Author Topic: Help! .303 case head seperation (Read 4000 times)

czvz · « **on:** August 08, 2009, 04:59:28 PM »

Shot some reloads today... and got the dreaded case head separation in my Lee/Enfield today.
How do I get the remainder of the casing out of the chamber?

Victor3 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 08, 2009, 10:14:08 PM »

If you don't want to buy a broken case extractor, you can make a tool out of a steel rod to get it out.

What I've done in the past is grind a 45 degree angle on the end of a long 1/8" diameter soft steel rod. Carefully dig the point under the broken shell, and force the rod in until it collapses the shell enough so that it falls out.

Be careful not to damage the chamber, and go buy yourself a longer bolt head that headspaces the cartrige correctly.

Mikey · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2009, 12:56:22 AM »

Usually, once the rifle cools, the case should fall out. If not, I just use a small screwdriver to basically dig it out. I do not try and get underneath the broken case but rather put the round shaft of the screwdriver blade against the case mouth with the blade or a corner of the blade inside the case and it usually levers right out.

You can also try wrapping some screening wire (aluminum or brass) tightly around a jig, push it into the barrel from the muzzle end and that often catches the case mouth enough to bring it out. HTH.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #3 on:** August 09, 2009, 04:47:49 AM »

A good bronze .30 caliber bore brush inserted from the breech into the case neck and withdrawn will usually do it, if not try a .45 caliber brush inserted just into the case body. Getting the case off the brush may be a challenge.

BBF · « **Reply #4 on:** August 09, 2009, 08:24:05 AM »

You can cut the case lenghtwise off the brush

shotgun31 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 09, 2009, 01:16:02 PM »

Now that sounds like the voice of experience!

Shotgun

Curtis · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2009, 03:49:14 PM »

I've only had one case head separation and the bore brush trick worked like a champ to get the remains out of the chamber.

Curtis

Happy · « **Reply #7 on:** August 11, 2009, 10:51:59 AM »

Now it the time to neck size with the Lee Collet die or other if not already . Saves your brass from forming that nice shinny ring up from the base .
Once I had the case extractor bought, and the ringed cases out of the reloading pile- and started to neck size , I was once again a happy Camper- no longer needing the extractor.
I am sure every one turned and laughed when they first saw my face as the bolt opened, and out came just a little peice of case.
You now can say your an experianced enflield shooter .

Happy trails
Happy

silver surfer · « **Reply #8 on:** August 11, 2009, 02:22:32 PM »

CZVZ,
If you can please provide some more details as to what happened. Info like how many times your brass has been reloaded, what is the powder charge and primers, are the brass neck sized or full length sized, even bore diameter we might be able to help you more.

As a rule of thumb case head separation is due to improper head spacing. A refurbished Enfield can be reassembled with the wrong bolt face and cause this. I don't beleive it common, but it is possible. More details would certainly help narrow down the possibilities.

If this case head separation is a concern to you, go to a military surplus store, Brownell's.Com, etc. and order a .30 cal broken shell case extraction tool, I personally prefer the M-60 Mach. Gun model (heavier design). It'll serve your needs for a lifetime.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 11, 2009, 04:20:27 PM »

Quote from: Curtis on August 10, 2009, 03:49:14 PM

I've only had one case head separation and the bore brush trick worked like a champ to get the remains out of the chamber.

Curtis

+1 on the brush. This worked perfectly with my one separation.

beerbelly · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2009, 03:29:02 AM »

Happy,
I use the Lee neck sizing die and I still have the shinny band on my brass. I have not had a head separation as yet, but my brass has only been reloaded six times.
I took one case and cut it in half long ways. It looked just fine. So I don't know how many reloads I will get from this bach of brass.
I have read that a long chamber will do this as well.
Beerbelly

czvz · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2009, 07:17:51 AM »

I was using Remington Brass previously necksized... and may have either twice fired or four times fired... not sure.... but I am sure the last resize was neck sized only. The gun is a Rifle no.1 mk3... my understanding is that I can't change out the bolt head/face like a no. 4, can anyone verify? Oh, I did get the case out! Many thanx for all the help and advice!

blackpowderbill · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2009, 12:41:10 PM »

Using Rem and Win brass I have had occasional trouble with case failures. Now I only use HXP (Greek) brass and have had no trouble since. BTW I only size about one half of the neck.

Curtis · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2009, 01:43:14 PM »

As beerbelly alluded to an overlong chamber can do it and that happens to be my problem. I bought a (used) barrel for my Thompson Contender pistol rechambered for 7-30 Waters and evidently whoever did the rechamber botched it. My chamber is 0,030" too long.

The problem is that with spec dimensioned brass the first firing is enough to stretch the brass in the web area. After that, neck sizing will give a few more firings but you may still have the occasional head separation to deal with. Some actions deal with escaping gasses better than others so I cannot advise how unsafe it might be to continue to have separations. It's not a good thing in any case.

Since I form my own brass from 30-30, I can compensate by putting the shoulder out further with my form and trim die at the very start. I don't know if that is any help in your situation though. One possibility would be to make some light forming loads with fast powder and try to seat the bullet into the lands. This would force the case to the very back of the chamber and blow the shouulder forward instead of stretching the brass at the web. This is just food for thought though, I do not advise this course of action. Buy or borrow a no-go and a field gauge and check your head space. If it is indeed a head space issue I'd address that issue instead of trying to compensate.

Curtis

Mikey · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2009, 04:03:02 PM »

czvz: lots of those SMLEs have large chambers to allow for continued functioning under adverse conditions and the British did not worry about reloading their brass.

Also, the SMLEs have removable bolt heads and there are at least 3 different lengths. Each bolt head is marked with a number, (I believe) either 1,2 or 3, with the higher numbers being longer by about .001". You can usually find boltheads at SARCO, SAMCO, or Gun Parts America. I have a No4 Mk1 that gives me exactly 3 reloads per case before head separation and I have a number 1 bolthead on that rifle. I should follow my own advice........

gstewart44 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 14, 2009, 04:06:42 AM »

I have a No4Mk1 with a generous chamber. Also have a P14 with a slightly less generous chamber. When I started reloading I got the Lee neck sizer collet die for the 303. I use Remington brass for the No4 and remington nickle plated for the p14.

I have 400 brass between both and have reloaded each at least 6 times. No separations on any yet, and no signs that are worriesome.

gandog56 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 15, 2009, 12:29:04 PM »

Stuff happens. A .303 broken shell extractor resides in my range bag. Along with my 7.62X54R and 7.62X39 broken shell extractors.

Hate getting to the range and not being able to get a barrel warm!

Victor3 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 16, 2009, 12:42:22 AM »

Quote from: Curtis on August 13, 2009, 01:43:14 PM

Some actions deal with escaping gasses better than others so I cannot advise how unsafe it might be to continue to have separations. It's not a good thing in any case.

My Dad kept a pair of old dusty prescription glasses on a shelf above his reloading bench when I was a boy. One time he took them down and showed them to me. They had some 'stuff' splattered into the plastic frame. Pops said it was from a case failure, and the glasses were there to remind him that he could have lost an eye.

Happy · « **Reply #18 on:** August 16, 2009, 06:15:21 AM »

The 303 B had oversized chambers and it is a good idea to have them guaged for head space when you get them .
I had a Mark four and had no problems once I started to neck size. It was a british made gun rebuilt in Surry BC (Canada )and buy the looks of the barrel saw little use . With stout loads I enjoyed about five to six loadings , then I usually got cheap once fired brass to start and imperial pulled bullets , so it was a cheap gun to shoot.
It shot groups just over MOA and one day a chap at the range just had to have it . With regret I have not found another with a good of barrel since .

gunnut69 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 18, 2009, 06:34:49 AM »

HY guys. The problem you're experiencing is probably not headspace which on the 303 is from the front of the rim seat to the bolt face, but rather likely an overlong chamber. The solution is partial sizing(just until the shoulder is kissed but not set back or neck sizing.. The enfields almost always have generous headspace also but the seperations are most often a seperate issue..

Cottage Hill Bill · « **Reply #20 on:** August 18, 2009, 08:53:20 AM »

CZVZ - You are correct about the No1 MkIII bolt heads being different from the No4 Mk1. The No4 rifle had bolt heads that were numbered 0-3. These numbers really represent only a notional idea of the size. In reality there is a lot of overlap in the heads from different makers. There was a lengthy discussion about this on one of the dedicated Enfield forums about a year ago. There were different size bolt heads for the No1 rifles but they weren't marked and the only way to find one is to measure the headspace, figure out what size bolt head you need and sit down with a box full of bolt heads and a micrometer and start measuring until you find the one you need. That is exactly what British armourers did when repairing an Enfield. They had one thing we don't, the box full of bolt heads.

I have over fifty Enfields of several different models from all of the makers and made from 1896 to 1968. I have never had one with a significant headspace problem. The one key to case life is to segregate your brass by rifle and neck size only. You'll find that different brands give you different amounts of reloads. Sellior & Belloit seems to be the shortest lived with 2-3 reloads and Greek HXP the longest with some folks getting 10-12 reloads. Your mileage may vary. A lot depends on how hot your reloads are and the condition of your specific rifle. Chamber tolerances varied a great deal on Enfields depending on which factory made them and when they were making them. Understandably during war time production quality slipped a bit especially in the factories that were being bombed.

Go on ebay or anywhere else you can find on and buy a broken case extractor. They are less than $20 and are a must have for anyone who shots an Enfield. The bore brush trick will work in a pinch. The other methods that were recommended are a recipe for ruining a chamber.

Mikey · « **Reply #21 on:** August 19, 2009, 01:20:44 AM »

I think that if I were to purchase another SMLE I would have it rebarrelled. The No4 Mk1 I purchased in 1966 is a US made rifle that never saw military action but has that smae overly generous chamber that definately shortens my case life. I also had that rifle sporterized 40 years ago and since it gets me 3/4" groups at 100m I will leave it alone.

But, I have another No4 Mk1 that was rebuilt or re-arsenalled at Faserkly (?) and although it shoots well it is still mil-spec. I might get another of the 'no-gunsmithing mounts to see how she groups with a scope but I might also send it out for a nice new .311 barrel with a tighter chamber. The Montana Rifleman will rebarrel a SMLE in its original caliber and headspace it properly. Might cost less overall than all the gizzies you need to save, recover brass, etc. Just another thought...

moorepower · « **Reply #22 on:** November 30, 2009, 11:00:09 AM »

Brass will not last long if loaded near the top end of the load chart.

Brithunter · « **Reply #23 on:** December 01, 2009, 03:40:39 AM »

Hmmm I see lot's of quoted stuff here on this thread unfortunately not all of it is correct

If you use Modern American made brass you will get head seperations sooner or later as the brass is undersized to begin with. If you don't believe me go and measure your Winchester, R.P and Federal 303 British brass around the web area and it will measure 0.450" or there abouts instead of the correct 0.455" and that means the brass has to move 0.005" just to reach the size it should have been before firing and of course the chamber is slightly bigger so if you size it down then each and every time you fire and re-size you moving the brass 0.005" add the stretching and voila case head seperation.

I believe a huge part of the problem is the SAMMI specifications which for some reason are different from the British specifications and the cartridge is a British design so surely it would make sense to adopt it's original design specs not make some up of your own?

Although I have loaded some Winchester and R.P brass my ususal .303 brass is HXP 69 and I have yet to see a seperation from my handloads. I have seen them with poorly made WW2 ammo

. in fact this ammo I stopped shooting as it was cracking about 1 in 3 cases and accuracy was terrible. It was of Winchester manufacture. With Milsurp ammo the way it's stored long term seems to have huge effects on it's performance. I brought some 1960s South African made 303 in Bandoliers and it's awful .......... click ................bang stuff. Yet some 1944 D1 ammo I have shoots well and reliably

I have also as yet to find a .303 rifle with bad headspace, I did have a 1916 made BSA No1 Mk111 here the shoulder was a bit further forward than it's compaion also a BSA made 1916 No1 Mk111 bother were sporterised by Parker-Hale one had served with the Australians and the other with New Zealanders before being converted ( I have neither now as they were sold when I was unemployed some years ago now

). The .303 rifle I have with the weirdest chamber/shoulder profile is a Belgian made Martini carbine that was made for the Omani's

.

moorepower · « **Reply #24 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:07:07 PM »

My case life goes up several rounds per case if I drop down from max loads 100-150 fps with my #4

Langfur Buchsen · « **Reply #25 on:** January 07, 2010, 11:50:12 PM »

as stated by others, the combination of military chambers, moderately full loads and undersize brass doesn't help.... but - if people didn't "fully" full-length resize, and only sized enough of the cartridge case to securely hold the next projectile loading, the brass would retain much of its "fire-formed" size and would not get worked as severely

IME case-head separations are caused by excessive sizing which flows the barss forward from the case head

hope this helps

mauserand9mm · « **Reply #26 on:** November 12, 2010, 01:20:24 PM »

I have a case extractor for my 8mm and have used it twice. The 8x57 case tends to stretch fairly quickly since it only has has a short weak shoulder (where it headspaces). I tend to through out cases as the bright ring (incipent head separation) starts to appear. With everyting else I reload this is not an issue and the cases usually end up cracking at the neck.

Head separations are not as bad as blowback or pierced primers as far as gas coming back into your face - I've experienced head separations and blowback in my Turk 1903 Mauser. I never felt the gas on the separations but did on the blowbacks. The blowbacks came from steel cased Romanian ammo - these are lightly loaded and don't always expand the case against the chamber walls fully and the gas leaks back.

I also evidenced a pierced primer in an M14 many yeas ago. It blew the magazine out of the rifle as well as the floor plate out of the magazine. Funnily enough nothing was damaged (bit of soot on the rounds that were in the magazine) - it all went back together okay. I was shooting on line next to the rifle that did this - we were shooting prone and I got a blast of dirt and dust on the side of my face that was facing him when it happened.

BBF · « **Reply #27 on:** November 12, 2010, 06:51:10 PM »

Mikey:
I could be oversimplifying this somewhat. Could a gunsmith not remove enough metal on the action side to allow the barrel to be rotated 360 degrees and then recut the chamber to the proper size?

Mikey · « **Reply #28 on:** November 13, 2010, 01:01:10 AM »

Scatterbrain: if you were to go that route it would probably cost you just about the same amount of $ in gunsmithing work as it might to have a new barrel installed. A gunsmith could remove the barrel, cut back the chamber area and try to re-cut the chamber but I'm not so sure that would work. The SMLE's are known to have generous chambers, which is why case neck resizing is so effective in maintaining case life for those old rifles, but I think a gunsmith would have difficulty re-cutting a 'generous' chamber to 'spec' - he would probably have to cut the chamber area off and re-cut a new chamber and that would leave you with a shorter barrel by a couple of inches.

Just for the hay of it youmight want to think of contacting someone like the Montana Rifleman or HART Barrels (Syracuse, NY) and see what it would take to rebarrel the rifle and compare that to what the gunsmith would charge you. Good luck, and let us know....

BBF · « **Reply #29 on:** November 13, 2010, 04:00:36 AM »

I don't have one of those Enfields. I do know that at least up here in Canada a new in the white barrel will set you back several hundred $ .

I'm lucky to have an OF for a gunsmith here that doesn't have any kids to put thru college and his rates are very reasonable.