Author Topic: This is likely the wrong place to be asking this, but..... (Read 2942 times)

1894cfan · « **on:** August 08, 2009, 07:29:40 PM »

What is the best/most effecive 12 guage shotgun load out of a 18" barrel for home defense? I currently have #6 2 3/4 loads loaded. TIA

Mikey · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2009, 12:46:28 AM »

#4 Buckshot.

John R. · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2009, 06:36:41 AM »

I like #1 buckshot, with a couple of slugs in the side-saddle.

BBF · « **Reply #3 on:** August 09, 2009, 08:19:08 AM »

with Mikey on that one.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #4 on:** August 09, 2009, 08:48:57 AM »

If you live in and appartment building, or have family members scattered through the house, I would stick with the #6 bird shot - deadly at close range, where most self defense shootings take place, but not as apt to penitrate walls and injure unintended targets. You are not going to be taking shots past about 25-30 yards in this setting.

Now, if you live in the country, or have no kids scattered thru the house, then #4 or larger buckshot would work well, with a few slugs as back-up, in case it leads to a heavy cover - distance situation. Just remember, its a lot easier to claim self defense shooting someone in your bedroom at 3am then it is, say, in an extended gun battle outside your home at longer distances in a parking lot..... More then a few courts have held that once the immediate use of force to defend life is over, and you have the oppertunity to safely escape, and you continue to persue the persons involved, and to use deadly force, the claim of self defense becomes in-valid.

Larry

rockbilly · « **Reply #5 on:** August 09, 2009, 12:47:28 PM »

I recently seen a demonstration with a solid rubber slug. It will kill someone close up, but out 20-25 feet will only deliver a brusing blow that should convince most to STOP. For safety reasons I have been thinking of buying some, loading the gun with the normal 00 Buck, and putting a rubber slug in the chamber, It may prevent doing something I would be sorry for later, like shooting a grandson who had slipped in because he had too much to drink, this happened to a friend, he nearly went crazy after killing the boy.

I know most people say that won't happen to me, but it can! Like the cop that recently shot his wife in Ohio after being aroused by her coming through a window while he was half-a-sleep, it can happen. Generally, you are sound asleep wake up and respond without being fully aware of the situation.

I am not opposed at busting a bad guy's butt, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

BBF · « **Reply #6 on:** August 11, 2009, 06:43:40 AM »

drunk grandson sneaking in or a wife(

) coming thru the window,............... fine state of affairs IMO
Bigeasy: A lot of jurisdictions see it that way and so do I.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #7 on:** August 11, 2009, 08:01:53 AM »

this has been ask and answered many times
the best answer was on here and they posted a link

# one..........my dads old favorite
#1 is the smallest size that will give 12inches penetration reliably
#1 being the smaller gives more hits...or probable hits
this link alco got into the total surface area of the holes
while still giving the FBI required penatration

so the question is ''THE'' best......blanket question

i thought ooo tripple ot was dumb....only 8 pellets
then i tried it.....my gun loves it 16 inch pattern at 100ft
you gun may be different

your bird shot might suit your needs better than any buckshot

i would make a choice and stay with it
don't want to fumble with different shells under stress
if it ever happens

tripper · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2009, 08:00:38 AM »

Maybe houses around here are realy small but I don't see anyone being able to shoot more then 30 -40 ft. with in a house without shooting through a wall. And as was mentioned, once the perp makes a run for it you longer have a self defence condition. At in house range I think heavier bird shot would do fine. Lets face it, at 20 to 40 ft. there will not be much spread to the pattern.

v-man · « **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2009, 09:43:56 AM »

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm
You gotta check out "the box o truth" site and see the mulitude of penetration tests he has done. Sheetrock walls stop nothing and birdshot makes an ugly wound but not enough penetration. I find it fascinating and hope someone else does to.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2009, 09:52:38 AM »

I used to live out in a rural area and kept my mini14 ready as well as the 12 g shotgun loaded with #1 buckshot. The #1 gave the best patterns out to 40 yds with my mosssberg. Kept two slugs in a side saddle as backup.

I have since moved into a suburb and the mini14 stays secure. The mossberg now is stoked with #6 birdshot/turkey loads. At 20 ft it shreds a fist size hole in the target. Any closer and the pellets become in effect, a slug. They stay tight out to 30 yds which is longer than any hall in my house.

As others have said your load will depend upon where you live and what kind of construction is in the walls.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 12, 2009, 09:57:41 AM »

Quote from: v-man on August 12, 2009, 09:43:56 AM

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm
You gotta check out "the box o truth" site and see the mulitude of penetration tests he has done. Sheetrock walls stop nothing and birdshot makes an ugly wound but not enough penetration. I find it fascinating and hope someone else does to.

Thanks for the link to that site....good info I am going to have rethink a little.....

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #12 on:** August 12, 2009, 10:05:42 AM »

00 buck , #1 is hard to come by lately. Bird shot makes no sense to me . If every shot you know you will make is a center chest shot across a double bed then maybe . If you need to shoot thru. a door , wall or other obstruction you are screwed . If you wait to figure out safe lanes of fire after the attack starts again you are screwed . If you live in an apartment with only 2 layers of 3/8 sheetrock between you and next door then maybe a 12 ga. ain't the best choice maybe . There is a site called in the box where they test shotgun loads going thru. sheetrock and its worth watching if it is still up. Be warned if you watch it you might switch to buck. I have had 2 instructors warm not to use bird shot , they both say they can put a fist thru. a sheetrock wall but not a chest so why would they want to use a load to shoot someone that needs stopping with a load that won't go thru. a sheetrock wall .

Bigeasy · « **Reply #13 on:** August 12, 2009, 02:19:37 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on August 12, 2009, 10:05:42 AM

I have had 2 instructors warm not to use bird shot , they both say they can put a fist thru. a sheetrock wall but not a chest so why would they want to use a load to shoot someone that needs stopping with a load that won't go thru. a sheetrock wall .

I'm not sure about this comparison, but I would gladly take a strong mans best punch to the chest instead of a load of #6's at 20 feet........ Or go ahead and shoot a penetrating load, like a 9mm fmj, into a sand bag. Goes in about 2 -3 inches and stops. The same round will penetrate a human torso thru and thru almost every time.....So..

Larry

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2009, 03:12:49 AM »

Bigeasy , i admited up front across a double bed it might work ok but add any obstruction and the bets off . I have seen a friend shot at 15 yards with 7.5 shot and got little more than a good stinging due to carhartt bibs and leather boots .Seems a guy was rabbit hunting near our construction trl. and didn't notice my friend drive up and get out to go in the trl. for material about when the dogs run the rabbit by the steps of the trl. If the attacker was wearing a heavy leather coat or carhartt work coat i don't want to take the chance . BTW saw a man hit another in the chest once and kill him , didn't go thru. though .
Bird shot to a 9mm bullet i don't know either .
My point is be ready for worst case .

Old Griz · « **Reply #15 on:** September 06, 2009, 10:24:33 PM »

If bird shot will not penetrate a sheet rock wall, it will not penetrate a human far enough to hit any vital organs. The last Mossburg catalog had an article where they tested this. Less than 2 inches of penetration at 5 feet. The result was, bird shot is fine -- if attacked by pigeons. If your life is on the line, then #4 BUCKshot is the smallest. There is a reason why the police use 00 buck. The bad guy might have on a jacket, he will probably be moving, he can duck behind furniture, etc., etc., etc., and you sure don't want wimpy little bird shot. If he stands there perfectly still and lets you shoot him in the face . . . well, that ain't gonna happen. The guy slightly wounded by bird shot will blow you away.

BBF · « **Reply #16 on:** September 07, 2009, 10:25:25 AM »

Since that birdshot is still pretty much one lump of lead at close range, wouldn't the impact alone knock the intruder on his keester without any significant penetration?

Old Griz · « **Reply #17 on:** September 07, 2009, 11:48:27 AM »

But it's not one solid mass (lump) of lead or that would be a slug. It's a bunch of tiny individual pieces of lead. The result is a lot different.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #18 on:** September 07, 2009, 12:50:10 PM »

like i said.....#1 is the best.....performance wise

12 gage IN the home.....any thing will work

bird shot is safer...that might make it ''BEST''

slugs have more range..that might make it best
but then you just have a short range rifle
but inside you home......they all will pattern and shoot like a slug
a slug can pass between and arm and torso.....total miss.....shot and its a hit

i like ANY buck shot just #1 the best
but it is harder to find and probly not worth the trouble
the difference within your home are insignifegent
get whats on sale so you can get more of it

i am totally against switching shells under stress buck,slug non-lethal ect
pick a load and stay with it and practice with it
i used to load my revolver with 2 birdshot loads
for snakes or a face shot in a carjacking etc
but decided it was more to think about if i was realy attacked

LouisianaMan · « **Reply #19 on:** September 08, 2009, 03:06:24 PM »

Buckshot.
When I patterned my 11-87 one day with different loads, I got a great feeling for recoil, pattern density, and range with the several loads. To me, that's the ONLY way to choose.

For 12 gauge, I'm happy with #1 or #4, depending on the layout of the house, distance to neighbors, etc. If ranges may be somewhat longer, and overpenetration isn't an issue, 0, 00, or even 000 might be in order, but I think of them primarily for hunting. (Legal here in LA for deer.) Recoil is more severe and pattern too tight for my taste on potential indoor shots under 50 feet or so.

I use a 20 gauge now. It has #2 or #3, I forget which is in the 2 3/4" shells I use. The 3" shells have the other size, but I find I stroke the action far quicker, smoother, and more reliably with the 2 3/4". Also, the thump of a 3" shell in a lightweight 20 ga. is not what I want to deal with in a crisis, whereas follow-up shots with 2 3/4" are far easier.

So, IMO you should forget birdshot (unless in an apartment) and see which buckshot feels best & patterns like you want, in your gun.

trotterlg · « **Reply #20 on:** September 08, 2009, 07:01:12 PM »

If you shoot anyone with any shotgun load under 30 feet away, he will forget all about what he was intending to do before he got shot. Unless someone sent a Ninja assign to kill you, you will have succeeded in deterring him. Larry

williamlayton · « **Reply #21 on:** September 08, 2009, 10:44:51 PM »

I have been keeping up with this and find it interesting.
My situation requires no concern for penetration---brick house and no children.
I use Buck.
I am really thinking about a 410 and buck.
Blessings

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #22 on:** September 09, 2009, 02:19:24 AM »

WL, winchester has a 3 inch shell with 5 - 000 buck at 1200 fps , i have killed deer when only one 000 buck hit it . Out to 35-40 yards that load might work if you get a good hit , keep in mind that buck shot is more effective with multi hits , the more shot you send toward the target the more possible hits you can expect . in a house not as much an issue really . Unless you live in a wharehouse size home .

45-70.gov · « **Reply #23 on:** September 09, 2009, 04:25:11 AM »

Quote from: williamlayton on September 08, 2009, 10:44:51 PM

I have been keeping up with this and find it interesting.
My situation requires no concern for penetration---brick house and no children.
I use Buck.
I am really thinking about a 410 and buck.
Blessings

get a 20 ga if your concerned with recoil
unless your considering the tarus judge

but i am sure the 410 will work fine too
i like shooting my 410s just the smaller ammo cost more
and that ruins my fun

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** September 09, 2009, 04:44:29 AM »

O F Mossberg makes a 410 pump with the last few inches increases to 12 ga . guess for intimidation or something .

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #25 on:** September 09, 2009, 04:51:21 AM »

Has anyone checked the penetration of Turkey loads or Goose loads with Hevishot? Wonder if it would be better than birdshot, but not as powerful as #1 buckshot?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** September 09, 2009, 04:56:50 AM »

t or f heavi-shot might be good but then you are getting close to 4 buck

williamlayton · « **Reply #27 on:** September 09, 2009, 11:59:15 AM »

I am close to living in a warehouse most of the time--according to the Hen.
Reason for the thinking on the 410 is it is a lot easier too wield in close quarters and I like sooting them thangs.
I always am thinking of screwy ideas.
Blessings

45-70.gov · « **Reply #28 on:** September 10, 2009, 04:30:05 AM »

mossberg makes the home defence as mentioned
it also has a pistol grip pump if you like that sorta thing

i like junior moedel guns
they are compact but managable [i am only 5-7]
the little bantom mossburg pump 410 is cheap at walmart
i have one of those
=======================================

except for the cost
have you looked at that load called
''dead coyote''
50 pellets of some heavy shot

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #29 on:** September 10, 2009, 08:07:23 AM »

got some dead cot... before it went to over $40.00 a box of 10 . A box of buck is still under$5.00 for 5 , do the math .