New 223 - fore end mounting lug questions

[watkibe]

My new 223 Handi Rifle only does 1.5 to 2 inches at 100 yards. While trying to learn about improving the accuracy I found lots of posts about things to do to the fore end, including the rubber washer trick. So I got to looking at my rifle with the stock off, and I noticed that the bottom of the fore end mounting lug is not parallel to the barrel. Shouldn't it be ? The other thing is that the hole in the stock is a little off of center with the hole in the lug. The countersink is generous enough that the screw head slides down into it, exerting pressure on the fore end toward the receiver. Again, it seems like a defect, but I wonder if it could be intentional, to seat the fore end snugly against the receiver. Anyway, I put in the rubber washer tonight, I'll see what happens. The barrel still touches the fore end at both ends, but not as tightly.

What does the lug on yours look like ? Any comments, please ?

[quickdtoo]

Welcome! Spend some time reading in the FAQs and Help sticky, lots of info there to help achieve excellent accuracy there. 

Tim

[LaOtto222]

What Tim is trying to say delicately (he is such a good guy!) (I, on the other hand have no problems telling you what's what)- you need to experiment to find what works for you. You are going to have to find what works, no one can tell you what, will work. There are plenty of ideas in the FAQ section. Roll up your sleeves and start to work, this is unfortunate, but that is just the way it is. You will just have to try different things until you find what works. As has been suggested before; just do one thing at a time, so if it makes the problem worse, you can undo it.

These are production guns, not fine works of art - so lugs are not going to be always straight, or square or what ever. If any of these conditions exist that effect accuracy, then they are easily corrected. This does not always work, but in general I have found that the barrel must be tight on lock up and a little loose when not -you will have to find out yourself what works. I do wish you Luck and Good Shooting as well.

[OBXPilgrim]

If you shoot it without the forend on it (just like in the FAQ), and it shoots much better, guess what - it doesn't like the fit of that forend.

[LaOtto222]

Excellent point!!!

[zoner]

like the man said,one thing at a time is the way to go...it's also the best way to evaluate the work that you do....if you change two things at once how will you know which is working?

[watkibe]

I appreciate the input guys, thanks ! Shooting isn't really work though, is it ? So it will be a pleasant job figuring it out. Taking off the fore end and putting the front sand bag under the receiver end of the barrel seems like the first step. I have worked up and tested several loads so far, so I will compare the revious performance with groups shot without the fore end and see if work there will be productive.
Thanks again, this looks like a great forum, and the pics of people's project guns are awesome ! Makes me want to try one myself.

[watkibe]

I shot it today with the fore end off. A load that had previously given groups of 2.0-2.5" went into a nice 1" symmetrical triangle. Very gratifying ! It seems the fore end is the culprit. I put it back on (with the rubber washer on the mounting lug this time) and shot 3 more groups with loads I have been working on. They pretty much gave the same performance groupwise as before, so the washer didn't help. All of the groups with the fore end on (any load) are similar: 2 shots in an inch or less, and the third a flyer, 1.0-1.5 inches away.
It seems like putting a shim under the fore end would be the next thing to try, since it's non-destructive and reversible. The last thing would be to sand out the very tip of the fore end to free float the barrel I guess.

So what do you think ? Am I going about this the right way ?

[mitch132]

So what do you think ? Am I going about this the right way ?

I would say so. Take time, do one thing at a time, and rule out the easy, non-permanent fixes first is good advise for many applications. Keep up the good work and it will pay off eventually.

[watkibe]

I did some more research here today, and then I made a trip to Ace hardware. I picked up a nylon washer, 3/8 ID x 3/4 OD x 1/8 thick, and a 1/4-20 x 1/4 set screw. The washer is a perfect fit around the mounting lug, and thick enough that the barrel is completely free floated. Then, I put the set screw in the bottom of the mounting hole and adjusted it so that the mounting screw bottoms out about 1/8th of a turn past finger tight, and then Loctited it in place. Afterwords I made sure to clean the Loctite off the treads above the set screw so the mounting screw doesn't get locked in.

It went together slicker than owl sweat. If it works like I hope it does, I will be proud of myself !

[LaOtto222]

If that does do the trick for you, see if the barrel is tight when not locked up. I found that you want it a little loose when the barrel is open - of course it needs to be locked up tight when closed.

[watkibe]

Thanks LaOtto222 ! What do you mean by loose ? Do you mean that it is easy to move up and down once it's open ?

[quickdtoo]

See Forend Fit in the Accurizing section of the FAQs. 

Tim

[watkibe]

See Forend Fit in the Accurizing section of the FAQs. 

Tim

THANK YOU TIM !!! There is so much info in the FAQ that I missed that bit. I realize that so far in this thread I have neglected to mention that my rifle is a Superlight, so it has a  synthetic stock. The forend seems to fit just as snugly with the washer in place as it did to start with.
And LaOtto222 - It is snug with the action both open and closed. When you say you prefer it a little loose when open, was that with a wood or synthetic stock ?

[quickdtoo]

See Synthetic Forend Floating then, I did it to one of my 243 Superlights, worked great as long as I don't shoot more than two shots at a time!! 

Tim

[LaOtto222]

Loose means that; yes it easily moves up and down - with a little side to side movement; until lock up. I prefer that it is tight both open and closed - it makes the gun feel more solid to me...but I found that when it is loose when open it shoots better, generally, but not always. Nothing can be easy. When I say loose when open, it applies to both synthetic and wood. Synthetic fore ends are harder to work on but can be done. Think of the fore end off the barrel there is no pressure of the fore end against the frame - same when it is locked up no pressure against the frame...that makes it more consistent from shot to shot. By making the fore end loose it is more like no fore end on the gun. As suggested, see Tim's fix for synthetic fore ends in the FAQ

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,125356.msg1098443204.html#msg1098443204

[watkibe]

See Synthetic Forend Floating then, I did it to one of my 243 Superlights, worked great as long as I don't shoot more than two shots at a time!! 

Tim

Well that's depressing, lol ! That looks just like my groups ! For hunting, 2 shots should be enough though...

[watkibe]

Loose means that; yes it easily moves up and down - with a little side to side movement; until lock up. I prefer that it is tight both open and closed - it makes the gun feel more solid to me....By making the fore end loose it is more like no fore end on the gun. As suggested, see Tim's fix for synthetic fore ends in the FAQ

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,125356.msg1098443204.html#msg1098443204

More thanks are due to Tim and LaOtto222 ! The synthetic forend thread describes something very similar to what I have done (but haven't tested it by shooting yet). I put the nylon spacer around the lug instead of in the lug mounting pocket, but seems to do the same thing. The set screw in the mounting hole makes for the same pressure every time. Can't wait to shoot it .