PM »

Frank, After many years of hearing "overkill" comments on several different sites I've pretty much concluded that overkill is what happens when I kill a deer with a gun someone else doesn't like. If it isn't the gun/caliber they prefer it must be wrong.