Author Topic: 7 mag problems (Read 1058 times)

bodab · « **on:** August 03, 2009, 03:16:17 PM »

Setup: Ruger hawkeye, zeiss scope.
Rest: Lead Sled
2 to 3" groups(3 shot) @100 yrds.
around 8" groups @ 300 yrds with little to no wind.
The 300 yrd groups are all about 3 to 4" low but they are SPAN about 8" from left to right.
I am useing lee dies, FL sizing die using Barnes TSX 120 gr bullet with 73grs of H4831 and H4831SC
Please help..should I TRY a more heavy bullet or change bullets or change powder? also if this helps I plan on shooting deer with the biggest deer going around 150 pounds. also feel free to ask all the questions you need to be able to give me a better idea of what i need to do

Swampman · « **Reply #1 on:** August 03, 2009, 03:29:13 PM »

How does it shoot with factory ammo?

victorcharlie · « **Reply #2 on:** August 03, 2009, 03:42:56 PM »

I think I'd try a heavier bullet.......

billy_56081 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 03, 2009, 03:51:19 PM »

Little or no wind? That was my first guess. Might be your rifle doesnt like those Barnes bullets. Also try giving that rifle a good cleaning it should shoot much beter than 2 to 3 inches at 100 yards. I would clean the barrel first and try it, if that didn't work I'd try remounting the scope, after that I would replacethescope with one you know is good. Each of these tries I would try at least 3 different loads. Try some 120's 139's and 150's.

Swampman · « **Reply #4 on:** August 03, 2009, 03:53:08 PM »

I'd run a box of factory 150 grain Remington Core-Lokts through it. If you clean it, it won't group until you run another 5-6 rounds through it to get the barrel dirty.

bodab · « **Reply #5 on:** August 03, 2009, 04:10:19 PM »

I've tryed it with a clean barrel, I use butches bore shine, also its a ruger with ruger rings and I already tried that, Ive checked everything and its all tight! also I can just about rule the scope out, I know anything is possible but is a pretty new zeiss! and now for the one thing i havent tried...factory ammo..so far i'm guessing i'll go up to a 140 grn bullet!

Autorim · « **Reply #6 on:** August 03, 2009, 04:56:42 PM »

I agree with cleaning. I would use a good ammonia based solvent or other good copper cleaner. The Outer's electronic foul out will clean down to the steel. I had one 7mm Weatherby that only began to shoot after a thorough cleaning. The barrel was badly fouled when I bought it and I discovered that only by alternating between a copper solvent and a good carbon cleaning agent could I get it really clean.

I don't shoot Barnes bullets, but I read that they do tend to foul more - may be true or not. I have found that just because a barrel looks clean doesn't mean it is clean.

Personally, I would try Nosler or Sierra 140's or some good factory load after cleaning.

yooper77 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 03, 2009, 05:54:29 PM »

Assuming the rifle, mount and scope are not the problem.

My guess it’s the Barnes bullets. These bullets are funny sometimes; I personally do not use them, since I don’t have the need for a no-lead bullet.

That’s the whole thing about trying to find the right bullet/powder load.

Have you shot it with any other reloads or factory?

I would try a Hornady 139 or 154 grain Interlock with the same powder.

yooper77

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #8 on:** August 03, 2009, 06:05:35 PM »

My pals are real 7mm mag. fans. they use a combo of I4350 and Nosler BTBT. they are quite accurate in all their 7 mags. and they have about a half dozen between them.

wncchester · « **Reply #9 on:** August 04, 2009, 03:28:04 AM »

Change bullets. I've seen it many times, tell you of the most recent. I load for my pastor's 7 mag., first bought 500 (bulk packaged) 150 Rem SPCL for him and a son in law. They both shoot about 5 moa with several powders and charge levels...nuts!

Preacher tried some 175 gr Rem factory and they shot just under moa. I was offered a few 130 red tip Noslers to try; they shoot just as well as the rem factory stuff, and into the same group too!

Moral; Choice of bullet is the single most important thing for accuracy.

crash87 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 04, 2009, 04:15:58 AM »

Yep, Try different bullets. My own 700 Rem 7mm, shot X bullets all over the place, not that there a bad bullet, it just takes to long and to many of them + primers + powder + fiddling with overall length etc, to find a load that groups. Can get rather frustrating, as I think you are finding out. Smallish deer out to long range, if you are set on 120's try Noslers BT, contrary to some of the opinions it isn't to fragile i.e. it does work and is very accurate. BUT, a 140 will serve your needs better.
A 139gr Hornady Interlock is by far the best 7mm deer bullet ever made. (Think I might have some experience with that one?) CRASH87

HL · « **Reply #11 on:** August 04, 2009, 08:04:20 AM »

My 7mag shoots 160's the best. Never could get 120's or 140's to do worth a darn.

bodab · « **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2009, 12:49:58 PM »

thinks for all the help, i'm going to cabelas this week and i think i'm going to try the nosler BT.. i'm guessing i'll start in the 140's.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2009, 12:51:49 PM »

Nosler Btips are often a very accurate bullet.

Swampman · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2009, 01:48:03 PM »

I wouldn't use them on game.

Autorim · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2009, 03:48:50 PM »

I would give the Nosler 160 Accubond a serious test.

yooper77 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2009, 07:09:15 PM »

The .284 caliber 120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets hold together very well and will down deer efficiently every time. Most ballistic tip bullets are very frangible, but not the 284 caliber 120 grain ones they are magical.

I personally would start with 139/140 grains to 150/160 grains; I bet the later will be the most accurate. If that doesn’t work I would go to 175 grains.

I don’t know anything about Zeiss scopes. I only use Leopold’s VX-II or VX-3’s, well worth the money and superior to others in its class.

yooper77

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #17 on:** August 05, 2009, 09:02:38 AM »

Lateral stringing is, IMHO, a problem with the shooter. Videotape yourself shooting and or have a buddy watch you shoot. Probably something to do with your form or you're fingering the trigger. Is one of your elbows, arms, or shoulders sore? Back hurting or tight on one side?

bolewine · « **Reply #18 on:** August 05, 2009, 10:24:30 AM »

I have a very accurate load for my weatherby in 7mm rem mag it’s a nosler partition 150gr behind 69gr hodgdon h-1000 winchester brass and primer. as far as the accubond I had bad results. Shot a pig at 35yds on the shoulder pig ran away! The only thing I could think of was the bullets shattered at that velocity and range, switched to a partition and have had excellent results ever since recovered bullets are almost 95% intact which means dead piggy. This load shoots sub moa a 200yds, good luck!

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #19 on:** August 05, 2009, 11:21:59 AM »

A Hornady SST might work even better and cheaper.

bodab · « **Reply #20 on:** August 08, 2009, 03:04:46 AM »

Quote from: Autorim on August 04, 2009, 03:48:50 PM

I would give the Nosler 160 Accubond a serious test.

I picked up a box of accubond 140's and they group a lot better then the barnes(120gr)..it could be the bullet or the extra weight BUT i was doing some reading and i am wondering if the accubond will just pass through and not do the damage it needs to do to make a clean kill. I was also reading so reviews on the Hornady SST and they seem to break up too early and do lots of damage to the meat..I WILL not be going back to the barnes bullets simply b\c of the price, the nosler is about 8$ cheaper! what about the BT hunting bullet from nosler? anyone have any luck with it?

Val · « **Reply #21 on:** August 08, 2009, 03:46:31 AM »

According to the Barnes manual you are 2 grains over the max with 73 grains of H4831. In addition, 120 grain bullets are pretty light for a 7mm mag, although there's no reason that you can't get them to shoot. Did you go through a proper load development effort? Starting at a low powder charge and work up in .5 grain increment? The Barnes TSX are pretty good bullets and seemed to have solved the problems that reloaders had with previous Barnes offering. You may want to try heavier bullets. If you don't live in the Republik of Kalifornistan and don't have to use lead bullets I would try leaded bullets such as Nosler Accubonds.

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #22 on:** August 08, 2009, 08:27:40 AM »

bodab, Over the years we have used all of the bullets you mentioned but the Barnes. Last fall I took an elk, with a 200 grain Acc. from my .300 wea. It was an instant kill, but the bullet was not recovered. Horn. are fine, have used both the interlock and old soft pt. For deer any of the the Horn., Serria, or Nosler BT will be fine in my opinion. I have shot alot of elk, with the bullets in question, but really prefer a Nosler Part. for serious elk hunting. I go every year and have a couple excellent spots that will produce sooner or later, plus elk hunting doesn't excite me much, so I can pick my shots. We used the 140 grain BTBT in 7 mags. on coyotes, antelope, mule deer, whitetailed deer, elk, caribou, and moose. All were killed quickly and cleanly. Now on the larger game, the shots were broadside or nearly broadside lung shots or heart shots, so penetration was NOT an issue. If I were developing a load or loads for a new 7mm mag. my preference would be either 140 BTBT for deer and similar game, and either 140 or 160 Nosler Part. for all heavy game. With a bit of load juggling you may get both to shoot close enough to use them with a single sight setting. While there are many new bullets on the market, they are all trying to do what the Nosler Part. did 50 years ago. They are good, but I have NEVER had a Nosler part. fail to act as they are designed to do. Not that they can't blow off the nose, but if the back still hold up, it will do the job.

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #23 on:** August 08, 2009, 10:34:34 AM »

Get ya some Rem CorLokt bullets. Cheap to buy and hell on game. Good expansion and weight retention.

I think some of these "premium" bullets are only premium in price. Of course that's my opinion and most others will vary!

Oh yeah, Some rifles need a lot of bearing surface contact to shoot where ya want them on a regular basis, too. I've owned one or two like this and it have ya jerking hair pretty quick!

HWD

bodab · « **Reply #24 on:** August 08, 2009, 02:35:29 PM »

I think i'm going to try the 140 nosler BT. also the barnes would group about in a 5" circle at 300 yrds with a rem 700. Ive never shot 300 yrds on paper. how bad is a 5" group at 300 yrds?

JustaShooter · « **Reply #25 on:** August 08, 2009, 02:48:35 PM »

Quote from: bodab on August 08, 2009, 02:35:29 PM

how bad is a 5" group at 300 yrds?

Well, a 5" group at 300 is about like a 1 5/8" group at 100 - just divide the group size by 3 to get a comparison. So, it's not great, but not bad for hunting ammo.

Just a Shooter

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #26 on:** August 08, 2009, 03:58:28 PM »

Quote from: bodab on August 08, 2009, 02:35:29 PM

I think i'm going to try the 140 nosler BT. also the barnes would group about in a 5" circle at 300 yrds with a rem 700. Ive never shot 300 yrds on paper. how bad is a 5" group at 300 yrds?

Dead Elk.

preventec47 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 22, 2009, 01:35:23 PM »

Original Poster---
It is a crying shame you couldnt get the 120 gr Barnes to work out for you but imop
you were acting like a fickle woman! joking of course. but come on. 5" group
at 300 yards for a hunting rifle/bullet combo ! ! ! Good grief, that
is a small cantelope or in other words the size of a deer heart. You should have
gone with the Barnes 120 as I bet it was blistering hot at about 3550 fps
and due to the tough construction that stays together, you can use a 20 grain lighter
bullet to have the same retained bullet weight when recovered.
What a super flat trajectory you would have had.
PLUS... and this is what I like ever since I switched to nothing but 120 gr bullets in
my 7mm Rem Mag is it shoots like a pussycat. Compared to the old kick it
felt like a puny 223 or something. REALLY SWEET. For what it is worth,
I settled on Sierra ProHunter 120s most of the time although I had some
Nosler BT in 120's. I just thought the Noslers would be too fragile
but I am glad to hear someone here thinks they are tough enough.

Seriously, Barnes are not known for superior accuracy but 5" at 300 yards
is awesome with those bullets. I know this is an old thread but I hope you see
it and can tell us what you finally wound up doing. Also would like to know
where you got your original load data of 73 grains. DAMN that must have
been a smokin hot round. OH how long is your barrel. Hey get a chrono
and tell us what is going on.
Thanks